EFI Any Manufacturers for the Shee?

[Snopczynski]

MRD made a mechanical water pump driven setup for drag bikes back in the early 90's. It was a two fuel mode setup with a low and high speed fuel circuit. They are the only ones I have ever seen stable info on.

[FireHead]

as someone else said the only person I know of that has successfully built a system for a Banshee that worked was Kevin Gigotof Garden City Kansas. Its not cheap and it takes alot of effort to get tuned right but it does work. I always wanted to do MOTEC system with Kevins Throttle Bodies that he builds but it was never cost effective for me. the MOTEC computer alone is over 1500.00.

.........and I am pretty sure he was never selling thta setup to the general public. The the throttle body isn't really the challenge with reegard to a Banshee engine. The challenge is the chraging system and the programming if the ECM. Since there is so much aftermarket support for the Banshee it woul take a huge amount of engineering to conjure spark and fuel tables that would have enough depth to support even a fraction of what's out there (pipes, cylinders, etc.). :geek:

[GP racerX]

.........and I am pretty sure he was never selling thta setup to the general public. The the throttle body isn't really the challenge with reegard to a Banshee engine. The challenge is the chraging system and the programming if the ECM. Since there is so much aftermarket support for the Banshee it woul take a huge amount of engineering to conjure spark and fuel tables that would have enough depth to support even a fraction of what's out there (pipes, cylinders, etc.). :geek:

 

You are right firehead its selling them to the general public thats the problem The charging system is not too bad ...a Moose charging stator or any of the 200w stators wound for full wave will do a pretty good job you still need a pretty good sized battery

 

The old system I have is just a fuel management however it does have the capabilties to run one ignition output. This system was engineered for 2 strokes and works quite well I had it on my banshee since 93' and a few of my friends however its not idiot proof :ninja:

It really takes a dyno to build the fuel map either that or a lot a patience lol

I have tons of throttle bodies and ecu's and would like to develop a kit for builders some time soon

back 10 years ago most peeps were afraid of this stuff but now its common place

[GP racerX]

 

 

I made some HUGE 48mm x 58mm oval throttle bodies for the caracal's. twin 1600cc injectors to handle methanol and boost

[GP racerX]

I would think that it would cost alot more than $1k to come up with an FIS setup that any retard could use and/or tune.

 

I have been using this a setup from these guy to run my Banshee engines on the dyno:

http://www.pe-ltd.com/

The only problem is that it doesn't support running much over 20k rpms.

 

I am sure some of you guys might ask why I am only using this setup on the dyno. I have two reasons: 1.)I am terrbile at tunig carburetors. 2.)I haven't come up with a way to implement a clean, reliable, and professional looking charging system on a banshee to support the FIS system.

 

Fire head I like the looks of that system too.. If your interested I can send you some of the units I have to test plus I have maps that might be close for your banshee. It's old school, but its a good base to compare too. It does as well as a job as my motec units but with out all the bells and whistles

[GP racerX]

The only problem is that it doesn't support running much over 20k rpms

 

Id like to hear a banshee at 20k ! :wink:

[blowit]

Id like to hear a banshee at 20k ! :wink:

 

 

Kevin, I am just curious if you have put thought into a closed loop system for your kits? We would be more inclined to work this from a ground zero stand point because many store bought ECMs have way too much EPA crap that must be bypassed for two stroke operation. I understand the issues with O2 sensing but other means can be employed for engine output data.

 

Brandon

[FireHead]

I made some HUGE 48mm x 58mm oval throttle bodies for the caracal's. twin 1600cc injectors to handle methanol and boost

That looks significantly nicer than the last picture of one of your throttle bodies that I saw.....................is that a sign we are pretty close to seeing an EFI kit put together buy you for sale? :geek:

[FireHead]

Id like to hear a banshee at 20k ! :wink:

I have had several Banshee engines up over that mark.............However, I found that I am not experienced enough with expansion chamber design to cover a wide enough rpm range to make any power available up there useable. Cylinder scavenging also falls victim up there at that speed as do pistons when you can't process enough injection events to prevent from going lean. :biggrin:

[FireHead]

Kevin, I am just curious if you have put thought into a closed loop system for your kits? We would be more inclined to work this from a ground zero stand point because many store bought ECMs have way too much EPA crap that must be bypassed for two stroke operation. I understand the issues with O2 sensing but other means can be employed for engine output data.

 

Brandon

 

Closed loop really isn't that big of deal IMO. One of you guys may have a different opinion. From my experience, if you can get a probe installed close enough to the rook of the exhaust port (read in the cylinder), then coking is not an issue.

[FireHead]

Firehead I like the looks of that system too.. If your interested I can send you some of the units I have to test plus I have maps that might be close for your banshee. It's old school, but its a good base to compare too. It does as well as a job as my motec units but with out all the bells and whistles

What sort of stuff do you have to test (forgive me for not keeping up on my internet reading)? If you like the PE units, one of the guys I went to skool with is one of the co-founders of the company and I am sure I could atleast open a door for conversation if you were interested. :thumbsup:

[blowit]

Closed loop really isn't that big of deal IMO. One of you guys may have a different opinion. From my experience, if you can get a probe installed close enough to the rook of the exhaust port (read in the cylinder), then coking is not an issue.

 

 

That is kinda what I was getting at. There are other means to employ closed loop data input but the EGT as a closed loop input parameter can work if tuned correctly. The only things we look at hard for this are fail safes and without closed loop, a system can fail without without indication. There are many ways to do it but we feel CL operation is the only cold start enrichment is the only way.

 

 

brandon

[FireHead]

That is kinda what I was getting at. There are other means to employ closed loop data input but the EGT as a closed loop input parameter can work if tuned correctly. The only things we look at hard for this are fail safes and without closed loop, a system can fail without without indication. There are many ways to do it but we feel CL operation is the only cold start enrichment is the only way.

brandon

In general, I set my ECM's up to run in both modes, which I think is what you are getting at. I run in an open loop mode to start the engine ang get it up to a reasonable temperature, then I use that temp (and possibly a few other paramters) as a flag to switch over to closed loop operation.

 

IMO if you run in open loop operation all the time, you are almost better off running a set of carbs instead. :geek:

[blowit]

In general, I set my ECM's up to run in both modes, which I think is what you are getting at. I run in an open loop mode to start the engine ang get it up to a reasonable temperature, then I use that temp (and possibly a few other paramters) as a flag to switch over to closed loop operation.

 

IMO if you run in open loop operation all the time, you are almost better off running a set of carbs instead. :geek:

 

absolutely. By auto enrichment, I just mean no choke lever. That was something Honda piloted years ago with the CBRs in the bike world. Still an open loop system with 02 verification. Wide band opens many doors but lead and alky create problems. Yeah, I have not put a tone of thought into it but I know OEMs cannot induce closed loop until operating temps come up and proper combustion commences. Just too tough to stay closed when your burning half the fuel charge on start up. I am sure the OEMs know what they are doing and have put plenty of thought into all possibilities. I still think 02 sensing will go out the door shortly.

 

Brandon

[GP racerX]

I would definatly be interested in talking to some one on those units....

 

I use the old ecu stuff with out closed loop and get by fine once you get it dialed in there is little need for it for racing unless you make a bunch of changes on the engine we ran for many seasons on or little 250 micro just using the efi as a altitude/temp compensator

All our new race care use closed loop and data loging ...it sure the best way to go by far and it aids in getting the mapping dialed in and you can tell what happens when things go wrong

 

But in all reallity if you just need a very precise electronic carb just a simple open loop system works wery well

You caint beet EFI for runing and tuning methanol burning 2 strokes What we found is the abillity to lean the mixture down for max power but still have the consistancy and safty on runing a carb rich, actually much more consistancy because you eliminate the posibility of sucking the bowls dry.