FireHead Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 I work for GM, I just took the IDL class on Flexfuel Vehicles. The flex fuel rigs are designed to run on E85 or regular gasoline. They have stainless steel fuel lines and other upgraded fuel system components to run the E85 fuel specifically. If you dont retrofit your atv, then you need to purge and flush the fuel system after use. Water in E85 makes it highly acidic and corrosive, it will eat rubber, aluminum, and magnesium. Here's a clip of the vid.Flex Fuel vid clip The same things you mention will apply to methanol as well. To overly simplify this conversation, what everyone needs to remember is that the big difference between ethanol and methanol is where the hydrocarbon base of the fuel comes from. Ethanol comes from distilling corn, beats, etc.; while methanol comes the dinosaurs. :geek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majicmike Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 More E-85 info Fuel injector, carburetor jet sizing, and fuel pump requirements can be estimated by using the following guidelines as a starting point. For a naturally aspirated (NA) engine (carbureted) on gasoline most need a brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) for gasoline of 0.50 lb/(hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csrmel Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 this is an interesting thread. unfortunately e85 isnt avavilable in florida. methanol is, but the purging issues and the fact that mathanol is toxic turns me off to it. i went to a paint store and bought a gallon jug of ethanol to try and mis me up some for my banshee for testing purposes. i know this isnt practical for everyday use but im just doing some tests here. if i mix it up at an 85% rate with 93 octane gas, i cant get the alcohol and gas to mix. the gas just forms a slug at the bottom of the can. no ammount of shaking gets the 2 to mix. i looked on the interweb for advice, and found out that i need to add a bit of benzene to get the ethanol and gasoline to mix. problem is i cant find anywhere to buy benzene. so now ive got a gallon jug of gas and ethanol that wont mix. what to do with it? i guess i will hold onto it for now and do more research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Good thread, good info... I might have browsed past it...but Mikey...are you going to purge your raptor like a meth bike?? mel...just use it for bonfire fuel...LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majicmike Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Good thread, good info...I might have browsed past it...but Mikey...are you going to purge your raptor like a meth bike?? mel...just use it for bonfire fuel...LOL... IMO no Not during the summer when I ride every other week I will change my oil more. But I will not purge every ride. Would I purge a banshee? I think that is some of the resone drag bikes last as long as they do. When I purge I mike the fuel and oil a atleast 20:1 . Some would say thats a bit much but I like the idea for the oil soaking in to the bearings when not riding. But thats just MO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 On a side note...but not totally unrelated... I'm a firm believe in purging as well. I mix my meth and purge fuel with the SAME type of oil (very important) @ 28:1. I just popped a piston (a little deto from leaning out just a hair too little) and the lower of the motor looks awesome. No rust, bearings in great shape, plenty of oil on them.... I've seen what meth can do to a carb from letting it sit in them. Not only do I purge...I also remove and drain the carbs and clean them out once done purging... I use starting fluid or carb cleaner to spray everything inside the bowl out....I don't like to leave stupid things like that to chance.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Good thread, good info...I might have browsed past it...but Mikey...are you going to purge your raptor like a meth bike?? mel...just use it for bonfire fuel...LOL... He shouldn't have to purge the Raptor, he just needs to monitor his oil dillution level. :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 On a side note...but not totally unrelated...I'm a firm believe in purging as well. I mix my meth and purge fuel with the SAME type of oil (very important) @ 28:1. Except when Dave is talking about meth, he is talking about methamphetamine. He does live in Detroit don'tcha know. :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAICK Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 i know this wont help no banshee owners. but i thought this was interesting http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Powersports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austin Posted September 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 so are there 400-440 jets for stock carbs available, or will I have to drill some of my old ones out? Also whats the max you can mill off of a stock head? As far as purging e85 I don't this its necessary as the 15% gas really takes the corrosive properties down as well as the ethanol alcohol is already not being as corrosive as methanol alcohol, however I'm goin to get some alcohol resistant hose to go from tank to carbs anyways. I got this blue goodyear hose down at the local speed shop for my chevelle thats alcohol resistant and reasonably priced, it should work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 this is an interesting thread. unfortunately e85 isnt avavilable in florida. methanol is, but the purging issues and the fact that mathanol is toxic turns me off to it.i went to a paint store and bought a gallon jug of ethanol to try and mis me up some for my banshee for testing purposes. i know this isnt practical for everyday use but im just doing some tests here. if i mix it up at an 85% rate with 93 octane gas, i cant get the alcohol and gas to mix. the gas just forms a slug at the bottom of the can. no ammount of shaking gets the 2 to mix. i looked on the interweb for advice, and found out that i need to add a bit of benzene to get the ethanol and gasoline to mix. problem is i cant find anywhere to buy benzene. so now ive got a gallon jug of gas and ethanol that wont mix. what to do with it? i guess i will hold onto it for now and do more research. I am not real sure why you would intentionally mix gasoline with your alky?? You are weakening your brew by doing that. Also, keep in mind that if you tuned for Methanol before, you will need to retune drastically for Ethanol. They are not even in the same tuning zip code. Regardless of the mix, if you have alky in a two stroke, you need to purge after a week. Obvious bearing damage can and will occur to the main bearings and big end rod bearings. The biggest reason there is a blend of gasoline in E85 at the pump is due to cold weather performance and to actually reduce the octane number. If you want max performance, go water your weeds with the gasoline and dump the Ethanol right in. REMEMBER that many oils do NOT mix with alky so watch that. Klotz is about the best. If you want added protection for your bearings, you can put additives in your fuel such as upper lube by VP that will help coat and combat problems. I recommend some more research before playing with it. You will still need to increase fuel flow to protect against sucking your bowls dry. Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 As far as purging e85 I don't this its necessary as the 15% gas really takes the corrosive properties down as well as the ethanol alcohol is already not being as corrosive as methanol alcohol Uh, what.....................It's not really the alcohol being corrosive that is the problem (except in the exhaust system). It's the water it attracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 so are there 400-440 jets for stock carbs available, or will I have to drill some of my old ones out? Also whats the max you can mill off of a stock head? As far as purging e85 I don't this its necessary as the 15% gas really takes the corrosive properties down as well as the ethanol alcohol is already not being as corrosive as methanol alcohol, however I'm goin to get some alcohol resistant hose to go from tank to carbs anyways. I got this blue goodyear hose down at the local speed shop for my chevelle thats alcohol resistant and reasonably priced, it should work fine. Your smoking crack! As long as you still have e85 in your tank and in the bike, you need to purge and flush. Just cause you mixed gas with it, doesn't save your behind from having to flush it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austin Posted September 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Uh, what.....................It's not really the alcohol being corrosive that is the problem (except in the exhaust system). It's the water it attracts. yes, but the water itself isn't corrosive, it reacts with the alcohol to produce formic acid, which is corrosive. The 15% gas in e85 simply takes the concentration of the ethanol alcohol down, reducing its ability to take in water, ultimately reducing its corrosiveness. Snopczynski- Do they purge flexfuel vehicles? No. I'm not running methanol, I'm running ethanol which has a much lower solubility with water; so unless Im goin to let my bike sit for a month there is no need to purge. If you want to, thats fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 (edited) yes, but the water itself isn't corrosive, it reacts with the alcohol to produce formic acid, which is corrosive. The 15% gas in e85 simply takes the concentration of the ethanol alcohol down, reducing its ability to take in water, ultimately reducing its corrosiveness. Snopczynski- Do they purge flexfuel vehicles? No. I'm not running methanol, I'm running ethanol which has a much lower solubility with water; so unless Im goin to let my bike sit for a month there is no need to purge. If you want to, thats fine. They dont purge flex fuel vehicles because they are 4 strokes. They dont use the fuel with 2 stroke oil in it to lubricate the bottom end of the engine. Not to mention flex fuel vehicle fuel systems are refitted with non-corrosive materials compared regular gm vehicles of the same caliber (I.E. Stainless steel fuel rails and lines). Apparently you didn't watch the video I posted a few pages back from my gm trainning courses. I know your talking about ethanol, and my stance still stays the same. Adding some more gasoline to the mixture does not change the fact that the ethanol is still hydroscopic. It will still absorb water in your vented fuel tank and corrode things in your engine and fuel system. Edited September 19, 2007 by Snopczynski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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