blowit Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 (edited) BTW.......I would have given jeff from fast a call but i read all the posts on here saying how backed up with work he is .. While this must be due to his great work, and may make people want his work even more ,id bet it scares just as many from even call him..as they dont want a few months down time during peak season .. I think you are a little off in assumptions about the banshee in technical closed coarse racing but you are right about the Banshee needing more work to be competitive. The engine is not as much of a problem as the chassis. The geometry is all wrong and stock to stock, the 450s are hands down winners. A banshee with power valve cylinders is an ass hander on the track but costs a bit to build. The RZ setup is also very hot for 350 classes. The chassis has to go on a diet of about 60lbs to start among a few other things but bubbye when you get it setup right. The Banshee is still a good racer in the right trim. I am not biased though, I raced the 250Rs for years and that is my chassis of choice. My race bike is a full Laeger alky 425 power valve stroker R making 90HP. All that with razor sharp handling, the 450s are a joke to that thing. Brandon Edited May 11, 2007 by blowit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingzofNY Posted May 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 I think you are a little off in assumptions about the banshee in technical closed coarse racing but you are right about the Banshee needing more work to be competitive. The engine is not as much of a problem as the chassis. The geometry is all wrong and stock to stock, the 450s are hands down winners. A banshee with power valve cylinders is an ass hander on the track but costs a bit to build. The RZ setup is also very hot for 350 classes. The chassis has to go on a diet of about 60lbs to start among a few other things but bubbye when you get it setup right. The Banshee is still a good racer in the right trim. I am not biased though, I raced the 250Rs for years and that is my chassis of choice. My race bike is a full Laeger alky 425 power valve stroker R making 90HP. All that with razor sharp handling, the 450s are a joke to that thing. Brandon ..... You may think im off on my assumptions but im just trying to remember if any banshee won a technical closed course race ? .. I rememeber in the late 80s and 90s all you ever read in the winners column was a trx250r.. Im sure if some one digs up some stuff they will find an occasional win here and there but i dont think in the future you will ever hear anyone ever talking about what a great mx bike that banshee was ,wish they still made em .... Dont get me wrong the banshees are competitve in races like the baja 500/1000 and they won the 12 hours of pont de vaux ..... But on tracks where the holeshot is half the race a banshee will rarely win .. im not trying to argue or put banshees down .. I was just saying i now get it ... im never gonna beat up on a 450 in the trails and then still be able to dog him in a drag ... you can try and build a bike to do both but why try .. buy a 4stroke 4 the trails and take the 7mil out to race ... I see alot of posts on here about loosing to 4strokes and everyone is like ...gotta be the rider ... I dont know where you guys ride but these things are getting real quick ..the guy with 450 im dying to beat would catch alot of you by suprise .. the thing leaves like it was shot out of a cannon .. and while we are burning up the tires through 1st and 2nd hes got a nice 5 bike lead on ya .. (on dirt) i know after my motor rebuild im gonna get him by 3rd or 4th .. i hope .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue deuce Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 ....... the thing leaves like it was shot out of a cannon .. and while we are burning up the tires through 1st and 2nd hes got a nice 5 bike lead on ya .. (on dirt) i know after my motor rebuild im gonna get him by 3rd or 4th .. i hope .. not unless you shorten your swingarm, you wont........a 500 horse banshee on a stock swinger(or longer) is going to sit there and spinn, you get a 80hp shee with a cut arm and tall gearing there aint a four stroke that will touch it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Madd Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 (edited) not unless you shorten your swingarm, you wont........a 500 horse banshee on a stock swinger(or longer) is going to sit there and spinn, you get a 80hp shee with a cut arm and tall gearing there aint a four stroke that will touch it...... You got a 10 foot long wheelie bar for that? I get beat on mine by stock 450s for about 10 feet. Hell yeah Banshee's spin but I'm not going shorter than a +6 swinger...........when it does hook, it'd do a couple back flips with a stock swingarm. :yelrotflmao: Edited May 12, 2007 by J-Madd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 You got a 10 foot long wheelie bar for that? I get beat on mine by stock 450s for about 10 feet. Hell yeah Banshee's spin but I'm not going shorter than a +6 swinger...........when it does hook, it'd do a couple back flips with a stock swingarm. :yelrotflmao: The stock geometry of the Banshee was just wrong and in order to make it handle correctly, you move those arms up, swing up, and pegs back to move the CG back in the chassis. You would be surprised what a shortened Banshee does when the suspension is setup for it. The fact is, by moving the CG back, you are putting more weight on the rear tires and helping traction. You also have to make some changes in the caster and camber to keep it from under steering but don't knock it unless you have tried it. You would be surprised. I would say I was totally blown away by how well the stock Y450 worked for me. I was always Honda guy but the 450 handles more like the old R than the new H450. I require precise handling in my race machines and the Y450 just "fit" better for my riding style. Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Madd Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 The stock geometry of the Banshee was just wrong and in order to make it handle correctly, you move those arms up, swing up, and pegs back to move the CG back in the chassis. You would be surprised what a shortened Banshee does when the suspension is setup for it. The fact is, by moving the CG back, you are putting more weight on the rear tires and helping traction. You also have to make some changes in the caster and camber to keep it from under steering but don't knock it unless you have tried it. You would be surprised. I would say I was totally blown away by how well the stock Y450 worked for me. I was always Honda guy but the 450 handles more like the old R than the new H450. I require precise handling in my race machines and the Y450 just "fit" better for my riding style. Brandon I can't comment on all of those changes. I just know that a shorter swinger on a stock frame is not a good idea with a high HP engine. Good info though, never thought about it like that. :beer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooker82 Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 He's gotta put more than that into it to get 70HP.My buddy has a 564 Falicon/Nmotion kit. Cams, Nmotion pipe, programable ignition, lightened flywheel...etc. A LOT of cabbage. Still mid 50's in HP, MIGHT touch 60. Unless he's got a shot in a bottle or a super lightweight drag chassis...a 4 mil cub on gas with an override will hand it to him all day long. Stock vs. stock...or piped vs. piped...a new 450 will beat a banshee. 450s can be made to run...but a banshee can run faster for cheaper. Like Dajogerjr said there is no way he is hitting 70's more like mid 50's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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