markyb31 Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 I just bought a 93 banshee and the front rims are cambered in a lot and I want to bring them back closer to straight. Problem is, I can not get the tyrod loose at the rim or the upper a-arm loose. I got the pins and nuts off but what is the trick to getting them loose so I can adjust them. I tried to tap the tyrod end through and it wont move. The a arm will not budge either. Any suggestions? I am a 2 wheel guy so I am new to this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBB Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 (edited) To get the balljoint/tie rod end loose, soak the shit out of it with some penetrating oil (WD40, etc.), like overnight. Then leave the nut on the end of the threads but DO NOT give in to the temptation to hammer on the nut; put a little tension on the rod or a-arm in the direction it's gonna come off (like for the tie rod push down on it) while you smack the spindle with a hammer perpendicular to the tie rod mounting location. So push down on the rod and tap the spindle from the front, the side, and the rear in a horizontal plane. Unless it's reaaaaally rusted (hence the lizard piss the night before) it'll usually pop right off after a few good hits or ten. When you go back together with it make sure to put some never-sieze on the tapered part of the balljoint or tie rod end where it goes into the spindle, doesn't hurt to put some on the threads either. Oh the reason you leave the nut threaded on while you're pushing and hammerin' is so that when it lets loose you don't go flying and bustin' knuckles, and the reason you don't hammer on the nut is because it'll crush the threads where the cotter pin goes through. BTW stock a-arms aren't camber adjustable, but don't have hardly any camber built into them so you've likely got aftermarket a-arms (this is a good thing). In general 4 degrees of negative camber or so is beneficial to handling...just curious why you want to change it, other than just to try it and see what happens or if it's really drastically cambered in... Edited June 25, 2007 by BenBB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyb31 Posted June 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 To get the balljoint/tie rod end loose, soak the shit out of it with some penetrating oil (WD40, etc.), like overnight. Then leave the nut on the end of the threads but DO NOT give in to the temptation to hammer on the nut; put a little tension on the rod or a-arm in the direction it's gonna come off (like for the tie rod push down on it) while you smack the spindle with a hammer perpendicular to the tie rod mounting location. So push down on the rod and tap the spindle from the front, the side, and the rear in a horizontal plane. Unless it's reaaaaally rusted (hence the lizard piss the night before) it'll usually pop right off after a few good hits or ten. When you go back together with it make sure to put some never-sieze on the tapered part of the balljoint or tie rod end where it goes into the spindle, doesn't hurt to put some on the threads either. Oh the reason you leave the nut threaded on while you're pushing and hammerin' is so that when it lets loose you don't go flying and bustin' knuckles, and the reason you don't hammer on the nut is because it'll crush the threads where the cotter pin goes through. BTW stock a-arms aren't camber adjustable, but don't have hardly any camber built into them so you've likely got aftermarket a-arms (this is a good thing). In general 4 degrees of negative camber or so is beneficial to handling...just curious why you want to change it, other than just to try it and see what happens or if it's really drastically cambered in... They are aftermarket arms but there is no name on them, they look like laegers I have seen in a mag before, and the swing arm is laeger so the front might be. To me it looks like there is much more than 4 degrees of camber. I can not really get on the throttle because I am waiting for a new chain roller (missing one) but just cruising around the yard in first it seems to turn like $hit. Maybe it is because of the low speeds. I will try to get a pic up and show it from the front angle and maybe you guys can tell me if it looks like 4 degrees or more. Or if someone can tell me how to measure it that would be great. I have never seen another banshee with this much camber that is why I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBB Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Mine was a WAG heh, about a half inch in at the top of the tire from a vertical level flush with the bottom of the tire. The right way would be an angle finder across the rim. People do some crazy shit though so I wouldn't doubt it if it had a ridiculous amount of camber and didn't handle well...it ain't gonna turn quite like a 450R but it damn sure should handle better than a big-bore 4x4. With a Banshee it's all about wheelspin; just add throttle, lean and if you're in the right gear heh, it'll turn on a dime and give ya eight cents change [insert pavement disclaimer here hahaha!]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Ummmmm, you can't adjust camber on a banshee. You can only adjust toe. If the tires are cambered you have something bent or the a-arm bushings or ball joints are worn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyb31 Posted June 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Ummmmm, you can't adjust camber on a banshee. You can only adjust toe. If the tires are cambered you have something bent or the a-arm bushings or ball joints are worn. I guess it is toe then. In a previous post I had about this subject prior to buying the bike someone corrected me when I said the tires were "toed in" at the top and said it was called camber. I think it was the same person that told me turning the tie rod ends in or out and the upper a arm ball joints in or out adjusted this. I tried this on one side and had some luck getting it back closer to plumb. Is this the way to adjust this? I had to turn the joints out about half way out to make it look right, is this ok to do? I am getting two different answers to this problem and now I am confused When I bought the bike the front tires looked almost like this /---- \ If you can imagine looking at it head on with the slashes being the tires. I would say they are in about 2-3 inches of toe or camber if you were to run a carpenters square up from the bottom of the tire to the top and measured over to the top of the tire. That seems like a lot I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBB Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 That's camber. Snopczynski might not have read that you have aftermarket a-arms; stock a-arms are not camber adjustable. Toe-in refers to the tires angled inwards or outwards when viewed from above, that's adjusted with the tie rods and should be zero or within a half inch. Camber refers to the tires angled inwards or outwards when viewed from the front (in at the top is negative, out is positive, perfectly vertical is zero); 2-3" of negative camber as you describe is way too much, I would adjust it (hopefully with just the upper a-arms at the balljoints) to between 0 and 1" (still negative) and see how she does. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyb31 Posted June 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 I just got done adjusting everything and I got the camber looking a lot better but the tires are still pushed in at the top some. I am afraid to go any further with the a arm ball joints. I have them turned out about half way already. Is this normal to have to turn them out that far to get the tires straight? It seems like that takes strength from where the two connect. It does handle better, but it seems like they should be in further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyb31 Posted June 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 I am beginning to think maybe the a arms are long travel a arms. they do not have a brand on theme but they look just like lonestar long travels I have seen in dirt rider. Is it possible that they could be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBB Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 They might be LT, I don't see 'em listed on Lonestar's website anymore but they may have just quit selling them (like the Outlaw frame). The only difference is the lower shock mounting location and the necessity for longer shocks, but anyway, you may need to adjust the lower balljoints inwards as well to get the camber you're after and to keep the upper balljoint threads in the arm. Personally I wouldn't worry about the uppers as long as the balljoint shank male threads take up the a-arm's female threads (like the end of the threads is flush with the a-arm coupler it goes in to, or has some threads beyond showing), the balljoints are purty stout and it would take a whole lot to snap one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyb31 Posted June 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 They might be LT, I don't see 'em listed on Lonestar's website anymore but they may have just quit selling them (like the Outlaw frame). The only difference is the lower shock mounting location and the necessity for longer shocks, but anyway, you may need to adjust the lower balljoints inwards as well to get the camber you're after and to keep the upper balljoint threads in the arm. Personally I wouldn't worry about the uppers as long as the balljoint shank male threads take up the a-arm's female threads (like the end of the threads is flush with the a-arm coupler it goes in to, or has some threads beyond showing), the balljoints are purty stout and it would take a whole lot to snap one. The lowers are all the way in right now. I dont know what is going on. My front end just looks wider and a lot different than all the banshees on this board. Like I said there is about half the ball joint threads showing. I have not seen this on any other bikes. Maybe I am worried for nothing. I think it handles ok and that is the most important part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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