Works 16.25" shocks on stock A-Arms?

[trail rider]

if those are the same kind of works shocks I got on my 250r then you might be able to use em without any trouble. do they have like a clip type preload adjustment thing on the top? it looks like a bunch of little grooves that this little c clip thing sets in. you could be able to just set the preload as soft as posible so that it gives you alot of sag in the front end and that way the front end wont be as high

[ThE_BaNsHeE_mAn88]

if those are the same kind of works shocks I got on my 250r then you might be able to use em without any trouble. do they have like a clip type preload adjustment thing on the top? it looks like a bunch of little grooves that this little c clip thing sets in. you could be able to just set the preload as soft as posible so that it gives you alot of sag in the front end and that way the front end wont be as high

ya but they arnt going to fit on the stock a-arms he is going to have to by long travel a arms to beable to use them.and he wants to use them on the stock a arms till he can get other ones.

[dawarriorman]

Dude, this is a very ignorant thing to say (and by ignorant I mean the true definition, uninformed). Cutting down the 450 arms in no way weakens them. Have you even looked at the pictures of what or where is cut? I am a mechanical engineer, and I will guarantee that this modification in no way affects the strength or integrity of the a-arms.

 

I cannot comment yet on how well the a-arm swap performs because I have not ridden on this setup yet. But I do know for a FACT that the arms are not weakened as you stated.

Really, how did you cut them? Did it get hot? Steel is tempered, very specifically. You start heating stuff up a few hundred degrees, and you screw that up. Thats why welds are the weakest part, the welding took the temper out of the steel. You want to go cheap and hack stuff together thats fine with me, go for it.

 

As far as were I am (whoever asked that), Im nowhere near you, and don't really care. I still don't have a-arms yet, cuz Im saving my money. My shocks are valved for +2 arms, and they suck right now unless Im on a track, in which case they feel great. But even then its still not even close to what it will be with a-arms. I've ridden on peoples high dollar setups and I know what it feels like. Combine a-arms from one quad to anothers frame and you have a setup no shock is valved for. No matter what, its not going to be the same.

 

If all of you want to do this fine, but Im telling you, you would be happier saving your money and just waiting.

Edited February 12, 2007 by dawarriorman

[charles_in_houston]

if those are the same kind of works shocks I got on my 250r then you might be able to use em without any trouble. do they have like a clip type preload adjustment thing on the top? it looks like a bunch of little grooves that this little c clip thing sets in. you could be able to just set the preload as soft as posible so that it gives you alot of sag in the front end and that way the front end wont be as high

 

Yes those are exactly the ones. How do you lower the preload? I'm assuming you needs some sort of spring compressor to get at it or it must be done at the Works factory. With the preload how it is now I can't get them to fit. When I remove the stock shock, the a-arms won't expand enough to allow the shock to go in. That's why I was originally asking about the lowering kit which moves the bottom of the shock out and down which looks like it might work. I just don't know about the extra angle of the shock that gets added and what that would do.

 

Help me understand how I can reduce the preload myself and I will give that a shot for the temp fix. Will that make the ride too soft? Any additional info would be great. Thanks guys!

Edited February 12, 2007 by charles_in_houston

[charles_in_houston]

ya but they arnt going to fit on the stock a-arms he is going to have to by long travel a arms to beable to use them.and he wants to use them on the stock a arms till he can get other ones.

 

Won't reducing the preload allow me to install the shocks but under slight pressure of the cartridge? The springs are what's keeping me from being able to compress the shock and get it the extra 1" or so down to make it fit in the tower mount. It dosent lack much to make it fit. I could probably get a leaver of some kind and pry it in but I don't know what that would do to the a-arms being under load like that. Not to mention the added ride height of the front end.

 

kaotik1, I got your PM. I do have photos of the shocks and I can take any additional ones. If you are interested in trading 16.25" shocks for stock height, send me the photos of your shocks to goff@houston.rr.com If anyone else is interested let me know. I can post the pictures here.

[kaotik1]

i will be sending yu pictures in 2 minutes, to your e-mail.

[charles_in_houston]

Here are some photos of my shocks:

[Mullet Man]

Really, how did you cut them? Did it get hot? Steel is tempered, very specifically. You start heating stuff up a few hundred degrees, and you screw that up. Thats why welds are the weakest part, the welding took the temper out of the steel. You want to go cheap and hack stuff together thats fine with me, go for it.

 

As far as were I am (whoever asked that), Im nowhere near you, and don't really care. I still don't have a-arms yet, cuz Im saving my money. My shocks are valved for +2 arms, and they suck right now unless Im on a track, in which case they feel great. But even then its still not even close to what it will be with a-arms. I've ridden on peoples high dollar setups and I know what it feels like. Combine a-arms from one quad to anothers frame and you have a setup no shock is valved for. No matter what, its not going to be the same.

 

If all of you want to do this fine, but Im telling you, you would be happier saving your money and just waiting.

 

i feel pretty good having spent $350, compared to $1000+ :shrug:

 

so, how much stress does this part of the a-arm see? considering it rides on a delrin bushing, that rides on a steel sleeve, that rides on a steel bolt, all with a nice layer of grease?

welds are weak right? how come factory welds dont break at the a-arm mount on the frame? or on the a-arm in the "T" (bushing mount area) where this is?

 

ANYONE WHO WANTS TO COMPARE SETUPS (YFZ450 A-ARMS/SHOCKS vs. ANY HIGH DOLLAR AFTERMARKET FRONT SUSPENSION) LET ME KNOW. I AM MORE THEN WILLING, WHETHER I AM DISAPPOINTED OR NOT, its all in the name of the Banshee enthusiast!

afterwards, i will buy you a beer or 2 seeing as i would be the one who would more likely be able to afford it :laugh:

 

until then, all the doubters are only talking out of their ass!

doors open, lets do it!

i am within easy driving distance of Badlands (IN), St.Joes (MO) and anywhere in IL/WI/IA/IN/MO/TN/MI...

[blaster668]

Really, how did you cut them? Did it get hot? Steel is tempered, very specifically. You start heating stuff up a few hundred degrees, and you screw that up. Thats why welds are the weakest part, the welding took the temper out of the steel. You want to go cheap and hack stuff together thats fine with me, go for it.

 

As far as were I am (whoever asked that), Im nowhere near you, and don't really care. I still don't have a-arms yet, cuz Im saving my money. My shocks are valved for +2 arms, and they suck right now unless Im on a track, in which case they feel great. But even then its still not even close to what it will be with a-arms. I've ridden on peoples high dollar setups and I know what it feels like. Combine a-arms from one quad to anothers frame and you have a setup no shock is valved for. No matter what, its not going to be the same.

 

If all of you want to do this fine, but Im telling you, you would be happier saving your money and just waiting.

 

 

Doing this mod does not require any welding. And guess what, I will also guarantee that a-arms are not heat treated or tempered. That would actually weaken them by making them brittle. Heat treating is used to make metal harder, something that is not a desired feature on a-arms. Heat treating also requires the metal to be much hotter than you will ever reach using a grinder. Even if metal reaches that temperature the metal returns to its original state as long as it is air cooled. Quenching in water or oil is what changes the properties of the material.

 

Also, the area that is cut for this mod is in a very low stress area.

 

As I stated earlier, I have a degree in mechanical engineering which qualifies me very well to make these statements. Dealing with stress points, material properties, heat treating, etc... is exactly what I studied.

[FireHead]

Doing this mod does not require any welding. And guess what, I will also guarantee that a-arms are not heat treated or tempered. That would actually weaken them by making them brittle. Heat treating is used to make metal harder, something that is not a desired feature on a-arms. Heat treating also requires the metal to be much hotter than you will ever reach using a grinder. Even if metal reaches that temperature the metal returns to its original state as long as it is air cooled. Quenching in water or oil is what changes the properties of the material.

 

Also, the area that is cut for this mod is in a very low stress area.

 

As I stated earlier, I have a degree in mechanical engineering which qualifies me very well to make these statements. Dealing with stress points, material properties, heat treating, etc... is exactly what I studied.

 

Dude.......you are one scarey ME (assuming that you actually are one). ::

 

Heat treating and tempering are two different things. Heat treating is not just used to make metal harder. It depends onthe what metal you are talking about as well as what heat process you are using. HEat build up guring a grinding operation can severely effect the property of the metal. Air quenching does not always get you back to your original state, just as quenching in water, oil, or salt doesn't always change material properties.

 

Past that I won't comment on the YZF450 A-Arm swap because I am not 100% what people are doin to make them fit. I will say that the fitment of the longer Works shocks is a stupid idea and I can't figure out how it would save you any money or provide any benefit. It seems like it would be cheaper just to buy some stock Banshee shocks off eBay for $20 and use them until you get the money for whatever else you have planned. It should be a major red flag when you can't even install the shocks because they are too long. What will wind up happening if you do figure out how to install the Works shocks is that they will allow to much travel, which will eventually break you balll joints, which will happen at either full droop or full compression, either way it will probably net you a wrecked bike.

:thumbsup:

[blaster668]

Dude.......you are one scarey ME (assuming that you actually are one). ::

 

Heat treating and tempering are two different things. Heat treating is not just used to make metal harder. It depends onthe what metal you are talking about as well as what heat process you are using. HEat build up guring a grinding operation can severely effect the property of the metal. Air quenching does not always get you back to your original state, just as quenching in water, oil, or salt doesn't always change material properties.

 

Past that I won't comment on the YZF450 A-Arm swap because I am not 100% what people are doin to make them fit. I will say that the fitment of the longer Works shocks is a stupid idea and I can't figure out how it would save you any money or provide any benefit. It seems like it would be cheaper just to buy some stock Banshee shocks off eBay for $20 and use them until you get the money for whatever else you have planned. It should be a major red flag when you can't even install the shocks because they are too long. What will wind up happening if you do figure out how to install the Works shocks is that they will allow to much travel, which will eventually break you balll joints, which will happen at either full droop or full compression, either way it will probably net you a wrecked bike.

:thumbsup:

 

Yes, I know there is much more to Heat treating and tempering...I was grossly simplifying for this forum. Still I will guarantee that this mod does not change the integrity of the a-arms. And the main reason you do not want to use those shocks on your stock a-arms is that you will damage your balljoints, because they will have large impact forces at there limit of travel.

[racer]

I didnt read this thread, but I highly doubt the stock arms have any form of HT, and if anything it would just be stress relieving, possibly normalizing.

 

What everybody seems to forget about long shocks isnt that the shafts are too long; its the body that is too long. You can have an 8" stroke shock with a 4 foot shaft if you want to, but when you start stuffing extra long shocks into the places and think, "well they will just compress and I will be OK," youre wrong. whats going to happen is the shock will be half way through it cycle, which means that other half is all youre gonna get.

 

Personally I think that 450 shocks on stock arms limit travel. The longer body doesnt permit the up-travel like you need to take full advantage of them. Whether you place the lower pivot further out on the arm or, the upper pivot higher on the frame makes little difference (in this case). Stock length shocks are the way to go.

 

About the lowering brackets, those raise the height of the upper mount, so you say cool. NO, if my bike was seeing any daylight under any tire I wouldnt trust those cheesy stamped alum brackets to hold my air filters, much less my life.

[FireHead]

I didnt read this thread, but I highly doubt the stock arms have any form of HT, and if anything it would just be stress relieving, possibly normalizing.

 

What everybody seems to forget about long shocks isnt that the shafts are too long; its the body that is too long. You can have an 8" stroke shock with a 4 foot shaft if you want to, but when you start stuffing extra long shocks into the places and think, "well they will just compress and I will be OK," youre wrong. whats going to happen is the shock will be half way through it cycle, which means that other half is all youre gonna get.

 

Personally I think that 450 shocks on stock arms limit travel. The longer body doesnt permit the up-travel like you need to take full advantage of them. Whether you place the lower pivot further out on the arm or, the upper pivot higher on the frame makes little difference (in this case). Stock length shocks are the way to go.

 

About the lowering brackets, those raise the height of the upper mount, so you say cool. NO, if my bike was seeing any daylight under any tire I wouldnt trust those cheesy stamped alum brackets to hold my air filters, much less my life.

 

Listen to this man. He speaks the truth. :thumbsup:

[racer]

Listen to this man. He speaks the truth. :thumbsup:

Thanks dude.