What Oils Are Best For Your Banshee?

[jayzx10r]

Not that I'm trying to "open a can of worms" (maybe stir the pot a little!!) but I keep seeing posts about "which oil is best....."

Let's get to the bottom of this!!

 

Here is what I want to do. Don't just TELL what your favorite oil brand is. Tell factually WHY your choice is your favorite oil!!

 

I'll start off first. :ninja:

 

I use Yamalube 2R (so does Toomey and many other race teams!!) for Premix at 32/1 and Shell Rotella T Synthetic for the transmission. I bought a case of 12 quarts of the 2R on (Fe)eBay for $50.00 and I buy the 5W40 Rotella T at WalMart for $16.00 per Gallon. I find these to cost effective choices for top quality goods.

 

Some people swear by ATF. The reason I don't use ATF is I don't think it offers enough "shock resistance" because of it's lack of viscosity. If I were racing to win money or points, I'd probably use it....but not as a recreational use fluid replacement. It is a thin oil and the upside to a thinner is decreased parasitic drag imposed on your motor. On the down side, the oil isn't designed for gears, it is designed primarily for dispersion of heat and as a compression medium in a hydraulic pressure pump system. Very little shock or bashing of gears going on in an auto trans. There aren't really too many gears in a TurboHydro 350!!

 

The Golden Spectro, BelRay, Maxima, Motul, etc "80W gear oils" marketed to the cycle/ATV industry are all premium longer strand molecular chain oils that work well in a transmission/wet clutch environment.

However, on a sliding scale having automotive engine oil on one end and hypoid 80W gear oil (real transmission oil) on the other, the stuff we use is waaaaayyyy closer to the auto stuff. Which is why I like the Diesel oil...it's a HD version of what we use...but manufactured en mass...so it is a mass marketed great product at a reasonable price!!

 

Remember that when talking about "gear oil" different spec scale standards are used so an 80W gear oil is not like a 80W motor oil ("ATF is (in SAE motor viscosity) equivalent to a 10W20 oil. 80W gear oil (AGMA scale) translates into a 40W (10W-40 or 20W-40) SAE motor oil.")

 

So when Yamaha recommends standard 4-stroke engine oil with a 10W40 viscosity, it is the same as an 80W "gear" oil...as far as viscosity is concerned. Next time you are at the bike shop, pick up and shake a bottle of 10W40 and 80W gear oil....It will feel nearly the same!! It is NOWHERE even close the 85W hypoid I put in the trans/diff on my truck.

 

After everything so far being said, I'm just trying to point out that 10W40 = 80W. If you use a good oil, everything is peachy.

If you use a superior oil, that is even better.

 

In my mind, Shell Rotella T Synthetic at $4.00 per quart is a top tier oil...on par with Motul, BelRay, etc. The fact that it is a diesel oil only lends itself to being more robust and to handle higher loading pressures than standard automotive oils.

 

Since we all change our fluids ridiculously often, we could probably use standard automotive 10W40 oil from any major manufacturer without consequence. I change the oil in my car/truck every 2500 miles...that's probably close to 500 hours. I'm sure none of us wait that long in our ATVs!!

 

Funny Story...Comic Relief Break:

My neighbor (divorced) bought a new Ford Focus and after owning it for a couple of years had her ex come by to look at her car because it "felt funny." He pulled the dipstick to check the oil level, and it was so low it didn't touch the stick. So he unscrewed the cap to add some oil, which exposed a cam lobe (OHC) where he saw scarring on the face of the lobe.

So he asked her when the last time was she changed the oil....her reply was:

"They told me it didn't need a tune up for 100, 000 miles, and I only have 60, 000 miles on it so I was going to have it done right at the 100,000 mark."

 

WOW!!!

 

None of that story is relevant to the oil discussion...just thought I'd share!!

 

Batter Up!! :yelrotflmao:

 

Jay From SanD.

Edited September 14, 2007 by jayzx750

[Bansh-eman]

Although most of what you are saying hits the nail on the head, there are a few things that are misguiding.

 

As far as the ATF goes, it actually has fairly reasonable lubrication for gears. No it was not designed like synthetics to take abuse of gears and act as a cushion if you will at points of friction, how ever it does aid in those aspects when its not overly exposed and overly past needing to be changed. With atf it is so widely manufactured that it is an inexpensive alternative to the "name brand oils" that claim superior lubrication. The fact is that when the aft is fresh it will perform the same task at a fraction of the cost. Yea you have to replace it more often but when its costs 1/4 of the price ill spend a few extra mins under the motor.

 

Also with the comment of the automatic trannys, they take quite a bit of abuse. Where as a manual tranny is shifted once the load has been taken off by releasing the throttle and pushing/ pulling the clutch. An auto is still under load. Not the same load as when driving due to differentials and tons of other electronically controlled mechanics, but the tranny is still under more load then a manual tranny (assuming the user knows how to properly use the manual)

 

Although many of the "superior oils" claim to have better lubrication then others, don

[jbooker82]

Some people swear by ATF. The reason I don't use ATF is I don't think it offers enough "shock resistance" because of it's lack of viscosity. It is a thin oil and the upside to a thinner is decreased parasitic drag imposed on your motor. On the down side, the oil isn't designed for gears, it is designed primarily for dispersion of heat and as a compression medium in a hydraulic pressure pump system. Very little shock or bashing of gears going on in an auto trans.

 

All of the Domestic Motor companies put ATF in there manual transmissions from the factory. The only manual transmissions that use Hipoid Gear oil now days are the older 4 speeds from the 70's.

[RNBRAD]

Like Bansh-man stated, most of these bottled oils out there are produced by just a few company's. The KEY to choosing a good oil is knowing which refining process these company's use and also what additive packages they use and which oil with which additive package best fits the characteristics of "my" engine.. These "additive packages" have patents on them and they are pretty much top secret until the patent expires. There are definite so called leaders in the additive packaging business and many other company's just use there old additive package technology once the patents expire. But these company's are generally several years behind on the latest r&d in lubrication. But most of the oils you guys swear by are honestly not your top tier oils. then again we are not lubricating a too sophisticated motor either. Many of you buy oil based on the name on the bottle vs what's really inside. But hey that's marketing genius, put "your name goes here" on a bottle of oil and people will swear by it. Just like Harley riders have to use Harley Davidson oil cause they feel somehow it is made just for the Harley bike. Hogwash, ha no pun intended, but know there is much better oils out there than buying a "John Deere", Harley Davidson, Honda, Yamaha, etc... These companys don't make oil, they are in business to sell it and they will tell you what you want to hear so you will buy it. They don't want you to know there is a superior oil on the shelf at wal-mart for your application for less money. They can't have that, the bottle says Honda it is made specifically for your machine, that is what they want you to believe. Also oil is like religion, it really boils down to which preacher or salesman they like and people will just use their recommendation instead of really finding out for themselves what is really the best. It takes time though.

 

It really boils down to, do we need to split hairs finding an oil for our banshee. Is there "really" that much difference between oils that I will see significant improvement. No not really, but there are best better and good oils out there. I just don't think our little banshee tranny's are pushing the limits of the latest developments in lubrication and probably wouldn't if we poured in a bottle a of oil refined and bottled in 1960. Just know that changing it regularly will be for more important than what brand I put in.

[jayzx10r]

All of the Domestic Motor companies put ATF in there manual transmissions from the factory. The only manual transmissions that use Hipoid Gear oil now days are the older 4 speeds from the 70's.

And the transmissions in our Banshees are from that same '70s vintage...RD350/400s!! :yelrotflmao:

I'm not saying not to run ATF...just recognize that all you are really choosing to do is to run 20W oil instead of the recommended 40W.

It isn't really the same to contrast freeway mileage lubricant use against an OHV environment, especially when the manufacturer is more concerned with CAFE regulations and maximizing their theoretical "Highway MPG" figures than the longevity of your vehicle. They try to flatten out the jumps and berms on the freeway!!

Good point though about modern vehicles being designed for the thinner oil. Would you put that '70s 85W hypoid in your modern vehicle's transmission when ATF is called for? If not, then why would you put ATF in your ATV '70s trans??

Respectfully, what I don't understand...and enlighten me if you can...is if you want to run 20W oil, OK. Why not run 20W engine oil...something designed for lubrication, instead of ATF...designed as a hydraulic/jack oil?

 

Maybe I just have too much time on my hands...

[370banshee]

same thread on e2s... same answer

 

 

gear oil in a trail quad.. ATF type F in an override or drag machine.. and change it OFTEN

[Bansh-eman]

Well one of the great thing about ATF is that it was built to with stand alot of pressure. and it is also a fairly decent lubricant when it fresh and not contaminated...

[jayzx10r]

same thread on e2s... same answer

gear oil in a trail quad.. ATF type F in an override or drag machine.. and change it OFTEN

I'll ALWAYS admit when I don't know something......and I have ZERO experience with the override trannys.

Your post makes sense to me!!

[Bansh-eman]

also when guys run ATF and overrides you uses 2 quarts rather then 1.5

[csrmel]

ill put in my 2 cents here.

 

all oils thicken up when at room temparture or just warm compared to their viscosity rating which is normally done at 212F. thats why oil pressure drops as an engine gets warm. the oil thins out.

 

since a banshee transmission doesnt actually run at 212F (its more like 130-150 on mine) the oils we choose will be thicker than what we are led to believe. for instance, an atf is about the thickness of a 20 weight oil at 212F. this is true, but that atf is probably more like a 40 or 50 weight at 140F which is in the middle of my temparture range. a 10w40 is probably more like a 60-70 weight when at 140F as well. this is because our banshees dont have a shared engine and trans like a 4 stroke does.

 

yamaha specs a 10w40 for our bikes. thats right in the manual and no one can dispute it. so if youre trans is good and hot, that 10w40 is more like a 60 weight and the atf is more like a 40 weight.

 

personally i ran type f in my bike for half a year now. i noticed no ill effects, but i didnt notice anything positive either. its just an oil so its no big deal. i found a 15w40 diesel rated oil on clearence for about $0.05 (thats 5 cents) per quart so i bought up a big stock of that, and thats what im going to be using from now on. only reason i changed from type f was the price.

 

but really, i think that nearly any oil will work good in the banshee transmission as long as it isnt made by wesson or johnson&johnson.

[chevrolet banshee]

well sens we are on banshee trans my banshee shifts realy hard from 1 to 2 and some times will not go int netrol

i use Castro gtx 10-30

i use 1.5 quarts and change my oil regularly

 

thanks for the help

 

(p.s i had to change my shift shaft because it wos bent. i went off a jump and landed on the shift lever with my foot)

[RZBansheeMan]

I'l stick to a synthetic Type-F for my Banshee tranny, Almost all domestic light duty "aluminum" manual transmissions 2 wheel and 4 wheel drive along with transfer cases run ATF in them.

 

Yes ATF is a hydraulic fluid but it is widely used, it is for "wet" clutches in an automatic, and obviously the Banshee clutch is a "wet" clutch also. I think it is very excellent tranny fluid to use in the Banshee.

[jayzx10r]

well sens we are on banshee trans my banshee shifts realy hard from 1 to 2 and some times will not go int netrol

i use Castro gtx 10-30

i use 1.5 quarts and change my oil regularly

 

thanks for the help

 

(p.s i had to change my shift shaft because it wos bent. i went off a jump and landed on the shift lever with my foot)

10W30 is not recommended for motorcycle trans/wet clutch applications because they are an "energy saving" oil. ANY container that says that on it should NEVER have it's contents used in your wet clutch application vehicle!!

[lonestar]

RNBRAD, HOGWASH that was pretty good