rubberneck Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Ok, I know that bang for the buck, you cant beat the Cubs for horsepower. Now my question is why dont I see many guys on here with Cheetahs? Is it simply the cost, or do they not really perform that much better than a Cub. I am building a dune bike, and it seems as though the cheetah would be ideal for that situation due to the powervalves. I guess the real question, is how much difference do the powervalves make? Has anybody had both and care to share some info? Based on the little I have searched on the Cheetahs, it would seem that it would cost about double what a Cub would. Does that sound about right? Also, where is the best place to get Cheetah cylinders? I see trinity advertising them all the time, but would rather chop off my left nut than buy from them. Does FAST carry the cheetah? I didn't see it on their site. I want to gather as much info as I can before I start calling them. I know they are busy. Based on how many people are so happy with their work, I will most likely be buying from them. Last I heard, they weren't taking any port work because they are so busy, so I have been thinking more and more about the bolt on cylinder option. Thanks for any info. PHil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthemail Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 wellllllll shit.... i knew there were 2 c-block types.... im also interested in hearing everyones opinion on the bolt on cylinders as i myself am looking at that option for my recent blow-up. cubs are pretty popular but they are newer on the market then cheetahs (id also like to know whats wrong with trinity because im looking at the 535 legend kit.... wait, was that a cheetah or a cub??? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeRider71 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Dont forget about the T-Rex kits an the twister kits too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRed350x Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Talk to lynn at LC Performance. He will get you a good deal on the cheetah blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted January 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Talk to lynn at LC Performance. He will get you a good deal on the cheetah blocks. Thanks bigred. So do you have an opinion on the value of the cheetah. Cost aside, do the powervalves make a significant difference? I realize that if i go the cheetah route, I need new reeds manifolds etc etc. But what the hell. I don't mind spending the dough if you can feel the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shee4202 Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hello, idk if this is gonna help you out at all, but I went from a fully ported banshee motor with several mods and it was great, except for the fact that you had to be wide open all the time to get the power you wanted there really wasn't any putting around. I ride mostly trails and i know that you want the power there whenever you need. Last year I blew everything up: cases, crank, pistons, cylinders, cool head domes. I was debating on the cheetah or the cub and from what I understand you can get the same amount of power out of each. the cubs dont have any pv and you can use stock head and intake system. the cheetah is a little more expensive but only because of the pv and you upgrade to 250R intakes. you can get the cheetah w'o the pv and have a block off plate on there for 1000 dollars less. but ill tell you with the pv it feels like a second power band. through the trails i can sit in 3rd and keep up with anything and when i need to I dont even have to switch gears or go wide open with no bogging all the power i need to smoke what ever is in front of me with no problem at all and ill be long past them when i switch to 4th and etc. in my opinion it is a powerful motor and im only running 93oct in it there really made for race fuel or somthing along them lines. a couple of months ago my buddy who owns a bunch of land and cleared a 1/2 mile stretch of land and when i was riding around his track I seen the crazy bastard humming around on his polaris 800 twin snowmobile. he asked me if i wanted to race so I figured what the hell. I really didn't think that i had a chance and the first run i got a ruff and rutty line so he blew me a way i couldn't get any traction and my quad was hitting all kinds of ruts throughing me everywhere. he smoked my buddy on his stock shee too. I raced him again picking a smoother line and I leaned back a little this time and he was winning by about a 1/2 a quad length and we came neck and neck when I hit 4th and by the time i was gonna hit 5th and the pv really kicked in I was passing him. I switched to 5th and after that i was gone and he had no chance in catching up. this was just stock banshee gearing If you are gonna do a aftermarket cylinder kit I would def. suggest getting either the cub or the cheetah with a 4mm stroke, but if you have the money I would def. go with the cheetah with pv. plus you have to remember you can do alot with the cheetah or cub as far as performance goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 If money and parts availability were not the issue...I'd build a Cheetah any day of the week. Powervalve, bigger intakes, better head design, bigger bore... It's a winner all the way around. Especially for a dune/drag bike. You can usually find used PVs on ebay or forums for a helluva lot less than 1K.... When you build this kind of motor, don't stop there or you'll be severly dissapointed. Override or dunable override are a must for a 10 mil if you want to be able to shift well and consistently under any kind of powre. Lockup clutch as well. Longer swinger, more paddle, longer brake line, longer chain, gearing.... And depending on what kind of intakes, carbs and pipes you're running....that might need to be swapped too. It never ends.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthemail Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 It never ends.... aint that the truth homie.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
530grafix Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Keep your business local. And help CALIFORNIANS thigs are ruff for alot of our local economy.. Call John Safarian at Sand Toys Unlimited.. Link is in my Signature.... He has some really good deals and builds some mean bikes..He is located in glendale, ca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Keep your business local. And help CALIFORNIANS thigs are ruff for alot of our local economy.. Call John Safarian at Sand Toys Unlimited.. Link is in my Signature.... He has some really good deals and builds some mean bikes..He is located in glendale, ca. WORD...Sefarian is one helluva nice guy and good businessman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted February 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Keep your business local. And help CALIFORNIANS thigs are ruff for alot of our local economy.. Call John Safarian at Sand Toys Unlimited.. Link is in my Signature.... He has some really good deals and builds some mean bikes..He is located in glendale, ca. i'll check that out man, thanks for the link. does he only do complete builds, or will he sell me the parts? I really want to build it myself. i have never payed anybody to build anything for me, and i want to tinker with this baby myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baddsheee Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 i'll check that out man, thanks for the link. does he only do complete builds, or will he sell me the parts? I really want to build it myself. i have never payed anybody to build anything for me, and i want to tinker with this baby myself. If looking for someone in Cali, give Rudy Kurtz from Port Magic a call. He's built some pretty fast shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted February 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) If money and parts availability were not the issue...I'd build a Cheetah any day of the week.Powervalve, bigger intakes, better head design, bigger bore... It's a winner all the way around. Especially for a dune/drag bike. You can usually find used PVs on ebay or forums for a helluva lot less than 1K.... When you build this kind of motor, don't stop there or you'll be severly dissapointed. Override or dunable override are a must for a 10 mil if you want to be able to shift well and consistently under any kind of powre. Lockup clutch as well. Longer swinger, more paddle, longer brake line, longer chain, gearing.... And depending on what kind of intakes, carbs and pipes you're running....that might need to be swapped too. It never ends.... Dajo, thanks for the info, that was what I was looking for. I am not so concerned with the money aspect, but your comment about parts availability is concerning. have the cheetah parts been hard to come by? the last thing i want is to put together a nice package only to not be able to use it due to waiting on parts here and there. I will not be doing anything bigger than a 4 mil stroker regardless of which cylinders i go with stock, cub,or cheetah. i dont want a monster, i dont need that. Now, as far as all the peripheral parts needed to support that motor, that is one of my concerns. Right now, i have a +2 swinger, and dont really want to go longer becuase this is a dune bike. i dont want a big long drag bike. now I realize that most people will say im stupid to do a cheetah with a + 2 swinger, but i want a dune bike not a drag bike. i figure that if i dont get too aggressive with the tires, i should be able to manage it. i just want a bike with a great overall duning package. Also one of my concerns is the trans as I know you answered some of my questions in the other thread. I dont want to worry about backloading and hurting the trans, so I am leaning away from the override. At this point this is what I am thinking, give me your opinions please. 4mil x 68 Cheetah PV motor with standard trans and whatever clutch i need to hold it. Not sure if I can run an override and use clutch to up/down shift at higher rpm. Can I? Probably go with shearer pipes, and as far as carbs I have been considering lectrons. My buddy has some 38mm lectrons (I think that is the size) on his 7milx 68mm bore stock cylinder bike, and he likes them because they are really easy to tune the main circuit with altitude/weather changes or PWK's What do you think? I currently have some trinity stage 4 pipes, that if they would perform ok on the above motor, I wouldn't mind running simply for the fact they are stainless and I ride a lot at the beach. What do you think? they seem to work well on my buddies RZ motor shee. As far as the intakes, if i do the cheetah obviously i would need to purchase new on all of that. Im ok with that, I can put all of my shit on my brothers shee. My loss his gain little fucker. Thanks for all the info, guys, keep it coming. I appreciate/respect all opinions. Phil EDIT: I forgot one of my questions. At what point do straight cut gears become necessary? Do you think I would be ok on a4mil/68 cheetah on race gas with oem or will i need the straights? What about trans, will i need a billet 2nd. Like i said i dont drag much just dune the shit out of it. thanks Edited February 1, 2008 by rubberneck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 My pleasure... If I kinda skimmed your post, I"m sorry...early, first coffee, you understand. I had a 4 mil cub on gas in 06, 10 mil cub an alky this year and 07. Based on my experience: No straight cuts or billet second. I don't even have them on mine, and ALL I do is drag race. The only thing I meant about parts availability is...with a cub, just about everything is off the shelf...from anyone. If you get a bigger bore Cheetah PV motor, you have to get the Pistons from Trinity... Cubs were designed to use big bore blaster pistons....just about everyone carries them. The head is proprietary....as well. Whereas a cub you can get a stocker cut, or just use any aftermarket head with the right domes. It's not that the parts for a Cheetah PV aren't available, they're just not as readily available from Joe Local....that's all. You're building primarily a duner, not a dragger. This is where it gets tough. My advice, based on how poorly my old 4 mil shifted, is to get a dunable override and lockup clutch. A stout running 4 mil cub or cheetah is very capable of 85 to 95 HP. My 4 mil dyno'd at 85 HP with T5 pipes and stock carbs (waiting on my carbs and pipes... ) With my Shearer inframe pipes and 35PWKs, I safely estimate it was 90ish....and it shifted under throttle like poo. Brand new clutch basket (billet) new inner and outer, perfectly adjust clutch and shifted. It just wouldn't shift under power. Depending on where you ride and how much you weigh, don't forget about a 6 over arm and more paddle, too. Longer the arm you go...the more paddle. 4 over arm might be ok...but, it will be a handful to ride if you're getting grip. My 4 mil with a 6 over arm, 10 paddle haulers came up at will with my 250lb ass on it. I hope this helps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted February 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 If you get a bigger bore Cheetah PV motor, you have to get the Pistons from Trinity... Cubs were designed to use big bore blaster pistons....just about everyone carries them. So the 68mm bore cheetah will require me to get the pistons from Trinity? Or do they also use the big bore blasters? Thanks for all the info. I keep bouncing back and forth. It kind of sounds like for what I want, the cheetah may be a little too much. I just dont want to stretch the bike out to +6 on the swinger. I am really hesitant to do the override with the type of riding I like to do. I also dont want to build a 4mil stock cylinder and not be happy with the performance only to turn around and build the cheetah or cub next year anyway. Decisions Decisions. I have a little time before I have to make a move. No riding planned for a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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