Guess my Dyno

[FireHead]

So what exactly are you arguing with me about?

 

you just don't like me.

 

I am not sure that I was arguing, mostly I was just expectorating information. :thumbsup:

[FireHead]

Man, it take you a long time to respond to questions when it's obvious your online. Could it be that we are researching our answers on the internet.

Yeah, you worked at a dyno shop. Cause all this would be common knowledge for someone of your credentials.

 

Like I said, it's not really a dyno shop that I work at.

[dajogejr]

So what your saying here is that you can tell what is going on with an engine at cruise, or in mid range, or wherever other than WOT. And even then it's just a guess.

 

Plug reading is old school tuning and anyone who says its better than the new techonolgy we have at our disposal is, well, oldschool.

 

When you race a bike that was tuned properly, or god forbid a fuel injected bike, with the same mods you have and he blows your fenders off... Then you will know what I am talking about.

 

Apply it to cars, apply it to bikes, apply it to your lawn mower. Wideband tuning (with EGT's) is FAR superior to plug reading. PERIOD.

 

Yep, since I understand carbs, how they work, what circuit does what and how they overlap each other, that is EXACTLY what I am saying.

It's not like I jumped on my first bike a week ago...I've been doing this for a long, long time. Before technology was around...and guess what...it worked back then too. Although technology has moved leaps and bounds in the last decade or so...the basic design of the RZ/RD/Banshee motor has not. So what worked back then, still works just fine now.

 

 

 

When doing a Banshee engine, I am looking at A/F via an 02 sensor, EGT near the exhaust port, cylinder pressure, general weather station data (air temp, pressure, humidity, etc.), fuel flow to the engine, air flow to the engine, knock, crank case temperature, spark timing, rpm (back calculated through the transmission), and of course engine load. :thumbsup:

 

 

Exactly....thank you. Use your wideband 02 or whatever you need to do OJ since you can't take the time to comprehend what circuits in the carbs do, how they work in conjunction with each other, etc.

If you want to use the cliff notes version of tuning, so be it.

 

I've been doing this long enough and have enough experience under my belt I don't have to...

[ojcool]

When doing a Banshee engine, I am looking at A/F via an 02 sensor, EGT near the exhaust port, cylinder pressure, general weather station data (air temp, pressure, humidity, etc.), fuel flow to the engine, air flow to the engine, knock, crank case temperature, spark timing, rpm (back calculated through the transmission), and of course engine load. :thumbsup:

Really, if you worked at a dyno shop you would know that SAE corrected would take into account 90% of what you just posted. How exactly are you going to measure cylinder pressure during a dyno run? Fuel flow huh, well not to say it impossible, but totally impractical. You would have to design a flow meter and calibrate it to function with some kind of data logging software. Then take you bike off the dyno, put a completely stock one on, then take measurements from it.... on and on and on.

 

Spark timing huh? How exactly would you execute that with a stock CDI?

 

RPM is easy, pretty much goes without saying.

 

Crank case temp.... Ok, sure I guess you could measure that. But how exactly is that going to help you tune?

 

EGT, Ok, sure you CAN do that, but I don't think your client is going to like it too much when you drill a hole in his 400+ dollar pipes to put in an EGT probe.

[FireHead]

Exactly....thank you. Use your wideband 02 or whatever you need to do OJ since you can't take the time to comprehend what circuits in the carbs do, how they work in conjunction with each other, etc.

If you want to use the cliff notes version of tuning, so be it.

 

I've been doing this long enough and have enough experience under my belt I don't have to...

 

I'd let you tune one of my bikes any time. :thumbsup:

[ojcool]

Yep, since I understand carbs, how they work, what circuit does what and how they overlap each other, that is EXACTLY what I am saying.

It's not like I jumped on my first bike a week ago...I've been doing this for a long, long time. Before technology was around...and guess what...it worked back then too. Although technology has moved leaps and bounds in the last decade or so...the basic design of the RZ/RD/Banshee motor has not. So what worked back then, still works just fine now.

Exactly....thank you. Use your wideband 02 or whatever you need to do OJ since you can't take the time to comprehend what circuits in the carbs do, how they work in conjunction with each other, etc.

If you want to use the cliff notes version of tuning, so be it.

 

I've been doing this long enough and have enough experience under my belt I don't have to...

Yep, Oldschool. Well, your going to have to learn how to use fuel injection everntually. It's coming... Have you ever tuned a bike on a wideband? No, so how exactly can you possibly make the statement that you can get a bike closer?

 

Going to outhink the computer huh?

[ojcool]

And BTW how exaclty do you explain your statment that you should richen your fuel mixture for elevation? I mean, you have been tuning bikes forever. Apparently not that long since no bike you ever tuned went to a higher elevation.

 

What about your crankcase statments? Are you taking all your made up engine physics into account on every bike?

 

I'm the dumbass though.

 

I noticed alot of guys dropped off of this thread lately. I do expect alot of input tomorrow or so after we have had time to do research on the internet.... Then well all be experts...

[dajogejr]

I'm the dumbass though.

 

I'm sorry you had to take so much time typing to finally come to the conclusion in 4 short words, we already all knew that.

Obviously, you can bump up posts that are months old...but you sure can't read them.

 

I've explained it, in detail...many times.... So, I don't feel the need to waste any more time. Just like those that "dropped off" this thread. They can only laugh at you for so long, as I am...now I'm gonna help other people...why you try to justify just what a dumbass what a dumb ass we all already know you are....

 

Good luck...wideband man.... Eye of the Tiger, brain of a snail.

[okbeast]

Man you'd argue with a fuckin brick wall wouldnt you? ::

 

I haven't been on here long but I sure as hell know that 2 guys that know what they're talkin about is dajo and firehead...so they're not exactly the one's you want to bump heads with.

 

Hell, I feel like I've been here long enough and worked on my bike enough that I could tune a bike better then you could based on some of the shit you're feedin right now.

[FireHead]

Really, if you worked at a dyno shop you would know that SAE corrected would take into account 90% of what you just posted. How exactly are you going to measure cylinder pressure during a dyno run? Fuel flow huh, well not to say it impossible, but totally impractical. You would have to design a flow meter and calibrate it to function with some kind of data logging software. Then take you bike off the dyno, put a completely stock one on, then take measurements from it.... on and on and on.

 

Spark timing huh? How exactly would you execute that with a stock CDI?

 

RPM is easy, pretty much goes without saying.

 

Crank case temp.... Ok, sure I guess you could measure that. But how exactly is that going to help you tune?

 

EGT, Ok, sure you CAN do that, but I don't think your client is going to like it too much when you drill a hole in his 400+ dollar pipes to put in an EGT probe.

 

First of all, the SAE correction process is a way to normalize test results and methodology. It isn't a coefficient by which you multiply anything. I am curious as to what you think SAE corrected means?

 

I don't have to design a fuel flow meter, there are a ton of them commercially made. You just have to choose the proper one for the amount of fuel you are expection to flow and plumb it in line between the fuel source and carbs. A propely equipped dyno should at least have the ability to simultaneously monitor 20 data sources.

 

Cylinder pressure can be done several ways. You can have a transducer that screws on under the spark plug or in a more dedicated fashion you can manufacture a separate port in the cylinder (onlys needs to be 20 microns in dia. or so)

 

I am not sure what you are talking about with regards to putting a stock Banshee on the dyno and then putting the motor that you are going to test on the dyno. Are you talking about trying to compare a stock Banshee to your motor? What useful information does that get you?

 

Crank temperature is a huge factor in two stroke engine performance. A thermocouple or an MDTS sensore is all that is needed there.

 

AN EGT sensor can be done several ways, the most operator friendly is what you mentioned. The most appearance concious owner, friendly method is a small wireless probe (very expensive) that is place in a non restrictive manner in the exhaust stream.

Spark timing is easy, you have several options from inductive pick-ups to a shunt wired to the negative side of the coil.

[ojcool]

Exactly, no answer.

[FireHead]

Exactly, no answer.

 

What you talkin 'bout Willis?

[okbeast]

First of all, the SAE correction process is a way to normalize test results and methodology. It isn't a coefficient by which you multiply anything. I am curious as to what you think SAE corrected means?

 

I don't have to design a fuel flow meter, there are a ton of them commercially made. You just have to choose the proper one for the amount of fuel you are expection to flow and plumb it in line between the fuel source and carbs. A propely equipped dyno should at least have the ability to simultaneously monitor 20 data sources.

 

Cylinder pressure can be done several ways. You can have a transducer that screws on under the spark plug or in a more dedicated fashion you can manufacture a separate port in the cylinder (onlys needs to be 20 microns in dia. or so)

 

I am not sure what you are talking about with regards to putting a stock Banshee on the dyno and then putting the motor that you are going to test on the dyno. Are you talking about trying to compare a stock Banshee to your motor? What useful information does that get you?

 

Crank temperature is a huge factor in two stroke engine performance. A thermocouple or an MDTS sensore is all that is needed there.

 

AN EGT sensor can be done several ways, the most operator friendly is what you mentioned. The most appearance concious owner, friendly method is a small wireless probe (very expensive) that is place in a non restrictive manner in the exhaust stream.

Spark timing is easy, you have several options from inductive pick-ups to a shunt wired to the negative side of the coil.

 

 

Dude, you just got PWNED :yelrotflmao:

[ojcool]

First of all, the SAE correction process is a way to normalize test results and methodology. It isn't a coefficient by which you multiply anything. I am curious as to what you think SAE corrected means?

 

I don't have to design a fuel flow meter, there are a ton of them commercially made. You just have to choose the proper one for the amount of fuel you are expection to flow and plumb it in line between the fuel source and carbs. A propely equipped dyno should at least have the ability to simultaneously monitor 20 data sources.

 

Cylinder pressure can be done several ways. You can have a transducer that screws on under the spark plug or in a more dedicated fashion you can manufacture a separate port in the cylinder (onlys needs to be 20 microns in dia. or so)

 

I am not sure what you are talking about with regards to putting a stock Banshee on the dyno and then putting the motor that you are going to test on the dyno. Are you talking about trying to compare a stock Banshee to your motor? What useful information does that get you?

 

Crank temperature is a huge factor in two stroke engine performance. A thermocouple or an MDTS sensore is all that is needed there.

 

AN EGT sensor can be done several ways, the most operator friendly is what you mentioned. The most appearance concious owner, friendly method is a small wireless probe (very expensive) that is place in a non restrictive manner in the exhaust stream.

Spark timing is easy, you have several options from inductive pick-ups to a shunt wired to the negative side of the coil.

Yep, you worked at a dyno shop. Exactly what you you use to measure 20 different sources? It's possible, but thats exacly why I was speaking so highly of the shop I worked at.

 

Do, tell what ecxaclty do you use to measure these different probes, how do they work? You don't know. All you know is how to search the internet.

 

Oh, and measuring timing..... nevermind. You don't seem very practical in your knowledge.

[ojcool]

First of all, the SAE correction process is a way to normalize test results and methodology. It isn't a coefficient by which you multiply anything. I am curious as to what you think SAE corrected means?

 

I don't have to design a fuel flow meter, there are a ton of them commercially made. You just have to choose the proper one for the amount of fuel you are expection to flow and plumb it in line between the fuel source and carbs. A propely equipped dyno should at least have the ability to simultaneously monitor 20 data sources.

 

Cylinder pressure can be done several ways. You can have a transducer that screws on under the spark plug or in a more dedicated fashion you can manufacture a separate port in the cylinder (onlys needs to be 20 microns in dia. or so)

 

I am not sure what you are talking about with regards to putting a stock Banshee on the dyno and then putting the motor that you are going to test on the dyno. Are you talking about trying to compare a stock Banshee to your motor? What useful information does that get you?

 

Crank temperature is a huge factor in two stroke engine performance. A thermocouple or an MDTS sensore is all that is needed there.

 

AN EGT sensor can be done several ways, the most operator friendly is what you mentioned. The most appearance concious owner, friendly method is a small wireless probe (very expensive) that is place in a non restrictive manner in the exhaust stream.

Spark timing is easy, you have several options from inductive pick-ups to a shunt wired to the negative side of the coil.

Just plumb in a flow sensor huh? Yeah, that works. Exaclty why would you want to know how much fuel is flowing on a NON fuel pump equipped engine? I guess to see that the engine is starving for fuel right, is that your idea? Well, you would already KNOW that if you were using wideband 02 sensors. If there was a fuel pump involved, well you would check fuel pressure. Not flow. Unless of course you felt that the fuel pump or line was not capable of flowing the needed fuel. But then again, you would see that with the a/f ratio as well as the fuel pressure, cause SURPRISE it drops when the pump or pump/line cannot keep up.