bigwake Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 i'm new so cut me some slack please..here's my situation..i bought a 2000 banshee..the day i went to get it i started it up on the 1st kick and it ran fine and shifted well etc..took it home and went to start it up and take it for a ride around my block..the mods are boost bottle,k&n filter,barnett clutch, and vf3's..i have just realized that the snorkel on the airbox has been removed..my guess was because of the k&n wanting more airflow?..so i went to start it up and it just wouldn't..it took me probably 30 kicks..combo of gas/no gas..choke always though..and finally got it started..it ran smooth and everything..so i put brand new plugs in and drained the old gas and put new 32:1 mix bel ray with premium..i went to start it up and it was a bear again..after the first time i got it running and i was putting it away i shut the gas off and ran the bike until it starved of gas and shut off..so i turned the gas on and figured i have to wait for it to get to the 2 carbs? so after about 20 mins of kicking and waiting she fired up..i rode around and shut it off..today i went to a local riding spot to really open it up and see how it rides..i figured since it seemed to be not gettin gas quick enough i put the gas on an hr before we got to the spot..well..she was flodded but the plugs were bone dry and brown in color..so i finally got it started and rode the whole day..when the bike has just been started no matter how long or short..it fire right up again without hesitation..so i'm just wonering if anyone has any ideas on why this thing is so hard to start? it doesn't smoke at all and has all the power and response it should..but just getting it started is crazy..do i need to put the gas on and wait like 20 mins? is there a trick to starting a banshee?..i need help because this is really bugging me that i cant get it going like any other machine i've owned..so any suggestions would be great! sorry about the long story..but i need to lay out the facts..thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 (edited) first thing I would do is a compression check. sounds like that thing may be in need for some new rings and/or pistons. you want at least 100 lbs. but stock at sea level, it's 120 or 125, can't remember. I usually recommend redoing the rings at 100 lbs on a stock bike. If compression gets low then it can be a huge pain to start. Edited September 23, 2007 by sredish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwake Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 first thing I would do is a compression check. sounds like that thing may be in need for some new rings and/or pistons. you want at least 100 lbs. but stock at sea level, it's 120 or 125, can't remember. I usually recommend redoing the rings at 100 lbs on a stock bike. If compression gets low then it can be a huge pain to start. sounds like a good starting point to me..i'll check it out..and btw..if it needed rings/pistons etc..would i notice it when riding?..and wouldn't it smoke heavily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 (edited) sounds like a good starting point to me..i'll check it out..and btw..if it needed rings/pistons etc..would i notice it when riding?..and wouldn't it smoke heavily? if it was a 4 stroke but a 2 stroke is going to smoke a tad bit anyways, too much to diagnose rings. if the compression was low, it's still capable of running pretty good even though it's starting like a beeotch. i'm not saying the starting issue is 100% the rings but it's a very common symptom, especially when it runs good otherwise. i've been out with friends and we'll just laugh because it takes them 50 kicks to get it going but then once it's started, it's going fine. in an extreme case, yea, performance will suffer but it really shouldn't get that far. I've used a single pair of pistons for 3 years and just reringed once a year. if I was to just wait for the compression to drop that much, then the pistons would've worn as well and I'd have ended up having to overbore and get pistons. On a 2-stroke, it's important to keep the rings fresh and the compression up. I actually hate stock compression. Regardless of the machine, I like to have it up to the point where 108 is necessary... I'm a big fan of compression. I usually run 175 lbs in the banshee; any more than that and you risk twisting a crank. You can mill the head while your swapping rings/pistons for $35 or $40 and gain some lowend that way, and still run pump gas. the problem with running higher compression is when you start with 150 and the rings wear and compression drops, it can still be at 130, starting fine running fine but have a ring problem. that's why it's important to know what your compression is and keep fresh rings in. Edited September 23, 2007 by sredish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwake Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 if it was a 4 stroke but a 2 stroke is going to smoke a tad bit anyways, too much to diagnose rings. if the compression was low, it's still capable of running pretty good even though it's starting like a beeotch. i'm not saying the starting issue is 100% the rings but it's a very common symptom, especially when it runs good otherwise. i've been out with friends and we'll just laugh because it takes them 50 kicks to get it going but then once it's started, it's going fine. in an extreme case, yea, performance will suffer but it really shouldn't get that far. I've used a single pair of pistons for 3 years and just reringed once a year. if I was to just wait for the compression to drop that much, then the pistons would've worn as well and I'd have ended up having to overbore and get pistons. On a 2-stroke, it's important to keep the rings fresh and the compression up. I actually hate stock compression. Regardless of the machine, I like to have it up to the point where 108 is necessary... I'm a big fan of compression. I usually run 175 lbs in the banshee; any more than that and you risk twisting a crank. You can mill the head while your swapping rings/pistons for $35 or $40 and gain some lowend that way, and still run pump gas. the problem with running higher compression is when you start with 150 and the rings wear and compression drops, it can still be at 130, starting fine running fine but have a ring problem. that's why it's important to know what your compression is and keep fresh rings in. thanx a ton for all the info! i'm going to try to get a compression check asap..and i know the bike has stock everything in the motor..it's never been opened..im at sea level so the compression should be at..around..120 you said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgetthisdone Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 your reeds might need replaced, if they're hanging open from being worn out, it'll make it really hard to start. check compression is also a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwake Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 your reeds might need replaced, if they're hanging open from being worn out, it'll make it really hard to start. check compression is also a good idea if the compression checks out..i can check those next.thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black sunshine Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Just out of curiousity....what are you doing when you start it? Choke out? Halfway out? Ect.. Since your new to banshees (and maybe 2-strokes?) this could be your trouble. Try a few kicks with the choke pulled all the way out with no gas. Make sure your plugs look alright and are not black and oily. Sometimes it's just that simple. It still is a good idea to check compression in both cylinders. They should be above 100psi and within 10% of each other. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 jetting is always a possibility. how far is your home from where you bought it, any major elevation changes? let us know what the compression checks out at. we'll go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwake Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 jetting is always a possibility. how far is your home from where you bought it, any major elevation changes? let us know what the compression checks out at. we'll go from there. ok heres what i've done so far..btw..i have owned 4 cr125's and 3 kx250's..so i am familiar with 2 strokes..single engines anyway..haha the day i bought it i noticed he had the gas on from the whole time we were there..so it started in 1 kick..got it home choke on gas off..because we didnt burn the gas in the crabs when we test rode it at his house..we just shut the gas/quad off..and so i figured it wouldnt need the gas..and i was wrong..so i tunred gas on and choke on and checked the plugs and they looked like crap..but i finally got it started after about 25 kicks..so i go to the store and get 2 new plugs and drain the old gas and put fresh new gas/mix in the bike..i went choke/gas..nothing for about 20 kicks and then finally started..when its started it runs perfect..no sputters,stalling,bogging etc..so i was thinking all along it must be that because of the 2 carbs it takes a while for the gas to reach them..so could this hunch be right? i am going to get the compression checked in a week because my dad is out of town at the moment..and the quads are on a trailor which i cant move until hes home..and then i figured if the compression is fine then maybe i should open the petcock and check to see if that filter thing is trahed..becaause it seeems like a fuel problem..and i bought the bike 2 hrs from my house in florida..i live in ft lauderdale and the guy i got it from was same sea level as me..so thats how its goin so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 and then i figured if the compression is fine then maybe i should open the petcock and check to see if that filter thing is trahed..becaause it seeems like a fuel problem.. that sounds like a valid thought except one thing that catches me. if you were having a petcock problem that was keeping fuel from getting to the bowl, then it should be running out of fuel quickly as it uses whatever fuel is in the bowl as the petcock wouldn't be able to keep up. the fact that it's running good once you get it started, leads me to something else. how long have you ridden it at one time since you've had it, if not too long then something to look at. i'm not saying you shouldn't clean out the petcock, probably not a bad idea but not sure it's going to fix the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shee4speed Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Even with bone dry carbs,turn on the gas and within 15sec.it should start 3-4 kicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwake Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Even with bone dry carbs,turn on the gas and within 15sec.it should start 3-4 kicks. ya thats what i thought about the petcock..the fact that it would run out when i rode..yesterday i ran for about 2 solid hours with the engine on the whole time..no problems..other than starting..so i know i have spark..fuel is in the bike..so i'm just lost with this starting..i have tried with gas/choke..w/o gas/choke..everything..so i need to do that compression check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwake Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 ya thats what i thought about the petcock..the fact that it would run out when i rode..yesterday i ran for about 2 solid hours with the engine on the whole time..no problems..other than starting..so i know i have spark..fuel is in the bike..so i'm just lost with this starting..i have tried with gas/choke..w/o gas/choke..everything..so i need to do that compression check one other thing..if i get the engine to start...even if its for a second..it fires up the next kick..and no matter how warm the engine is..it starts 1 kick after riding for how ever long..so its real easy to start when hot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming Yellow Zonker Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 IMO it sounds like the carbs need a good cleaning. If your pilot jets are even the slightest bit plugged it will give you a hard start. Did this guy you bought the shee off of do a jet change for the mods? If not you could be running too lean. You should notice some smoke when you start it up. but if there is none than I would check that out. You could also drain your tank and pull the petcock out and check the filters on that to make sure they are not plugged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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