FireHead Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 LOL i like this comment....... I would not say that the "lean is mean" theory is bullshit... I agree. That statement is total b.s. Many people beleive that though. I am not really sure where it comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 As I just posted, I think we ought to open a new thread in regards to engine tuning utensils. To give a bit of a preview on what I might have to say in rgards to the wideband 02 sensor: I disagree that a plug chop is the best way to tune an engine. However it is athe best way for a common person to do it (it's inexpensive, doesn't require much talent, provides immediate results, and does not require complicated interpretation of the results). On the other hand, a wideband 02 sensor alone is not the best way to go as you will need some more information besides that in addition to needing to be able to apply a load to the motor. If we can kick up a new thread I will post what I feel is the best way to tune an engine with out the restriction of cost or technical knowledge. :thumbsup: I did say in one of those posts, I'm sure the genius could point out....wideband 02 is a good way to get a baseline feel for your jetting. However, unless you take it with you...and keep it mounted on the bike, too many variables come into play, i.e. temps, altitude, load (rider weight, terrain, etc.) among other things. I've never said wideband 02 is NOT the way to go...rather it is not the ONLY way to go.... I don't think he is capable of having or carrying on a normal thread...sooner or later, his meds will wear off and he'll start crying like a little girl. Hoping for a normal thread with him is just never going to happen. If you say he's wrong in one little thing, he'll ask for his toys back....no matter how many people AGREE that he's wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansh-eman Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 although oj is a fukin moron... i do have to give it to him/// his post have to carry some sort of viewed records... 3050 .. nicly done... he reminds me of Tom leykis on free fm. everything he says is pretty much wrong in one way or another but man its entertainment at its finest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojcool Posted March 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 I agree. That statement is total b.s. Many people beleive that though. I am not really sure where it comes from. Well it comes from the fact that an engine will make ALOT more power on the edge than it could ever make rich. You want to give an engine just enough fuel to make the most power it can without detonating. Thats why tuning with a wideband is alot more accurate than guessing with plug reading. Think about it.. Do you see Nascar or top fuel drag cars reading plugs? No, you see wideband 02 sensors on every cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojcool Posted March 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 I did say in one of those posts, I'm sure the genius could point out....wideband 02 is a good way to get a baseline feel for your jetting. However, unless you take it with you...and keep it mounted on the bike, too many variables come into play, i.e. temps, altitude, load (rider weight, terrain, etc.) among other things. I've never said wideband 02 is NOT the way to go...rather it is not the ONLY way to go.... I don't think he is capable of having or carrying on a normal thread...sooner or later, his meds will wear off and he'll start crying like a little girl. Hoping for a normal thread with him is just never going to happen. If you say he's wrong in one little thing, he'll ask for his toys back....no matter how many people AGREE that he's wrong.... So what your saying here is that you can tell what is going on with an engine at cruise, or in mid range, or wherever other than WOT. And even then it's just a guess. Plug reading is old school tuning and anyone who says its better than the new techonolgy we have at our disposal is, well, oldschool. When you race a bike that was tuned properly, or god forbid a fuel injected bike, with the same mods you have and he blows your fenders off... Then you will know what I am talking about. Apply it to cars, apply it to bikes, apply it to your lawn mower. Wideband tuning (with EGT's) is FAR superior to plug reading. PERIOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Think about it.. Do you see Nascar or top fuel drag cars reading plugs? Yes. By saying that, I am certainly not saying that we don't use other methods. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojcool Posted March 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 although oj is a fukin moron... i do have to give it to him/// his post have to carry some sort of viewed records... 3050 .. nicly done... he reminds me of Tom leykis on free fm. everything he says is pretty much wrong in one way or another but man its entertainment at its finest Really? You think because you put an image of a two stroke engine working makes you some kind of expert on internal combustion engine physics? I have YET to see you post anything contradicting ANYTHING I have said. You in fact have quoted ME. I guess that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 I did say in one of those posts, I'm sure the genius could point out....wideband 02 is a good way to get a baseline feel for your jetting. However, unless you take it with you...and keep it mounted on the bike, too many variables come into play, i.e. temps, altitude, load (rider weight, terrain, etc.) among other things. Right. In order for th 02 sensor method to be effective, you need to be acquiring data from several other sources and be able to load the engine in some way or another. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojcool Posted March 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Yes. By saying that, I am certainly not saying that we don't use other methods. :thumbsup: Really? Give me one exaple of someone who races professionally who reads plugs in lieu of useing a wideband 02 sensor. And they have to acutally WIN races. Not some halfbreed that built his grandma's old malibu wagon. Answer, none. You may see someone pull a plug or two when they have no other choice, but if they are tuning an engine, they use widebands on a dyno. At the track, no other choice, sure, look at the plugs, what else you gonna do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Do me a favor; don't use anything I say in your quest for acceptance. I am pretty sure that Bansh-eman doesn't need to work for acceptance around here. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojcool Posted March 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Right. In order for th 02 sensor method to be effective, you need to be acquiring data from several other sources and be able to load the engine in some way or another. :thumbsup: Why don't you elaborate on what else you need? Are we talking about cars here, or banshees? If it's a banshee, well, your pretty much limited to a/f ratio. Maybe engine temp, but thats pretty much it. But you worked at a dyno shop right? What else are you going to measure on a banshee? So what other sources are required to obtian 02 sensor readings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Really? Give me one exaple of someone who races professionally who reads plugs in lieu of useing a wideband 02 sensor. And they have to acutally WIN races. Not some halfbreed that built his grandma's old malibu wagon. Answer, none. You may see someone pull a plug or two when they have no other choice, but if they are tuning an engine, they use widebands on a dyno. At the track, no other choice, sure, look at the plugs, what else you gonna do? No one reads plugs in lieu of other tuning utensils, but it is done in addition to several other things by pretty much every one who races professionally. Past that, why would you be limited to having to read plugs at the track when you can do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojcool Posted March 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 No one reads plugs in lieu of other tuning utensils, but it is done in addition to several other things by pretty much every one who races professionally. Past that, why would you be limited to having to read plugs at the track when you can do this? So what exactly are you arguing with me about? you just don't like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Why don't you elaborate on what else you need? Are we talking about cars here, or banshees? If it's a banshee, well, your pretty much limited to a/f ratio. Maybe engine temp, but thats pretty much it. But you worked at a dyno shop right? What else are you going to measure on a banshee? So what other sources are required to obtian 02 sensor readings? When doing a Banshee engine, I am looking at A/F via an 02 sensor, EGT near the exhaust port, cylinder pressure, general weather station data (air temp, pressure, humidity, etc.), fuel flow to the engine, air flow to the engine, knock, crank case temperature, spark timing, rpm (back calculated through the transmission), and of course engine load. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojcool Posted March 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Man, it take you a long time to respond to questions when it's obvious your online. Could it be that we are researching our answers on the internet. Yeah, you worked at a dyno shop. Cause all this would be common knowledge for someone of your credentials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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