Michael Jackson Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 so are the yfz basically a +2 on each side like another set of +2's or are they wider? im asking becuase i have works shocks coming valved and built for +2 a-arms, but the 450 arms look like they are wider and it looks like the shock mounts are farther out, obvisouly generating more leverage correct? would i be able to use this works shock built for +2 with the yfz 450 a arms? or would it sit real low too the ground ? will the works shock be the same lemght as a standard banshee shock or longer cause its for +2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003LimitedBanshee Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 so are the yfz basically a +2 on each side like another set of +2's or are they wider?im asking becuase i have works shocks coming valved and built for +2 a-arms, but the 450 arms look like they are wider and it looks like the shock mounts are farther out, obvisouly generating more leverage correct? would i be able to use this works shock built for +2 with the yfz 450 a arms? or would it sit real low too the ground ? will the works shock be the same lemght as a standard banshee shock or longer cause its for +2? When I converted mine over I found basically +2.25" difference between the stock side and the 450 side. I made this measurement by measuring from frame rail out to the inside edge of the wheel on both sides. I haven't measured, but I could compare to another stock bike, the length from the frame rail to the lower shock mount (horizontally, not including drop) to determine shock position. I can tell you just from the angle of the shock that it is farther out than stock, but how much or compared to Banshee +2 arms I'm not sure. We'd need someone with +2 Banshee arms giving the same measurement to determine that. Unfortunately, even if we compare shock length that doesn't guarantee that it will work because of that lower shock mount position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jackson Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 when u say u found +2 1/4" on the 450 side compared to the stock side, did the 450 armed side have the 450 shock mounted with it or the stock length shock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003LimitedBanshee Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 (edited) when u say u found +2 1/4" on the 450 side compared to the stock side, did the 450 armed side have the 450 shock mounted with it or the stock length shock? I did have the 450 shocks mounted as well and the bike was sitting at ride height. Sorry I should have mentioned that... EDIT: Also, from your first post I forgot to address the shock angle question you posed. The primary reason for moving the lower shock mount out is that you can achieve longer travel at the spindle from the same length shock as compared to a more vertical mounting. If you think about a shock being mounted exactly vertical you travel is limited to the stroke of your shock, directly. However, if you lay the shock over slightly, since you are now moving in an arc, you get more spindle travel from the same shock travel. It's can be kind of hard to invision if you haven't worked with suspension to a good extent, so hopefully that makes sense. If so, I'm not trying to insult anyone by the last statement, I just know it took me a while to grasp when I started working with suspension. Edited April 17, 2007 by 2003LimitedBanshee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jackson Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 ok so with the 450 length shock in there it added 2 1/4" ... so with stock length works shocks, its gona make it even wider and lower right? and would then also feel very soft since technically it would be more than +2 and they are valved/sprung for +2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003LimitedBanshee Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 ok so with the 450 length shock in there it added 2 1/4" ... so with stock length works shocks, its gona make it even wider and lower right? and would then also feel very soft since technically it would be more than +2 and they are valved/sprung for +2 Technically yes it will make it wider. However, you will likely (depends on where in the a-arm arc it causes the suspension to fall) see decreased suspension travel. As far as softness, I believe it should also make it softer. I don't know what the geometry is going to end up like, but I might be concerned with maxing out the ball joints... :ermm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jackson Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 yea screw it. ill just get some +2 arms built for a banshee then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIM_Whiteboy4life Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 So let me get this straight, its better to have the shock angled slightly forward than straight up and down or the other way around. im cuttin the mounting ends off and rewelding them for a factory look and better clearance for the grease fittings. Im not trying to thread jack by any means but no one is in the chatroom to talk about it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003LimitedBanshee Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 So let me get this straight, its better to have the shock angled slightly forward than straight up and down or the other way around. im cuttin the mounting ends off and rewelding them for a factory look and better clearance for the grease fittings. Im not trying to thread jack by any means but no one is in the chatroom to talk about it..... No not forward but laying on it's side. So from the center of the bike the bottom mount is further from the centerline than the top. If the shock was vertical, no difference from centerline top or bottom, you are not maximizing the suspension travel with that shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mullet Man Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 looking at the quad from the front. not like this (l) less travel. but like this (\) more travel. the shock in essence has an out and up swing effect as well as the length of cylinder travel. where as when it is upright, it only has the cylinder travel. in stock Banshee case, very small amount of swing. cylinder travel= whatever the hell the steel bar is inside the shock and how much distance it covers lol. crude defintions on my part, so sorry. i think anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jackson Posted April 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 ok well thanks for all the input, im just gona get some +2 arms that are made FOR a banshee, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003LimitedBanshee Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 looking at the quad from the front.not like this (l) less travel. but like this (\) more travel. the shock in essence has an out and up swing effect as well as the length of cylinder travel. where as when it is upright, it only has the cylinder travel. in stock Banshee case, very small amount of swing. cylinder travel= whatever the hell the steel bar is inside the shock and how much distance it covers lol. crude defintions on my part, so sorry. i think anyway. Well put for basic definitions. Nice work on the l and \ . Didn't think of that. Michael, you can do that and if you already have shocks designed for +2 banshee arms that may be the best route. Keep in mind that what is being talked about in some of the other threads is a total package, designed to work with the parts for that package. Your comment kind of made me think you feel it is a bad package, it isn't. It's just that as with anything, it works best when all the parts designed to be used in conjunction are. If I misread your comment... :beer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokinit Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 sorry for the late reply/interest in this topic...but i have the opportunity to buy yfz shocks and a arms for 400 dollars....is it worth it? and how much fabrication is to be expected to set them up on the shee?...thanks for any info you can give....vinnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlocal22 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 vinnie the yfz 450 a arms are worth it. however i think you would be better off buying a differnet shock, one thats a little longer than the 450 shock. this will give you your stock ride hieght back. if you look at alot of the pics who have done the swap you will notice there front ends alittle lower than its suppose to be. this is why a longer shock would be better. 400 for both is an average price. your not getting a great deal at that price. I think i paid 175 includeing shipping. anyways im doing the a arm swap and i will have the exact measurement for the shock needed to get the bike back to its original ride height. i will then find some aftermarcket shocks at that length and bolt them on. as far as fabrication you will need to do alittle cutting with the a arms and some grinding with the shocks. another reason why i dont care for those shocks being put on a banshee. there are alot of different shocks out there thaat you will not have to modify to fit on. hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003LimitedBanshee Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 vinnie the yfz 450 a arms are worth it. however i think you would be better off buying a differnet shock, one thats a little longer than the 450 shock. this will give you your stock ride hieght back. if you look at alot of the pics who have done the swap you will notice there front ends alittle lower than its suppose to be. this is why a longer shock would be better. 400 for both is an average price. your not getting a great deal at that price. I think i paid 175 includeing shipping. anyways im doing the a arm swap and i will have the exact measurement for the shock needed to get the bike back to its original ride height. i will then find some aftermarcket shocks at that length and bolt them on. as far as fabrication you will need to do alittle cutting with the a arms and some grinding with the shocks. another reason why i dont care for those shocks being put on a banshee. there are alot of different shocks out there thaat you will not have to modify to fit on. hope this helps Peter is right in many regards on this post. $400 would not be any kind of special deal. The best packaged price I've gotten so far has been $280, $100 for arms, $180 for the shocks. So I would probably keep looking at that price. As far as the work that is involved I don't feel it is that extensive, but I have a pretty full shop of tools to work with. If you have a metal cutoff saw and a few basic grinders it is no problem. I'm actually working on some jigs for my saw so that I can get perfectly repeatable results on the a-arms and may very possibly be offering pre-fabbed kits for sale. Also, as Peterlocal mentioned the bike will sit lower with the YFZ Shocks, but at least initially I don't think it is a bad conversion. True, eventually you would benefit from having the proper length shocks. As far as modding the shocks go, you can actually easily avoid modding the shocks by clearancing the top shock mount on the frame. I guarantee you that you could never tell that mine had been modified. It take a very small amount of metal removal to allow for the 450 shocks. If I do end up offering kits for sale, they may be packaged with Works shocks built with the proper length to restore factory ride height. :beer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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