A-Arm widening kits

[Trick2stroke]

Keep on trying to convience your self

 

 

 

My sentiments exactly. :laugh:

 

I'm not going to say anything more about the subject. I'm content knowing I spent 100 bucks more then you on leager a arms and have quality parts. :thumbsup:

[FireHead]

My sentiments exactly. :laugh:

 

It's pretty hard not to realize that you bought crap when it sits there and smells all the time. :ohmy:

[CHAINSAW]

You are clearly not telling the truth if you same that you have less bump steer now than you did before you installed the kit. It is absolutely geometrically impossible.

Hey man, I would agree with you if I had never rode the thing either, but Im not b.s.ing you. Bumpsteer is less then stock, and is not a problem. Infact I tried very hard today to find some weak points, or bad things with this kit... I found nothing. When I bought the kit, before it was even here I was allready checking into steering stabilizers and pricing them, so I see where your coming from. So call me a liar, but its true man.. no bumpsteer.

 

And lets all see the point here. These kits are not meant to replace your high dollar total front end kits. These kits, are for guys who dont want to spend thousands, and cant afford to spend thousands on their machine that they ride a handful of times every year. Im not saying that these are going to replace a full on Lonestar LT kit,... but for the money, these are well worth it.

 

So sorry if I misguided you all, and made you think I was trying to tell you that these are better then any total replacement kit out there, but I will say that these are a close 2nd.

 

 

Id also like to add... the geometry of these bikes are not the best anyhow, we all know that. In fact, I still think the machine that had the best geometry and best balance ever, was the Tri Z. No matter how high, how far you jumped those babies, they would come down nice everytime.

Edited March 19, 2007 by CHAINSAW

[FireHead]

Hey man, I would agree with you if I had never rode the thing either, but Im not b.s.ing you. Bumpsteer is less then stock, and is not a problem. Infact I tried very hard today to find some weak points, or bad things with this kit... I found nothing. When I bought the kit, before it was even here I was allready checking into steering stabilizers and pricing them, so I see where your coming from. So call me a liar, but its true man.. no bumpsteer.

 

And lets all see the point here. These kits are not meant to replace your high dollar total front end kits. These kits, are for guys who dont want to spend thousands, and cant afford to spend thousands on their machine that they ride a handful of times every year. Im not saying that these are going to replace a full on Lonestar LT kit,... but for the money, these are well worth it.

 

So sorry if I misguided you all, and made you think I was trying to tell you that these are better then any total replacement kit out there, but I will say that these are a close 2nd.

Id also like to add... the geometry of these bikes are not the best anyhow, we all know that. In fact, I still think the machine that had the best geometry and best balance ever, was the Tri Z. No matter how high, how far you jumped those babies, they would come down nice everytime.

 

I think the point that a few people are trying to get across to you is that for near the same price, you can get a proper a-arm setup.

 

From a suspension geometry point of view, you would be better off with wheel spacers (I don't like them either from an engineering stand point) instead of that kit.

 

I don't think anyone will argue with you that the Banshee doesn't have the best suspension geometry from the factory, but all this kkit you have does is exacerbate the problems. If you wouldn't mind, take some pictures of the kit on your bike. Either I am missing something or you are full of poo about the lack of bump steer. :thumbsup:

[BlasterRiders]

Those things are a lawsuit waiting to happen. They are very clearly under engineered with regard to strength in several areas (I don't care what material they are made out of). Thee kit also will give you terrible suspension geometry in several areas, the worst of which is bump steer. The only people that are less intelligent than the person selling that kit are the people buying that kit. :shoothead:

 

As I am sure it will some up, I am not saying any of this to make myself feel better about my "pro" setup as I don't have one. What I do have is a tiny bit of engineering experience and atleast one functioning brain cell.

i'm with firehead 100% on this one...a arm pivot points are supposed to be as close to center of the "vehicle" as possible, look at the 250r frame thats been used in every form of racing with almost every engine stuffed in it. theres a reason everyone uses that frame...it was the best engineered suspension geometry to date. look where the a arm pivots are. to put that "kit" on something you might ride at any speed over 10mph is stupid...and unsafe at best. not only will bumpsteer be multiplied tenfold, the pressure on the kit itself is enormous when the suspension travels. asr or burgard a arms are the way to go if you want "economical" SAFE wider front end.

 

i personaly dont think he knows what bump steer is and what causes it.

Edited March 19, 2007 by BlasterRiders

[FireHead]

i personaly dont think he knows what bump steer is and what causes it.

 

That could be. I didn't think about that. It seems to me that I have a suspension geometry cartoon around here somewhere, I'll see if I can find it. I think Chainsaw may be a member on threewheeler website that I used to spend some time at. If it's the same guy, he knows a fair amount about threewheelers, especially Tri-Z's.

 

What doesn't make sense to me is how you could possibly not have a ton of toe-in under bump. The inboard steering points don't appear to be modified. Thus, when you move the pivots out, even if you put longer steering arms on, the steering arms are still out of plane with the lower a-arm. I also think this setup may give you a ton of camber gain/loss in roll.

[CHAINSAW]

Here are the before and after pics. And yes,.. this is the same Chainsaw. I agree, all past experience and everyone knows that the closer the lower a arms are at the pivot point, the more clearance you have, better handling, everything all the way around. Every new model year someone gets closer and closer together in production ATVs. Look at the new Kawasaki 450s, there is just an aluminum square tube between the two. However, for some reason with this kit the machine rides and drives 10 times better then it did stock. Now by all past experience.. yes, that would make everything off camber feel awkward and every little bump or rock on the road would pull you in that direction. However, I gave this kit a good 2 hour torture test today, and it surprised me with everything I threw at it. Now I wasnt hitting triples and not running through 4 foot deep whoops, my riding is dune style fast and full throttle. I do a lot of hill climbing and throwing the ass end around at the tops of hills. Thats where I love this kit the most.. I can turn her around on a dime now like a three wheeler.

 

All I ask, is that you guys dont trash something that you have never seen in person, even better rode. I invite any of you that may live around me to come and try her out, you will be just as surprised about how it rides as I am.

 

As for the rods changing angles, they come with treaded extensions for your tie rods. You can see them right up near the steering knuckles. You can tell by the pics, the angles stayed exactly the same. Thats the only difference between the +4.25" kits and the +6" they sell. The holes are there for both, they just send you the tie rod extender according to how wide you wanna go. I went with the smaller, because I still wanted to fit the thing in the back of my truck.

 

And these pics were taken before I could adjust the wheels, but they weren't to far off.

Edited March 19, 2007 by CHAINSAW

[FireHead]

Chainsaw, let me probably be the first person to welcome you to the HQ. Do you still have the Tri-Z that you were going nuts on awhile ago? You should post up some pictures of that thing. It was pretty cool.

 

I will apologize a bit for crawling up you ass on this previously. I still don't think much of the kit, but based on what I have read on the 3 Wheeler World and 3Wheeler.org you have reasonably good idea of what you are talking about.

 

Can you post a picture of the steering rod extenders? I am still trying to figure out how the kit can widen the suspension in that manner and not generate a huge amount of toe in and out during suspension travel. I can sort of see the inboard end of the steering rods in the pictures you posted, but I can't see how the steering has been corrected.

 

I notice that you are running stock brake lines with this kit. Do they get stretched to hell or is there enough length in the stock lines to cover the wider front end?

 

As for the kit making the bike ride smoother, it's a definite possibility I suppose. I don't know exactly what an OEM Banshee shock was setup for, but it doesn't seem to be a stock Banshee with a 95th percentile male rider. :geek:

[CHAINSAW]

Thanks for the welcome.. Ive been here a while, just havent rode much in the last couple of years so I dont post much either. Ive still got my 85 YZ powered dragger. I sold the 425 stroker I had in it (the one all polished out) sold my other 2 Tri Zs as well. I even had one that I crammed a CR500 engine into, now that was a beast!! Ill have to post pics of them up here later, I have all those pics on my other computer.

 

I dont blame you bro for questioning me, not at all. I thought the same thing when I first saw the kits, but I dont buy anything without doing research. I searched out a couple of guys that tried them on other machines and they were happy with the results. I was also scared to hit the first big jump for fear that something would break, but these are made from strong materials. Ive decided if I hit something and break something.... I probably shouldnt of been hitting it in the first place.

 

I am running my stock brake lines, only because my extended ones havent showed up yet. However, the stockers work fine, and I could continue to run them, but I just like the look of braided lines to much to not run some. You cant run them sitting in their little holder thingies, but stockers will work.

 

Here is a better pic where you can kinda see the extenders. They just screw into your tie rod, then onto your ball joint on the other end, very simple and cool solution.

 

[majicmike]

1) You will defend this poorduct until you are blue in the the face because you are the maker. I went to copy thie pic above and geuss what the origanal pic name was.......Diamondj6.jpg

 

2) the pic above is all the info I would ever need not to buy it as the "tie rod end extenders" are horible. As any Yamaha rider can tell you the tie rod end is the weakest part of the suspension then to add leverage to an already weak part not good.

 

I dont question the brakets, they will hold up fine but to get better suspension geometry you move the A-arm mounting pionts in not out. the kit might work for the guy that just runs on the flats of the dunes or down a graded dirt road but I would not install this kit on someones bike that I cared about thats just my .02

[theshee]

Yeah, that tie rod deal looks pretty chicken shit to me. I wouldnt trust that as far as I could throw it. If you want a wider bike, just do it right and spent the money on some +2 or +3 a arms.

[FireHead]

Thanks for the welcome.. Ive been here a while, just havent rode much in the last couple of years so I dont post much either. Ive still got my 85 YZ powered dragger. I sold the 425 stroker I had in it (the one all polished out) sold my other 2 Tri Zs as well. I even had one that I crammed a CR500 engine into, now that was a beast!! Ill have to post pics of them up here later, I have all those pics on my other computer.

 

The Tri-Z with the engine that was all polished out is the one I was thinking of. Although I would be happy to look at pictures of the other Tri-Z's you had as well. :thumbsup:

[FireHead]

1) You will defend this poorduct until you are blue in the the face because you are the maker. I went to copy thie pic above and geuss what the origanal pic name was.......Diamondj6.jpg

 

2) the pic above is all the info I would ever need not to buy it as the "tie rod end extenders" are horible. As any Yamaha rider can tell you the tie rod end is the weakest part of the suspension then to add leverage to an already weak part not good.

 

I dont question the brakets, they will hold up fine but to get better suspension geometry you move the A-arm mounting pionts in not out. the kit might work for the guy that just runs on the flats of the dunes or down a graded dirt road but I would not install this kit on someones bike that I cared about thats just my .02

 

I still don't see how you do not get a huge amount toe in on suspension compression and toe out when the suspension droops. Chainsaw, I know it's alot to ask, especially when I am not a potential buyer of the kit, but could you take a picture of the bike with the suspension in bump and droop positions? I have to still be missing something here, if you are saying that the steering stays the same during suspension cycling.

 

I still question the brackets integrity a bit, especially the lower brackets that carry most of the suspension load. The brackets simply do not transmit the load in a reasonable manner to the frame. Whether they will break during use or not could still be up for debate though. My main concern with the lower bracket is the proximity of the bolt hole to the included radius on top of the bracket. In other words, the load path goes right through an area that does not have any material there. Without spending too much time on this right now it is safe to safe that a reasonable load the would travel though both the lower a-arm brackets would be 2400lbs. without considering the compliance of the shock. The area that I questioned on the lower brackets surely will not last very long with that sort of load on them. Once again though, maybe I am missing something. :ermm:

[CHAINSAW]

1) You will defend this poorduct until you are blue in the the face because you are the maker. I went to copy thie pic above and geuss what the origanal pic name was.......Diamondj6.jpg

Thats because I named the pic that.. lol Lee, the maker of these at DiamondJ asked me to take pics just for him so he can see how I installed it. Like the description says on his current ebay auction, there have been some problems with different years not being able to bolt right up for some reason. Mine went on fairly easy, so he asked for pics. Trust me, Im not the maker of these, just a happy customer. So just incase ya didnt know, you CAN name pictures you take anything you want.. :cool: I can name my pics "majicmike loves a arm extentions" if you would like me to in the future :biggrin:

 

Firehead... Ill see if I can't get a video for ya. This past weekend was my last time to be able to really play for a few months because of work and personal stuff going on, but Ill see what I can do to record some footage for ya in action.

 

The lower brakets arent what really worry me. There are 4 brackets on the bottom A arm, and only 2 up top. The top two, and even better yet, the 2 shock mounts are what I will always keep an eye on. It seems to me, all the force and pressure is on the upper shock mount, but then again you know my history... I can build a 3 wheeler blindfolded, but quads Ive only been playing with for 5 or 6 years now. Now, If I had chose to run at the far bolt hole.. the +6 hole, I see where there would be more chance of something snapping under load. I could be totally off to, but time will tell I guess.

 

The questions about the tie rod extensions... my billet tie rods will break before those will, they look to be pretty heavy duty things.

[majicmike]

I can name my pics "majicmike loves a arm extentions" if you would like me to in the future :biggrin:

 

 

No thanks I would not want my name anywhere near this law suit waiting to happen IMO