MDS2106 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 (edited) I think you might not ever regain all the low end you lost due to the port job.Are you sure your jetting is on? Edited February 6, 2007 by MDS2106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 locogato11283, why do you say people are suggesting things I don't want to hear? Because I said I'm not worried about welding the stock crank? Come on man, gimme a break. yea your crank for one, and then again about how your so called "builder or mechanic" is an idiot.. let me show you why.. I picked up my 2003 Banshee today from getting a mild woods/trail porting job, forged Wiseco's and 19cc domes.you say you got a woods port. every woods port ive ever heard of INCREASES bottom end. ive ridden several woods ported bikes and they all had great bottom end.. so if your builder is so good at being a mechanic then why does your bike lack bottom end power now? after all, a woods port is for bottom end. I then noticed that my bottom end feels a little weaker than what it was w/out the porting and forged pistons, but my mid range and top end feel like an entirely different bike. From mid range to the top end of the powerband, the rpms jump much quicker and pull much much harder, and I haven't even went wide open throttle yet. sounds to me that your bike has more of a dune or drag port to me. thats what happens when you port for high end, but no it couldnt be because your builder is great and builds 4 strokes for a living so he definetely knows how to build a 2 stroke... Today I ordered a timing plate which I will install and see how that helps out. The mechanic said it might help with the suffering bottom end. What do you guys think?how come your all knowing builder doesnt know for sure? he said it "might" help? did he also tell you your crank "might" not seperate? he sounds like he doesnt know anything to me.. if he knows all, why are you asking us? Would going 1 tooth more on the front sprocket help wake her up down low? Please add your comments and suggestions to helping me improve my bottom end performance. I guess I'm used to the absurd amount of bottom end torque my TRX 370R has. some ppl have offered suggestions, namely that your builder doesnt know what hes doing or talking about. but thats not what you wanna hear huh? My mechanic said welding the stock cranks is a good idea if you jump a lot with the bike. The free revving engine while in mid air plus the hit when you touch down is primarily what causes the stock cranks to come apart.say what now? thats the first time ive EVER heard that before. raising compression is what causes cranks to separate. everyone knows this, except for your builder obviously... I've read and heard the bottom end on Banshee's are really a dead issue. did your builder tell you that? i bet he did since he obviously doesnt know how to port for the bottom end. i know several builders who can give you a powerband with awesome bottom end..they dont think its a "dead issue".. Not sweating the bottom end. your not? then whats the point of this post? one of your main concerns was on how to get some bottom end back. im confused now, can you clarify for me why you even posted?? My mechanic happens to be one of the areas top bike mechanics. I'm NOT saying he is a Banshee guru like some people on here CLAIM to be. So stop questioning his ability. whats his name? who here claimed to be a banshee guru? i dont see anyone claiming anything other than the fact your builder doesnt know what hes doing. if hes so great, and he knows so much, then i dont see why you cant make a phone call and solve all your problems. he built your bike, knows your setup. he SHOULD know how to get your bottom end back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb7kuh Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Well said locogato, I had a dune port done around a year ago. The first thing my builder did was true & weld the crank, bored .020 over. I was running FMF Gold Fattys with a +4 swinger and the dam thing had so much bottom end gearing was 13/41 (wheelie machine), I had to go to CPI in frames to keep the nose of the bike out of the air! With the CPI's the bottom end did fall off a bit but if you keep it reved up the low power is awsome! I can dump the clutch off the line and keep the front tires around a foot off the ground thru 4th gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassbanshee479 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 just a heads up, my buddys 06 banshee just melted down because the crank seperated and came out of true. this was a brand new bike with t-5 pipes and v force reeds. thats it. so good luck with that crank, I hope it dont trash your cases!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Just because your mechanic can build a drag bike, that doesn't translate into overall knowledge, period. Besides...I'm no genius, but...that looks like a FOUR STROKE drag bike to me. That doesn't mean a thing when it comes to 2 strokes...night and day difference. I'd get a new builder...and/or a refund. Send it out to someone that knows what they are doing, not just one that wrenches on drag bikes.... A banshee will NEVER be a bottom end monster unless you neuter the fuck out of it, but you surely can get more bottom out of one than you have...as said. As soon as someone told me you only need to weld the crank if you're going to be jumping, I would've politely smiled, thanked them...and ran...not walked out of their shop. :: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mike NY Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Forget it, you guys totally mis interpreted what the point of my post was and you are all incorrect for thinking I was objecting with you. I don't post much here and this is the exact reason why. Some of you guys have some chip on your shoulder... I'll keep my questions to myself next time and just "lurk" the board. I'm done here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboybanshee Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Forget it, you guys totally mis interpreted what the point of my post was and you are all incorrect for thinking I was objecting with you. I don't post much here and this is the exact reason why. Some of you guys have some chip on your shoulder... I'll keep my questions to myself next time and just "lurk" the board. I'm done here. You should lighten up and learn to take constructive criticism. If you hadn't become so defensive the thread wouldn't have turned into what it is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Tell your builder to join the board and lurk too, maybe he'll learn something and give you some proper and correct advice as well. Mike, You're telling us your builder knows his stuff. Based on what you are telling us...as passed onto you by your builder, we are ALL telling you he is wrong. Either he is wrong, or you misinterpreted what he told you and you told us the wrong info. Either way...it's wrong....and we're trying to help you...constructively... If you come asking for advice, and then defend your builder and don't heed ANY of our advice, just how do you think we're going to react? You can ask us, or you can tell us. But you can't ask and then tell us. :: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueraiderfan Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 My builder told me that cranks only come apart when you jumo your bike and stuff. Man that is about the dumbest thing i have ever herd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducman Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Big Mike, dont get too discouraged by the comments on your post, sometimes these guys are just a bit over zelous only because they love banshees so much. It sounds to me like your just breaking it in right? I wouldn't make any solid judgements on how it is running untill A)you have fully broke in this motor and are certain the jetting is dialed. The couple of built motors I have had both felt like crap on the bottom end at first and it was a combination of needing more break in and jetting. Adding some timing will help for sure, hard to quantify how much but it will be noticeable. You might check your squish, if they are off the shelf domes + a thick cylinder base gasket your squish could be too large and that hurts bottom end or custom domes with a narrow squish band and shallow domes made for top end type settups can hurt bottom end too. Like others have said, your port job may be more top endy than you expected, one builders woods port may quite a bit different than anothers. I say whatever, more top end = more fun in my book anyway, just makes the trails more exciting. I have a local builder that is prety knowledgeable, builds some incredible dune bikes and drag motors, has a dyno, but it you try to get him to build something much different from his usual build, with way different components that he has never tried and tested before, and don't spend $10 million dollars for him to tinker and screw with tuneing and playing with the setup for a week, you can end up with a sac of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banchetta Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 If you want more low end, then your in for it.....I made the mistake of having a local builder do my shee up and same thing. I've spent over 1200 bucks in intake mods and trying different pipes to get it back...You can get some back, but not like what you'll want. The Paramid reed cages worked very well for more bottom end w/ no top end loss. I also gained a lot of bottom end w/ larger carbs..5hp on the bottom and 2hp on top. Although I am running a stroker. Dave at dlnoss really hooked me up though..He made me some domes that gave my back some low end and took the dip out of my power curve. Give him a shout. Best things that helped me: Paramid reed cages Heads w/ special domes Larger carbs The taper of the needles also made some nice changes as well. Look, I gave you all my tips the first time and I'll repost them. Some of us may be coming on strong, but what you don't understand is that a lot of us have been down the SAME road as you. We all spent 550-1600 bucks into a motor that we all THOUGHT was the best builder as well. My builder wins the 300' sand drags in my area almost every weekend....He claimed he could give me awesome low end compared to what I had (stock port, ptr mids, 165psi). Got the shee back and lost ALL my low end. When I ask him, he sais ( well I ported it to what the specs in the books say) I was like "what the fuck!!"....He turned and walked away. Now I badmouth the hell out of him, but I'm the one thats out....A lot of us are pissed because YOU may have been taken like us. We feel for you. Don't take it to heart. We're not attacking you, we are attacking your builder and trying to make you aknowledge that "YES" we do know more than him......We have all blown up banshees and learned from experience, we know what mods work, what don't, why and how.....I've got 5200 post on here. Look at everyone else, we are so much into the shee that we live to talk about them, share info, and better the shee over every quad out there. I've owned 4 shees in 15 years and every once in a while, I'll still learn something....How many shees has your builder owned? He drags, well so didn't my builder. Mike, don't take any of this to heart man. Learn from it, thats what we are all telling you. We are still here to help you out. My list is on top. If you need help, give me a yell, pm me, whatever, I'll share my experiences w/ you and what helped for me. Timing will help across the whole curve, not just the bottom, but it'll make your top stronger as well...Jetting will have an effect. Let us know what size jets your running, carbs, temp, sea level, every mod on your bike, I can help you dial in your jetting to a tee.. we may come on hard, but we play even harder!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Hey mike, i dont feel i busted your nuts i just tryed to offer you some sound help, i asked who ported your jugs because ive had 14 shee's and have used i think everyone who's anyone except maybe jeff at fast and i understand he's an awsome builder also but, a good builder would point you in the right direction these guys on the HQ are trying to look out for you, banchetta is right he doesnt have 5200 posts because he's chatting, he's forgotton more about banshee's than i know and i know alot, we are trying to help you so lets start this over and help you get your bike running properly, i think the timing plate is NOT going to solve your problem, lets just say for a second fast, passion, eric gorr, rudy kurtz one of those guys ported your jugs, YOU NEED MORE FUEL AND AIR, youd have to take an 1/8 drill bit to your stock mains to get enough fuel to the combustion chamber and thats just for top end, when you have a motor built and tuned properly you dont sacrafice power anywhere over a stock motor hell youve added in most cases 40 horse power, i wont even say your builder is a knuckle head for the crank comment, but if that was true youd split the crank when you revved the bike in nuetral,when theres no load on the bike, but 80 more psi in the chamber will snap the crank, gearing a 65+ horsepower shee lower to get some bottom is just insane, if you had stock gearing and 80 ponies youd damm near loop it everytime you twisted the throttle, like i said earlyer your top end is cool but its the 7000 rpm leading up to your top end you need to be concerned with, i think locco was dead on with his post's as well, maybe he didnt sugar coat his comments, but they are 100% accurite......i do hope you stick around and learn, if i had a dollar for every dollar someone on this site has saved me over the years with my bikes id have the cash to buy another one...........good luck with your build mike...............jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mike NY Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Guys, tell me where and how you think I became defensive? I valued everyone's advice in this post except those who started ripping on the builder. I didn't ask "Hey, what do you think of my builder". FYI, this was from an email I had sent Jim as Passion Engines about a year ago or so. Hi, My name is Mike. I own a 2003 Banshee with the following mods: Cool head (pump gas domes) V-Force Reeds ProFlow intake / K&N FMF pipes and silencer Barnett clutch I'm insterested in getting a little more out of the bike now that I have gotten used to the power. Without going crazy doing a big cc stroker motor, what mods can I do to make a little more power (like porting or high compression domes). What do you suggest I do? How much will it cost and what kind of power can I expect? Thank you, Mike... -- Jim's intial response: Mike it just depends on what you want to set your budget at. We can get a ton of power for not a tremendous amount of cash. With your mods I can get you to around 70 hp with porting, bore job, piston sets, domes, gaskets ,and o-rings for around $625.00+shipping... a real bargain in the world of HP...would require 100 octane fuel though.....Jim My reply: Thanks for the reply Jim! Running race gas is no problem at all. I have to run 108 octane in my Honda Fourtrax so I can share the gas now with both bikes. Can I run 108 instead of 100? Also, this setup you are referring to, do I need to true and weld the stock cranks? Will that help the stock cranks last? I have read that the stock cranks are not that strong. Mike Jim's Reply: Chances are your existing crank is still in pretty good shape, and yes, true and weld is benficial. Stock Yamaha cranks are a fine crank in general if you use good synthetic oil and t&w on hopped up cylinders. Should probably replace outer bearings when you do this procedure...they wear at 10 times the rate the inner bearings do. 108 is even a better choice on fuel...Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Ok, everybody knows everything; but I have 165 psi compression and a stock bottom end so BS on it comming apart. That comes from over-revving the bike. To fix your problem just turn up the idle on your carbs about 1/4 to 1/2 turn each. Turn it up after the bike has warmed up and lisen to the engine run it'll tell you what it wants. The Idle should get a little lumpy like you have a cam in it then hold on. I had the same problem after I ported my bike. Next I would change my oil to a full synthetic for winter and caster 927 (smells good) for summer if you want performance. What kind of filter are you running ?/ airbox? they all come to play. I wish you lived near me I would square you up. Any one that lives in or near Virginia knows me and the power the bikes I work on yeld. My bike looks all stock but will beat just about every one here. And thats after I spot them out. Performance is tuning and tuning again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mike NY Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Agreed Dante. In my experience with my Honda, and the dozens of 700+ HP motors I've had over the years, rpms kill cranks, not compression, not HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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