Whats the difference between the 450 arms and a set of aftermarket arms?

[dawarriorman]

I'd have to disagree with you there.

 

Elkas > stock YFZ shocks, if you want adjustable then get adjustable elkas instead (or some other shock).

 

The shocks will likely be better setup, and dialed in for the bike (banshee shocks on banshee arms) unless you valving them yourself of course.

 

1) Nothing wrong with Albas arms they are Chromoly! There are other arms out there that are excelent as well, Not some cheap ass, stock heavy Mild steel YFZ arms

2) Percision Conceptz valves shocks for alot of pro riders, they used to re-valve pro's elkas until Elka Starting forcing sponsored riders to use their valving. They are a great company and know their shit.

3)$1000 gets you Chromoly and Somewhat Adjustable Arms, Brake Lines, And Elka Shocks. Vs stock heavy mild steel with crappy stock brake lines, and alot of extra work.

 

Hassles and problems down the line, likely means when you need to rebuild/recharge your shocks. I don't know if YFZ shocks are easily rebuildable or not but if they use the save kinds of seals as the stock rear shock on the banshee all that needs to be replaced and will cost more money.

 

Do it right the first time IMO.

 

Now if I had some old YFZ arms laying around, that would be another story.

 

You get what you pay for...

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

And to add a couple things in there, Alba doesn't make their a-arms, they are made by Epic (goldenwest sells them, as does atvsuspensiontech.com). And the upper yfz a-arms are aluminum.

 

And finally (cuz it seems like a few people still don't get this), yfz a-arms do not change your suspension geometry. The banshee suspension design still sucks no matter what a-arms are on it. Its all in the frame.

[Mullet Man]

lol...

 

again?

 

 

[2003LimitedBanshee]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

And to add a couple things in there, Alba doesn't make their a-arms, they are made by Epic (goldenwest sells them, as does atvsuspensiontech.com). And the upper yfz a-arms are aluminum.

 

And finally (cuz it seems like a few people still don't get this), yfz a-arms do not change your suspension geometry. The banshee suspension design still sucks no matter what a-arms are on it. Its all in the frame.

 

Thank you for pointing out the aluminum uppers, beat me to it. With your comment about the YFZ arms not changing the geomety, I have to assume that you are also pointing out that a set of Alba arms don't do this either? As you said, it's all in the frame.

 

I think the biggest thing to point out here is that yes, if you spend $1600 on a suspension system, it is going to walk over a factory setup. However, my argument is that many people will never use that $1600 setup to its potential. So, if you can give someone a suspension that is light years improved, as far as rideability (not geometry) why not? I can tell you that a 450 front end bike, will run away from the stock bike in any kind of rough stuff. I don't think anyone has ever presented this as a replacement for an expensive package, but merely another option.

[dawarriorman]

Thank you for pointing out the aluminum uppers, beat me to it. With your comment about the YFZ arms not changing the geomety, I have to assume that you are also pointing out that a set of Alba arms don't do this either? As you said, it's all in the frame.

 

I think the biggest thing to point out here is that yes, if you spend $1600 on a suspension system, it is going to walk over a factory setup. However, my argument is that many people will never use that $1600 setup to its potential. So, if you can give someone a suspension that is light years improved, as far as rideability (not geometry) why not? I can tell you that a 450 front end bike, will run away from the stock bike in any kind of rough stuff. I don't think anyone has ever presented this as a replacement for an expensive package, but merely another option.

Because its a hack job.

 

Sure if you do it right, and know what you're doing, it will most likely be fine. But think of all the people that come on here knowing nothing. All the kids not even 18 yet that don't have much if any mechanical experience but think they know/can do anything. And the adults who really just don't know much (sorry, but all of us started somewhere, and had no idea).

 

These people come on here and are bombarded with all kinds of information from everywhere, its overload. Then when you come on here and try to convince everybody that a setup like yfz a-arms is every bit as good as aftermarket (but waay cheaper), they think they've found a gold mine. They take a hack saw, cut the arms until they fit, and the second they can get the bolt through there, they bolt everything up and go riding. And wonder why they wreck.

 

Thats while I'll keep starting this over and over until you all listen. You will convince these people (many of whom have the money and are willing to buy aftermarket arms) that this shortcut is a better solution. And its NOT. Its cheaper yes, but thats it.

[2003LimitedBanshee]

Because its a hack job.

 

Sure if you do it right, and know what you're doing, it will most likely be fine. But think of all the people that come on here knowing nothing. All the kids not even 18 yet that don't have much if any mechanical experience but think they know/can do anything. And the adults who really just don't know much (sorry, but all of us started somewhere, and had no idea).

 

These people come on here and are bombarded with all kinds of information from everywhere, its overload. Then when you come on here and try to convince everybody that a setup like yfz a-arms is every bit as good as aftermarket (but waay cheaper), they think they've found a gold mine. They take a hack saw, cut the arms until they fit, and the second they can get the bolt through there, they bolt everything up and go riding. And wonder why they wreck.

 

Thats while I'll keep starting this over and over until you all listen. You will convince these people (many of whom have the money and are willing to buy aftermarket arms) that this shortcut is a better solution. And its NOT. Its cheaper yes, but thats it.

 

Well, I guess I'll take some offense to that entire statement. First off with the hack job statement, I guarantee I could convince those who didn't know what a stock Banshee front should look like that I had a factory front end on my bike. When I took my bike out to the dunes last weekend, no one commented on it. That tells me I did a good job. They didn't look at and say, "Boy, you really butchered that up to fit didn't you?" And I have friends that would say that! As far as durability, I would put my converted front end up against the stock stuff anyday. Although looking at those a-arms in your avatar, I don't know that I would claim they would hold up to that abuse.

 

Second, I most certainly never tried to tell anyone that it was every bit as good as an aftermarket kit. If you read carefully, which to be clear I think you did and are just trying to illustrate some valid points, I said that the aftermarket kit would stomp even the good YFZ stuff. There is a reason that a set of Elka's with adj. compression, rebound etc. cost upwards of a grand. Some of it is name, but all of those suspensions are first rate without a doubt. Also, I never condoned buying up a set of A-arms and grabbing the hacksaw to do it yourself. I have the tools and experience to do it, so I did and do, but I never said "Hey kids go do this yourself!" Agreed, there are many people that are closer to their bike right now with a wrench than they should be.

 

Last, I will agree that many people have the money and are willing to buy aftermarket. Heck... I'm one of them. Not to be arrogant but I could go buy a set of Lonestars or whatever else you want to throw out there, slap a set of Elka Elite's hi/low speed comp adj on it and drop close to $2K. But I asked myself if I would really use that to it's potential, and for me I decided that I wouldn't. Do the YFZ arms have adjustable camber, caster etc. Nope! Not better in that regards. But really, how many people that drop $2K on the aftermarket stuff I just listed actually take the time to dial it in? My guess is less than 25%. Most just pull it out of the box, bolt it up as fast as they can and ride, just like you said. As far as that goes, in that situation, I would put my YFZ front end up against their untouched, out-of-the-box aftermarket kit through the rough stuff. But if it makes you feel better, everyone listen up. If you spend more money, YES you will CERTAINLY get what you pay for. I'm NOT saying that this option is better than what the aftermarket can offer. It IS cheaper, it IS better than stock, if done right/safely, but NOT necessarily better than what you can get elsewhere.

[cat]

im only 19 so ur saying itl be a hack job? this isnt rocket science man... im not just looking to butcher my banshee. im starting with a POS, and im turning into a legitimate machine like many other people on this forum... im sorry if it seems like im just "playing" with wild ideas, but this looks like a pretty easy mod. Remember: this is a 20 year old atv, not a mercedes-benz turbo diesel supersport magnetic racing machine(idk where i got that idea from:D) but i dont have the money for an all out long travel suspension- im lucky to even afford an 87(college kids spend lots of money now a days)

 

1st problem my shocks are from a 1992 polaris indy 500(for the southerners thats a snowmobile!)

2nd problem i have j arms

instead of buying stock banshee a-arms for my new frame, why not buy yfz ones if theyre better?

i have shocks from a 2000 zr500(once again a snowmobile) which are 1.5 inches longer than the yfz shocks

this will make my 87 ride at the same height as a 450, and increase the travel over the yfz shocks with the stock banshee spindle

im just trying to get the most bang for my buck so i can still afford to enjoy my friday nights.

 

believe me for only spending 150 on a arms and 250 on a frame, i think ive thought this through plenty

it cant turn out worse than what it is now i kno that...unless i start something on fire with my barely 19 year old "mickey mouse" mechanical skills

Edited May 1, 2007 by cat

[shee rips]

Because its a hack job.

 

Sure if you do it right, and know what you're doing, it will most likely be fine. But think of all the people that come on here knowing nothing. All the kids not even 18 yet that don't have much if any mechanical experience but think they know/can do anything. And the adults who really just don't know much (sorry, but all of us started somewhere, and had no idea).

 

These people come on here and are bombarded with all kinds of information from everywhere, its overload. Then when you come on here and try to convince everybody that a setup like yfz a-arms is every bit as good as aftermarket (but waay cheaper), they think they've found a gold mine. They take a hack saw, cut the arms until they fit, and the second they can get the bolt through there, they bolt everything up and go riding. And wonder why they wreck.

 

Thats while I'll keep starting this over and over until you all listen. You will convince these people (many of whom have the money and are willing to buy aftermarket arms) that this shortcut is a better solution. And its NOT. Its cheaper yes, but thats it.

ok first off, I am 18 today, and I've done many top end rebuilds, a couple bottom ends and a couple trannies, and none of it is that big of a deal. Its just a motor. I have "adults" that tell me all the time that they cant believe my "natural" ability of pulling wrenches. so dont start on this shit about kids not knowing anything. theres not much technical work involved in the conversion from what i can see. its not like revalving forks or a shock, its just making some A- arms fit. not rocket science :shoothead:

 

second, I'm smart enough to know that (most of the time) you get what you pay for. this site is a great source of extremely valuable information. nobody is convincing me that yfz arms are as good as something you can get for 1000$. Right now I dont even have the money for a yfz setup, and sure as shit not elkas and the works, so for someone like me the yfz A-arms are a logical chioce. obviously they wont perform as well as a proper setup, but a person also has to ask themselves if they are going to use the potential of a "proper" setup. One day when I'm rich :biggrin: I'll probably buy a top of the line setup, but for now even 3-400$ for a yfz setup is a big chunk of money, and would be a substantial improvement over stock.

 

Also how many problems have you heard of about the conversion(if anyone know of any, I would like to be well informed before I make a decision). you can blow off a corner and eat shit no matter what youre riding, just because someone crashes using that setup it doesnt mean its to blame for anything that happens while you are using it.

 

I realize many people can afford to buy a proper setup and bolt it on and go, and all the power to ya, in fact if you can afford it I would recommend doing it right, but for the rest of us we'll save up to but some yfz shocks :beer:

Edited May 1, 2007 by shee rips

[BenBB]

the second they can get the bolt through there, they bolt everything up and go riding.

 

I do that

[Trick2stroke]

lol, the part you're cutting isn't even under much stress, Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not sure how you could even hack it up to not be useable unless you were a complete and literal retard. Which if that's the case you don't need to be riding a banshee.

 

I haven't looked into this mod but from what I've gathered the only modifaction you have to do is cut alittle of the tubing away for the arms to slip into the banshee mounts. How is that difficult for a teenager or even someone with limited experience? Only problem I can see with it is someone not having the proper tools to make the modifaction, there's not much skill involved from my point of veiw.

[racer]

ok first off, I am 18 today, and I've done many......trannies,

GROSS!

 

haha, sorry.

[racer]

Well, I guess I'll take some offense to that entire statement. First off with the hack job statement, I guarantee I could convince those who didn't know what a stock Banshee front should look like that I had a factory front end on my bike.

Thats because it is a factory front end. Swap it for some Doug Roll parts and Im sure you will get some feedback.

[Justintoxicated]

They are easy to service Justin. I have one of mine sitting here on the left side of my desk. It already had the coil off, but the only other tools I needed to get to the valving was a screwdriver to let the nitrogen out of the reservoir and a pick to remove the circlip. Very simple to service.

 

Good to hear thats a step in the right direction

[2003LimitedBanshee]

Thats because it is a factory front end. Swap it for some Doug Roll parts and Im sure you will get some feedback.

 

What I was referencing there was that it is possible to do the work and have it look like a factory install, not trick them into thinking it was a factory part, which obviously it is. That was meant as a response to dawarrior's reference to it being a hack job.

[dawarriorman]

ok first off, I am 18 today, and I've done many top end rebuilds, a couple bottom ends and a couple trannies, and none of it is that big of a deal. Its just a motor. I have "adults" that tell me all the time that they cant believe my "natural" ability of pulling wrenches. so dont start on this shit about kids not knowing anything. theres not much technical work involved in the conversion from what i can see. its not like revalving forks or a shock, its just making some A- arms fit. not rocket science :shoothead:

 

second, I'm smart enough to know that (most of the time) you get what you pay for. this site is a great source of extremely valuable information. nobody is convincing me that yfz arms are as good as something you can get for 1000$. Right now I dont even have the money for a yfz setup, and sure as shit not elkas and the works, so for someone like me the yfz A-arms are a logical chioce. obviously they wont perform as well as a proper setup, but a person also has to ask themselves if they are going to use the potential of a "proper" setup. One day when I'm rich :biggrin: I'll probably buy a top of the line setup, but for now even 3-400$ for a yfz setup is a big chunk of money, and would be a substantial improvement over stock.

 

Also how many problems have you heard of about the conversion(if anyone know of any, I would like to be well informed before I make a decision). you can blow off a corner and eat shit no matter what youre riding, just because someone crashes using that setup it doesnt mean its to blame for anything that happens while you are using it.

 

I realize many people can afford to buy a proper setup and bolt it on and go, and all the power to ya, in fact if you can afford it I would recommend doing it right, but for the rest of us we'll save up to but some yfz shocks :beer:

 

Did I ever mention your name? Did I even try to imply that I was talking about you? NO

 

I didn't say ALL teenagers, I was talking about the ones that come on here asking what a powerband is. The ones that don't necessarily even reply to a thread like this, but think its a good idea and go try it. The kind of people that won't think to put the dust caps on the arms, or forget the bushings. Theres plenty of ways to screw this up. Notice I said "Sure if you do it right, and know what you're doing, it will most likely be fine."

[vitovito240]

dawarriorman,

it seems like you always have something negative to say esp. when it has to do with people on this forum trying to build a better front end for the banshee. Last time you it was about bumpsteer in another thread, now its about the yfz 450 a arm swap. Not to mention the knocking of alot of hq members saying they dont have the know how to work on bikes because of there age.

get over it. you seem to know alot about banshees but sometimes you go over the top. your not the end say all about the a arm swap out. let that be known. this is a new concept so lets check it out and see what happens.

I give props to mullet man for his great write up on this subject. Also give props to many of the hqers who dared to try it and test it out. 2003limitedbanshee is also moveing forward for the development of this subject and i hope he continues. i hope your insults dont stop him from keeping the ball moveing in the advancement of the swap out.

and one more thing some of these younger hq members who you dont think have the know how to work on bikes are the same people that will continue to keep advancing this outdated bike to todays standards.