another jetting question

[bbruischart]

I have a 96 shee with .20 over bore. fmf turbine cores and fattys. boysen reeds.No airbox. I currently am running stockers with 330 mains. stock pilots. It runs killer with no dead spots. You guys helped me get here. but i just bought a 2to1 and a 39 pwk. I have no idea where to begin. This a relatively new carb, but I bought used from a dealer off a totaled quad. I know nothing about what jets are in it or the needle position. Just wondering if anyone has an idea where to start. Thanks guys. I will get some pics uploaded soon as figure out how to. Hey if you know how to do that I need that info too. I have windows vista and my pics are in my picture file on my computer. Thank you . Thank you.

[letsgetthisdone]

upload the pix to photobucket and copy th img code over..

Edited September 11, 2007 by letsgetthisdone

[sredish]

thats an awfully big carb for a 2 into 1. I'm afraid you may be setting yourself up for a hard to jet quad. vacuum is what makes these things work. the larger the carb is, the less vacuum pull you have which is why low end is lost in bigger carbs, due to the lack of vacuum in the lower rpms. In a stock bike or even stock / ported bike, a 35mm carb is more than plenty and even has some vacuum issues at lower rpms... not bad but enough. With a richer tapered needle (EEK needle), you can offset this by allowing more fuel to flow through and this works well.

 

I'd consider selling the 39 and trying to find a 35 or something. But, if your set on the 39, get an EEK needle and start off with a 185 main.

[Snopczynski]

Yeah, the EEK is a good starting point. We have a 4mill with a 35mm pwk running that needle. I have the same carb on my ported bike with a 2 into 1 pipe and I am running an EEL needle right now. 185 main is a good start. Pilot will probably want to be around a 42 or so to start.

[bbruischart]

I have a 182 main with the needle in the middle. It is a dej needle I believe. It runs good but has a low throttle dead spot. It makes it impossible to leave it in a gear let out and get back into it.

[sredish]

I have a 182 main with the needle in the middle. It is a dej needle I believe.

 

If it has a DEJ with a low throttle position dead spot... what position is the clip in? Try and raise it a few more clips, but if it's raised a lot already you might try changing.

 

I would buy a DGH and an EEJ and then start experimenting with what works best. Needles are the single most important and most overlooked aspect of the carb. It controls everything in one way or another except for idle, it can also have an affect on WOT as well. If your having a dead lean spot low in the throttle then you either 1) need to raise the needle more, 2) get a smaller diameter needle or 3) get a shorter needle. Well, with a DEJ, you already have the short needle. So, you can get a smaller diameter needle, the DGH which will help mostly from idle to 1/4. The EEJ has more taper and will help richen the 1/4 to 3/4 but mostly from 1/2 to 3/4. They all will affect the other areas a little but it's an experimentation thing with needles, to find one that your bike likes.

 

If it were me, I'd go straight to the DGH with the smaller diameter and raise the needle up. Again, I'm going to say you'll have some troubles getting dead spots out of the low end due to the lack of vacuum with such a large carb. Your likely to never get it perfect with a 39mm, especially w/o porting.

[Snopczynski]

So, does it seem (lean) unresponsive, takes forever to get going?

 

Or, does it seem (rich) burbles, smokes?

 

The DEK needle is 1 step leaner 1/8 to 1/4 throttle.

 

Its a tought one, most the bikes I setup run around a eek needle. Mine has an eel, and I am going to try an eem. Its a pain to do, but lots of times just when you think its running ok, you try a new needle and get it running better.

[bbruischart]

So, does it seem (lean) unresponsive, takes forever to get going?

 

Or, does it seem (rich) burbles, smokes?

 

The DEK needle is 1 step leaner 1/8 to 1/4 throttle.

 

Its a tought one, most the bikes I setup run around a eek needle. Mine has an eel, and I am going to try an eem. Its a pain to do, but lots of times just when you think its running ok, you try a new needle and get it running better.

 

 

It totally cuts out for a brief second right about that time you try to hit it down hard from around 1/4 to 1/2. like 3rd over a hill going for the wheelie. I will play with needle to see if gets better. Richer first. How can I get a good feel for my idle setting. can i fire it on new plugs and let it idle then read them.

[bbruischart]

If it has a DEJ with a low throttle position dead spot... what position is the clip in? Try and raise it a few more clips, but if it's raised a lot already you might try changing.

 

I would buy a DGH and an EEJ and then start experimenting with what works best. Needles are the single most important and most overlooked aspect of the carb. It controls everything in one way or another except for idle, it can also have an affect on WOT as well. If your having a dead lean spot low in the throttle then you either 1) need to raise the needle more, 2) get a smaller diameter needle or 3) get a shorter needle. Well, with a DEJ, you already have the short needle. So, you can get a smaller diameter needle, the DGH which will help mostly from idle to 1/4. The EEJ has more taper and will help richen the 1/4 to 3/4 but mostly from 1/2 to 3/4. They all will affect the other areas a little but it's an experimentation thing with needles, to find one that your bike likes.

 

If it were me, I'd go straight to the DGH with the smaller diameter and raise the needle up. Again, I'm going to say you'll have some troubles getting dead spots out of the low end due to the lack of vacuum with such a large carb. Your likely to never get it perfect with a 39mm, especially w/o porting.

 

Is porting reasonable for a bike with reeds. No airbox. fmf fattys. I run it alot in the sand. Up hills. And at night with my wife on the back. I dont care about gas mileage. I just like to spank raptors. Everyone has em around here. I like banshees and will never buy another quad. I just dont want a huge motor due to the fact that my wife rides it and I need reliable and simple. As much as I can get. The guy at my local shop is cool but I really like your guys input. I use it more than his.

[sredish]

Is porting reasonable for a bike with reeds. No airbox. fmf fattys. I run it alot in the sand. Up hills. And at night with my wife on the back. I dont care about gas mileage. I just like to spank raptors. Everyone has em around here. I like banshees and will never buy another quad. I just dont want a huge motor due to the fact that my wife rides it and I need reliable and simple. As much as I can get. The guy at my local shop is cool but I really like your guys input. I use it more than his.

 

porting is extremely reasonable and a great mod for your stock bore. you can get a good healthy power gain from porting, much like you did with pipes. just be sure to use a reputable porter and be sure he knows what kind of power (low / mid / top) and how/where you ride so he can use that to get you a proper port job. nothing worse than expecting certain power gains and getting something different than you asked for, like asking for an agressive trail port and getting drag port that is a PITA to ride due to the narrow powerband.

 

on the cut out thing, try and raise your needle a little more if you can. if your out of clips to raise it up, get a real small, thin washer and try that. i've had to do that before and works if need be.

Edited September 18, 2007 by sredish

[Snopczynski]

Alot of times people will say they cant feel a difference when they change the needle position. So I will take the bike from them, full rich the needle and ride it, then full lean it and ride it again. That gives me a good indicator of which direction to go with the current needle, and lets me know if it needs to be changed out with a different size needle.

[bbruischart]

Alot of times people will say they cant feel a difference when they change the needle position. So I will take the bike from them, full rich the needle and ride it, then full lean it and ride it again. That gives me a good indicator of which direction to go with the current needle, and lets me know if it needs to be changed out with a different size needle.

 

I did this and it told me more fuel was the answer. The guy at my dealer gave me a chart for needles for this carb. I went with a diff needle. richer from 1/8 to 1/2 I played with that on lean then rich. ended up 1 clip away from as rich as it goes. Did a wot plug test on new plugs. Good result. My plugs look good and Im back in the game. Ended up with a 45 pilot , I dont remember the needle, there is alot of them for that carb. My main is a 182. It runs good and plugs look good. I think I got it. Never new there was so many needles with so many diff tapers to them. Thanks.

[bbruischart]

porting is extremely reasonable and a great mod for your stock bore. you can get a good healthy power gain from porting, much like you did with pipes. just be sure to use a reputable porter and be sure he knows what kind of power (low / mid / top) and how/where you ride so he can use that to get you a proper port job. nothing worse than expecting certain power gains and getting something different than you asked for, like asking for an agressive trail port and getting drag port that is a PITA to ride due to the narrow powerband.

 

on the cut out thing, try and raise your needle a little more if you can. if your out of clips to raise it up, get a real small, thin washer and try that. i've had to do that before and works if need be.

 

 

I am going to go with the port job. Not till this winter. But I talked to the guy at my shop whom does alot of performance banshee, blaster, 250r, and dirtbike stuff. He is going to set me up with a good trail type port. I do alot of diff riding but this is what I do most. Thanks for the idea. I have never really considered doing this. GUy at my local shop said that a shee with pipes, no airbox, reeds and a port is a very powerful combination and will be usable for whatever I want to do except for mud and wet stuff due to my filter being exposed. This is not an issue because I dont like to get it dirty. :biggrin: Thanks.

[sredish]

I am going to go with the port job. Not till this winter. But I talked to the guy at my shop whom does alot of performance banshee, blaster, 250r, and dirtbike stuff. He is going to set me up with a good trail type port. I do alot of diff riding but this is what I do most. Thanks for the idea. I have never really considered doing this. GUy at my local shop said that a shee with pipes, no airbox, reeds and a port is a very powerful combination and will be usable for whatever I want to do except for mud and wet stuff due to my filter being exposed. This is not an issue because I dont like to get it dirty. :biggrin: Thanks.

 

good deal. you should try and find a local bike with that guys porting and see if they'll let you ride it and see how it feels. you'll be super pleased with some good porting, it wakes the bike up considerably.

[sredish]

I did this and it told me more fuel was the answer. The guy at my dealer gave me a chart for needles for this carb. I went with a diff needle. richer from 1/8 to 1/2 I played with that on lean then rich. ended up 1 clip away from as rich as it goes. Did a wot plug test on new plugs. Good result. My plugs look good and Im back in the game. Ended up with a 45 pilot , I dont remember the needle, there is alot of them for that carb. My main is a 182. It runs good and plugs look good. I think I got it. Never new there was so many needles with so many diff tapers to them. Thanks.

 

sounds great, glad you got it dialed in some. yea, there's boatloads of needles and stuff and it all has to work well together and it can get really confusing, so one step at a time is key. anyways, glad you got it figured out.