mdhc500 Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I have seen this thread or ones similar to it before, but they all seem unanswered or at least unresolved, so please read and hang with me! I am having an issue here... I tore the Shee down a month or so ago to strip and paint the frame. I marked all connections carfully, and made notes as to what went where? I got it all back together this weekend and yep you got it, it did'nt start! Mother F*%#er... All the plugs were cleaned out and re-connected with dielectric grease. The spots on the frame where the ground wire goes was sanded to bare metal. All the plugs were plugged into the plug they came from... What I know... Its getting fuel/air, the plugs are wet after you kick it a few times... And I verified I am not getting spark because I held onto the plug as I kicked it over... Its a 2006 motor with like 10 hours on it, so I doubt the stator is bad. The bike ran 100% and started on the first kick before this rebuild. Does anyone know of a way to rule out each possible variable one at a time? I did read BenB's electrical FAQ, but I am a retard when it comes to electrical stuff... Any pointers would be good, as I am just about ready to take it to a shop that does electrical stuff. Thanks in advance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okbeast Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Well if you read the electrical FAQ i dont see why you're asking this? You're just going to get most of the same stuff as what is on there right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdhc500 Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I was hoping for some easier to understand tips/tricks... If not, well there is always the repair shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okbeast Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Well nothing with electrical is easy but don't you think learning it would be better then getting ass-raped by a shop? 1st check and re-check all your wiring, connections, wires, etc. Then check the stator and coil for resistance according to what is probably written in the FAQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Well nothing with electrical is easy but don't you think learning it would be better then getting ass-raped by a shop? 1st check and re-check all your wiring, connections, wires, etc. Then check the stator and coil for resistance according to what is probably written in the FAQ. Check the pickup coil gap for the flywheel. There is a ground on the rear end at the voltage regulator. is the kill switch and key switch both still on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdhc500 Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Check the pickup coil gap for the flywheel. There is a ground on the rear end at the voltage regulator. is the kill switch and key switch both still on it? The stator cover never came off so the gap did not change I would not guess??? The key switch has been removed and the red and black wires have been joined. It has an aftermarket kill switch installed, it is a closed circuit switch and its tapped into the plug/harness that goes down the handlebars to a plug under the gas tank. It somehow has the swtich on the bars disabled as you could flick it back and forth before and the engine would not die... The kill switch was the only way to kill the motor. And no.... I dont want to get ass raped at $59 per hour by a shop, BUT I also want to ride! I am soon nearing my technical abilities as far as what I am able to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okbeast Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Pickup gap can still change, had it happen on a few bikes for some reason, check it. Also take 30 mins. to learn how to check the electrical, obviously it would be worth it and pay for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Did you change anything electrically while it was apart, like this kill switch setup? The handlebar kill switches have problems where the contact wall inside breaks and the switch does not make contact anymore. Most of the time thats why they quit working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdhc500 Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Did you change anything electrically while it was apart, like this kill switch setup? The handlebar kill switches have problems where the contact wall inside breaks and the switch does not make contact anymore. Most of the time thats why they quit working. No, I did not change anything with other than re-taping it to the harness that goes to the plug under the gas tnak. Is there wa way to test that switch like twisting the wire together since it runs in the closed position? okbeast Posted Today, 11:02 AM Pickup gap can still change, had it happen on a few bikes for some reason, check it. Also take 30 mins. to learn how to check the electrical, obviously it would be worth it and pay for itself. How can it move? I take it back, I did have the stator cover off when I added the new stainless hardware... I spun the flywheel around a few times by hand... Where do I look to see the pickup gap? Is this the thing that should be a matchbook cover thickness in clearance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBB Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 The kill switch circuit should be open when it's set to "run" (or for a tether when you have the tether in, or the button not pressed if it's a pushbutton...or black/white NOT connected to black in any case, when the two make a complete circuit it tells the CDI not to spark)...make sure black/white isn't grounded or spliced into black anywhere that could be it. You can disregard the TORS stuff, yes it could be the stator they just go sometimes, could be the CDI, could be wiring/connectors, could be pickup coil...but I'd definitely make sure that kill switch is set up right first, if black/white touches frame or ground or the black wire anywhere in the harness it'll tell the CDI not to fire. Good luck, check that out and post back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdhc500 Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 The kill switch circuit should be open when it's set to "run" (or for a tether when you have the tether in, or the button not pressed if it's a pushbutton...or black/white NOT connected to black in any case, when the two make a complete circuit it tells the CDI not to spark)...make sure black/white isn't grounded or spliced into black anywhere that could be it. You can disregard the TORS stuff, yes it could be the stator they just go sometimes, could be the CDI, could be wiring/connectors, could be pickup coil...but I'd definitely make sure that kill switch is set up right first, if black/white touches frame or ground or the black wire anywhere in the harness it'll tell the CDI not to fire. Good luck, check that out and post back... Will do... Its a K&S, Inc cheapo kill tether. When the red cap is on the housing it pushes a button it. They say when the circuit is closed it should run, and when the cap is pulled the switch opens and it should kill the engine. The bike was 100% before I tore it down, I really hope the coil, cdi, or stator just went out on it... I did do some re-taping and routing on the kill switch and the plastic housing cracked on me when I was re-installing it on the handlebars... I will piss around with it tonight... I do have a multi-meter but will be luck if I can turn it on!!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBB Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Ya definitely take a close look at that wiring, if it's a normally closed switch it would work if it was on the key circuit because that one is closed (red/brown to black) when "on" and open when off. The stock handlebar kill switch is just the opposite; when black/white is NOT connected to black it runs, when black/white is grounded to black it kills it. I had one of those tethers for a while, bumped it with my knee I guess going through some whoops and it killed the motor but didn't pop off so I didn't know that's what did it, was thrashing around switching to reserve and kicking like crazy while half the pack passed me...that sucked haha! Not sure if you're gonna disconnect it and see if you have spark or just check the wire colors it goes to, but you can use that multi-meter to tell you if it works by opening or closing the circuit: Set it to check continuity, it might have a symbol like this "->|" instead of like 1000V or 100V or whatever. If you take the red and black leads from the meter and touch them together it should make a noise (some do anyway) or the display will change to reflect that you DO have continuity between leads (this means power, or actually electrons can flow from the red lead to the black one). If you took a single wire (or even a coathanger) and stuck one lead on each end of it, it should do the same thing and tell you that you have continuity because power can flow through it. IF it doesn't have a setting for that you can use resistance instead, it'll say like 1000 Ohms or just the Omega symbol (upside down "U"), and you just look at the display to see if a number shows up; it should be blank or all 0's when the red and black leads aren't touching, when you do touch them together it should instantly give you a number, doesn't really matter what the number is in this case you just want to see if power can flow through it, so a number means it can. Ok so to test your switch take the two wires loose and wrap the bare wires around each of the meter's test leads and see what it does with and without the tether on there. If you have continuity (the meter squeaks or displays some non-zero number when set to read ohms) when the tether is on, that tells you that the switch operates by completing the circuit between the two wires, in this case if you had it hooked up to the key switch red/brown and black wires it would work ok because it would tell the CDI to fire when you have the tether on and when it breaks the circuit between red/brown and black it tells it to shut off (in this case you should have no continuity when you pull the tether off, if not then the tether switch itself is prolly jacked). Conversely if you have continuity when the tether is off, it means that the switch operates by keeping the circuit open and (hopefully) when you pull the tether it WILL have continuity; that is the type you need for the kill circuit, the switch's ground should go to the black wire and the switch's "hot" should go to your black/white wire. Hope that made some sense man, good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdhc500 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Ya definitely take a close look at that wiring, if it's a normally closed switch it would work if it was on the key circuit because that one is closed (red/brown to black) when "on" and open when off. The stock handlebar kill switch is just the opposite; when black/white is NOT connected to black it runs, when black/white is grounded to black it kills it. I had one of those tethers for a while, bumped it with my knee I guess going through some whoops and it killed the motor but didn't pop off so I didn't know that's what did it, was thrashing around switching to reserve and kicking like crazy while half the pack passed me...that sucked haha! Not sure if you're gonna disconnect it and see if you have spark or just check the wire colors it goes to, but you can use that multi-meter to tell you if it works by opening or closing the circuit: Set it to check continuity, it might have a symbol like this "->|" instead of like 1000V or 100V or whatever. If you take the red and black leads from the meter and touch them together it should make a noise (some do anyway) or the display will change to reflect that you DO have continuity between leads (this means power, or actually electrons can flow from the red lead to the black one). If you took a single wire (or even a coathanger) and stuck one lead on each end of it, it should do the same thing and tell you that you have continuity because power can flow through it. IF it doesn't have a setting for that you can use resistance instead, it'll say like 1000 Ohms or just the Omega symbol (upside down "U"), and you just look at the display to see if a number shows up; it should be blank or all 0's when the red and black leads aren't touching, when you do touch them together it should instantly give you a number, doesn't really matter what the number is in this case you just want to see if power can flow through it, so a number means it can. Ok so to test your switch take the two wires loose and wrap the bare wires around each of the meter's test leads and see what it does with and without the tether on there. If you have continuity (the meter squeaks or displays some non-zero number when set to read ohms) when the tether is on, that tells you that the switch operates by completing the circuit between the two wires, in this case if you had it hooked up to the key switch red/brown and black wires it would work ok because it would tell the CDI to fire when you have the tether on and when it breaks the circuit between red/brown and black it tells it to shut off (in this case you should have no continuity when you pull the tether off, if not then the tether switch itself is prolly jacked). Conversely if you have continuity when the tether is off, it means that the switch operates by keeping the circuit open and (hopefully) when you pull the tether it WILL have continuity; that is the type you need for the kill circuit, the switch's ground should go to the black wire and the switch's "hot" should go to your black/white wire. Hope that made some sense man, good luck. Ok... Here is an update after a late night... When the tether switch is on, the circuit is complete and I have continuity. When I pull the cap off the meter stops making noise. So... The kill switch looks ok... I verified I have good ground from the bike through the harness... The handlebar kill switch seems to be by-passed as it always has been since I've owned it... The keyswitch was by-passed as well, but I checked the connection and it looks good as well... I followed the instructions and checked the Ignition coil on the "Stator" its was 18.5 ohms I followed the instructions and checked the Pickup coil and it was 114.3 ohms, the GAP was .018 When I checked the Coil for the spark plugs I get nothing? I put one of the multimeter leads where the black wire goes, and a lead where the orange wire goes and I get not reading? I cleaned the terminals to where they were shining and if I move the MM leads around a bit I see numbers fluctuation on the multimeter but no reading... Also if I put one lead on the oragne terminal of the coil and another in either boot/cap I get no reading??? Does this mean my coil is bad? Am I doing something wrong? How can it just go bad from being removed for a few days and then re-installed??? I have done my homework guys... Can anyone offer some suggestions on the next step? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdhc500 Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Correction... When I put the multimeter leads on the black and orange plugs of the coil I get 00.7 or 00.8, and when I move them around the numbers jump around. When I go boot to boot nothing at all happens on the meter. When I go black or orange to either or boot or any of these combinations I get nothing? I have the coil and meter here at my desk if anyone has anything for me to try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBB Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Ok what color wires is the tether hooked to? Did you try starting it (or check for spark) with the tether off?? Cool your stator & pickup coil is within spec for the ignition system, that part SHOULD work. Don't sweat the coil I've never been able to test one either, your best bet is to have a shop bench test it or swap in a different one, even if it's from a different quad just to check for spark. But first let us know what color wires that tether is hooked to, since it's a closed circuit for "on" and an open circuit for "off", if you have it going to black/white and black wire it's gonna work opposite if how it should... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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