RIPPEN Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Correct me if Iam wrong but Isn't it also a little misleeding to try and compare 2- 28 bored to 30mm mikuni carbs to a single 35 PWK? :shrug: RIPPEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 "V-force reeds on a 9k rpm motor are a joke." That's your exact quote, Snop...how else are we supposed to take that. This is a great thread, very informative...but it seems like any thread like this, you have to add the disclaimer, "your milage may vary...) In other words, what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander. There are a lot of Hard Core drag race guys that would tell you VFs are the best, and they are ALL over 9K motors. to be honest, there are a ton of things I'd love to take to a dyno, TDR reeds on stock cages are one of them, Nology's Silver Spark Plugs are another.... Little things like that. However, same story...works for me, might not work for you.... Good info Snop...wasn't trying to bash your thread, just pointing out what ya said in the first post. That's how I read it and understood it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Well DAJ I re-read it and I did say that, and I apologize. I guess I should have said something more along the lines of: "V-force reeds on these two 9k rpm motors was not as accomodating as stock cages with mid tension carbon tech reeds". I talked to Dan Wade today, and he said what I suspected was right. They dyno tested a set of vforce reeds against a tdr setup in a cheetah alcohol drag motor. The motor lost 6hp with taking out the vforce setup and putting in the tdr setup. The vforce reeds are definitely setup to flow, I am just not convinced a stock cylinder smaller bore motor play, trail, and mx motor needs them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 It's all good... I think if there's one thing we are all learning, there is much more to learn.... It's a balance between trying something new that may or may not work better for your particular setup....or going with what everyone else has tried and true... Often the gamble doesn't pay off....but every once in a while...the house doesn't win!! Good info...fo sho!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRed350x Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Ok, well I am not the one making up stuff here. Its hard to clarify things when you put words in my mouth. I never once said the vf3's are a "joke" as you put several times in capitals and quotations. If you read every post I made, it said the stock cages with carbon tech reeds outperformed them. Then it never said anything like they suck, or they are a joke, or what a piece of shit. We tested them on a 4mill and my ported 350, and the results were the same on both. So its not just a comparison on "my setup" as you put it. One other thing with carbon tech reeds is you can get low, mid, and high tension reeds that you can tailor more towards your engine package and pipes. Besides all that, we weren't talking about stock cages with dual stage carbon reeds. We were talking about stock cages with a set of carbon tech single stage reeds. So, because they do come in different tensions, it will make more of a difference than just slapping in a set of generic petals or cages and hoping for the power increase. It may have been just tested on a dyno, but when those reeds were developed by moto tassinari, they were developed on a dyno. Then they use their dyno testing numbers as a huge marketing tool to sell to people like on this forum. I just simply took the setup and compared it to what other good stuff there is and posted the results after testing on a 3rd party, non-affiliated, accurate crank dyno. If moto tassinari really made a product that was that great, then the bike manufacturers would have sent them a check and dropped that cage design in all the factory bikes they make. So if you run a boost bottle, and I said it made no extra power after testing 2 engines on the dyno, then will you come on here and tell everyone not to listen! Because this was on your setup, and because the manufacturer told you it would make power by just bolting it on your machine. And you can feel the difference. Its your word against the dyno, so people have to think about that. Well I can bolt on a high flow cage that everyone seems to run. It is claims to make more power, and there is dyno testing on it. Or I can fit in a reed petal that can be ordered for the specific range of power I want, and I can try that out instead for 1/3 of the cost. I realize seat of the pants is way more accurate as far as bike feel. But moto tassinari stated an increase, and you probably get an increase. However, you get a greater increase with a different setup from what I have seen. The statement can sometimes only end up being half true. It may make a difference on your machine, but did it just change something, did it make more power, or does it make less power. The dyno is a tool to help decipher that. A good dyno and dyno user knows how to adjust correction factors for load, heat, humidity, etc.... and that's the key to getting accurate results to compare things so you dont just have to bolt stuff on and ride it out in the sand to see what it did or if it made a difference. So lets say if your in the market for carbon tech high tension reed petals, maybe look at trying the vforce setup. But from what I have seen so far, if you want mid reeds, stick with the carbon techs. Actually, in your very first post, the one that started this thread, you said vforce reeds were a joke. You wrote it and I was quoting you directly dude. Here's that quote once again for you. "V-force reeds on a 9k rpm motor are a joke." Go back and re-read YOUR thread. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 that was already taken care of two posts up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Jarod's a little slow....it takes the Internet more time to reach 7500 feet than us sea level folks.... :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csrmel Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 so if i understand this correctly you guys are saying that v force reeds (at $190-$250) are not worth it for trail, mx and dune port motors below 400cc. and they might be worth it if you have an agressive port job and a 40cc+ motor? did i read this thread right or would someone like to correct me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRed350x Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 that was already taken care of two posts up. You also missed what you wrote in your very first post in this thread. Whats your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRed350x Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Jarod's a little slow....it takes the Internet more time to reach 7500 feet than us sea level folks.... :biggrin: So my air is a little thin... :geek: That just means we build em bigger and more powerful to keep up. You guys should bring your stuff up here and see how it runs. :woot: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 You also missed what you wrote in your very first post in this thread. Whats your point? My point is, no matter what some people do and how informative it is. There is always that one guy that has to fight it to the end and say its crap, without just leaving it alone and letting other people form their own opinions. People on here can read, they dont have to thinks it will work or make a difference if they dont want to. So form your opinion, dont worry about my opinion, and keep on living. I dont know of any drag motors that peak at 9k rpm. So I personally dont see any point in running the v-force setup. But hey, thats my opinion, glad I had the oppurtunity to share it with all you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRed350x Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 My point is, no matter what some people do and how informative it is. There is always that one guy that has to fight it to the end and say its crap, without just leaving it alone and letting other people form their own opinions. People on here can read, they dont have to thinks it will work or make a difference if they dont want to. So form your opinion, dont worry about my opinion, and keep on living. I dont know of any drag motors that peak at 9k rpm. So I personally dont see any point in running the v-force setup. But hey, thats my opinion, glad I had the oppurtunity to share it with all you. Sorry snop, wasn't trying to start any crap. Was just looking for clarification of some of your findings and why you said they weren't any good on an engine over 9k rpm. Just saying that maybe on some different setups they perform better. Dont get your panties in a bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 My point is, no matter what some people do and how informative it is. There is always that one guy that has to fight it to the end and say its crap, without just leaving it alone and letting other people form their own opinions. People on here can read, they dont have to thinks it will work or make a difference if they dont want to. So form your opinion, dont worry about my opinion, and keep on living. I dont know of any drag motors that peak at 9k rpm. So I personally dont see any point in running the v-force setup. But hey, thats my opinion, glad I had the oppurtunity to share it with all you. Actually....cub motors peak at or around 9K RPM, that's pretty much why I questioned the VForce thing in the first place.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stroker Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 i have seen 11000 rpm on a banshee with nothing more than DMC alien pipes and a K&N filter is my tacho wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Actually....cub motors peak at or around 9K RPM, that's pretty much why I questioned the VForce thing in the first place.... I have seen a cub motor with pt mids and pro circuits peak at 9k rpm on that dyno also (resleeved with lowered exhaust ports). Im not 100% sure if your only pulling that kind of rpm, that you will need vforce reeds. We wont know until dave swaps a set out though. It seems a little odd that some people take a drag cylinder with an exhaust port that cant be lowered without re-sleeving and bolt on mid range pipes to it. I dont get why they dont go out and try to find a power valve cylinder setup if they want a high flow cylinder that will make bottom-mid power.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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