jbooker82 Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 Try it for your self. I would say it is a recirculating tank. I dont see how it couldnt be like every body else said. With the radiator clear full, engine completley cold and a little coolant in the tank, mark the level on the tank. Warm the banshee up to the normal opperating temperature. Is the level above the mark on the tank you made with the engine complely cold? Shut it off and let it sit over night did the coolant level go back to your mark you made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 Like I said...in my experience, it doesn't work as a recirculation tank. I know of the flaw in the stock hose routing, trapping coolant under the gas tank, precisely why i relocated mine to the front of the frame. Same thing.... Think of it another way. As coolant gets hot...it expands, right? So...top off the radiator, it'll spit a little bit onto the ground or into the bottle technically, right? And the radiator will still be full. Then...when it cools down, according to the recirculation theory..it'll suck the coolant back into the rad. Well, if it's just going to put it in the bottle, than take it back, leave the overflow bottle off. It'll expand and fill the system once heated and under pressure...then, lower the level once cooled all the way off. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooker82 Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 Then...when it cools down, according to the recirculation theory..it'll suck the coolant back into the rad. Well, if it's just going to put it in the bottle, than take it back, leave the overflow bottle off. It'll expand and fill the system once heated and under pressure...then, lower the level once cooled all the way off. Right? Yea. Then if you happen to get a little low then it will pull a little more back in. Air expands and contracts with temperature change more severly than a liquid. That is why you end up pulling some back in if you get a little low. The only thing that draws in coolant from that tank is the heating and cooling of the coolant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003LimitedBanshee Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 Then...when it cools down, according to the recirculation theory..it'll suck the coolant back into the rad. Well, if it's just going to put it in the bottle, than take it back, leave the overflow bottle off. It'll expand and fill the system once heated and under pressure...then, lower the level once cooled all the way off. Right? But the point of a functioning recirculating tank is to ensure that the effective cooling system (ie. radiator) is full at all times. Any cooling system is most efficient if it is completely full. In addition, you will lose some coolant to evaporation under normal usage, therefore the recirc tank gives you a resevoir to hold extra coolant to replace this normal loss. Most people do not check many things, coolant as just one aspect, anywhere close to often enough, so a properly functioning recirc tank is just another insurance/convenience item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 I rate the coolant overflow bottle on these bikes just below the TORS system as far as usefulness and being practical... I know how it's supposed to work, but...it don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
differentstrokes Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 It doesn't recirculate...call Toomey. They state that it DOES NOT in their pipe instructions and the instructions call for it's elimination when installing T-6's. Anyone that has instructions still can verify this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003LimitedBanshee Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 It doesn't recirculate...call Toomey. They state that it DOES NOT in their pipe instructions and the instructions call for it's elimination when installing T-6's. Anyone that has instructions still can verify this. Heck, anyone who doesn't still have their instructions could just go to the website and download them if they wanted to, but they'd still be reading incorrect information. I love my Toomeys, and think their design is amazing, BUT I will make this statement. In this case, it is a good thing that Toomey designs pipes and not Cooling Systems! Simply count the hoses, if you understand how a recirculating tank cooling system works, you will have your answer. If all you need is a place for coolant to spit, you only need ONE hose. In this system, properly functioning, coolant comes in through the top hose when the coolant expands, and is drawn back into the radiator via the bottom hose when the coolant contracts. People can argue all they want, but the simple fact is that by design this is a Recirculating System. You may have a better chance of convincing me that it doesn't function as shipped from Yamaha, but it is still a Recirc. system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadillacBanshee Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 If you look at where the OVERFLOW line that goes to the tank connects at the radiator you will notice that the radiator cap can pushed up with pressure but if theres a vacuum in the radiator the cap will not move down. The top line in the overflow tank is simply a overflow line for the overflow tank and in case the overflow tank overfills. I worked circles around this myself before i removed my overflow tank. My brothers banshee recently overheated a spit coolant out of the overflow overflow line and when the bike cooled down the radiator was still missing coolant. And there was a pop when the cap was removed, vacuum trapped by the radiator cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003LimitedBanshee Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 If you look at where the OVERFLOW line that goes to the tank connects at the radiator you will notice that the radiator cap can pushed up with pressure but if theres a vacuum in the radiator the cap will not move down. The top line in the overflow tank is simply a overflow line for the overflow tank and in case the overflow tank overfills. I worked circles around this myself before i removed my overflow tank. My brothers banshee recently overheated a spit coolant out of the overflow overflow line and when the bike cooled down the radiator was still missing coolant. And there was a pop when the cap was removed, vacuum trapped by the radiator cap. Has anyone actually looked at their radiator or taken the time to try and understand the basic concepts of a cooling system? I'm sorry to come off so harsh, but I remember this same debate some time ago, and I believe the same ignorant opinion won out. Anyway, if you had actually taken the time to look at the radiator you would realize that in part you sort of answered your own question. While it is true that there is a line that comes off the radiator neck near the cap, you should have noticed the line that comes off the other side of the radiator, directly from the top tank of the radiator. The line you saw and commented on from the radiator cap is the line that will spit on your pipes. And you would be right that there would be no way for the radiator to draw fluid back from the Recirc tank IF this was the line that it used to draw from the recirc tank. Luckily for me, it isn't. The fact that the radiator cap seals and creates a closed system is what creates the draw from the bottom tube of the Recirc tank back into the radiator. The TRUE overflow line from the radiator neck, near the cap, just serves in the case of an overpressurization in the system. Basically if the system gets too warm too fast, or just plain too HOT. Otherwise, as the system heats, coolant expands, it pushes the expanded fluid into the recirc tank from the bung on the right hand side (from seated on bike) of the tank into the top tube in the overflow. As it cools, coolant contracts, it is drawn from the bottom tube in the recirc back into the radiator. Not to sound like a complete ass, but that is how it works, either that or Yamaha just made all that extra work for a whole lot of smoke and mirrors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 I'm sorry to come off so harsh, but I remember this same debate some time ago, and I believe the same ignorant opinion won out. It would only be an opinion if it was never tested, used...etc. On my own personal bike as well as a couple others I've worked on, it will NOT suck coolant back into the tank. I know...I know.... I fully understand the cooling system and how it is supposed to work. However, in my experience, not opinion, it does not work as said or designed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee dave Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 this seems to be a heated subject. I have had my radiator and coolant tank off many times. There is only one line coming off the radiator to the over-flow tank. the other line from the over-flow tank goes along the frame following the trans vent hose up along the steering stem and down the front down tube dumping onto the exhaust. I'm not going to get into the argument of wether or not the tank sucks it back in or not. All that I know is I have over-heated many times and emptied the tank. My radiator never seemed to loose a significant amount of fluid even when the over-flow tank was empty and coolant spilling onto the exhaust. I have found that if you overfill the the over-flow tank you will loose the the extra fluid out the dump tube onto the exhaust which is a waste. that is my 2 cents. and I also want to move my tank to the front of my bike. If Yamaha designed the system like this, not a recuirulating system just a catch can, than it was probably the E.P.A that made them put the tank on in the first place as to not contaminate the enviroment. Again my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgrey Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 The tank works and I would not remove it bottom line. I would, however, remove it if I was racing and/or only haveing the bike run for a SHORT amount of time. Given, I do only ride in the dunes of Glamis and Gordon's Well where tempatures reach over 100 degrees BUT I have proven to myself and you can take it for what its worth. I was at camp (probably sipping on a cold one) when I looked at the coolant bottle from my seat when the bike was cool and it was empty. I said to myself "that is weird" because I changed the oil and cleaned the filter and checked the fluid the night before I left for the desert. So, I go into my camper and grab the 50/50 "mix with any other color coolant" fluid that I happen to have. I always run 50/50 coolant distalled water with water wetter in it and all the coolant is blue. Okay, so, I put the ORANGE coolant that i have into the bottle and I chill for a while eating lunch. I go out on a ride for about 2 hours with some friends. When I get back to camp I look just to make sure that the bottle is not empty and its not BUT the thing is that its ALL blue in the bottle again. Point is that all the orange coolant that I put in the bottle mixed with the blue coolant that was already in the bike, but sinse there was more blue than orange the blue it was mixed with overtook the orange. I would not remove the coolant "overflow" bottle if I was you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooter Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 i guess you can debate the if it works or not thing forever.to each his own now the next question is what do you realy gain by removing it?the bottle cant weigh a pound so its not going to make you faster and if its for the looks you cant realy see it. shit im just gonna leave mine there. it dont bother me and its easy to add coolant if you need too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansh-eman Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 i guess you can debate the if it works or not thing forever.to each his own now the next question is what do you realy gain by removing it?the bottle cant weigh a pound so its not going to make you faster and if its for the looks you cant realy see it. shit im just gonna leave mine there. it dont bother me and its easy to add coolant if you need too well i removed mine becasue it dosent do anything but hold coolant that spills out if i over heat but i have had no problems with it over heating... also i dont want those little dinkly rubber lines melting to my brand new pipes... so i ditched mine and ran the hose down the frame... if my bike over heats so commonly that i need to be worrid about may 4-6oz of coolant to keep my bike from breaking down i have much larger issues to worry about then the coolant bottle being gone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003LimitedBanshee Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 well i removed mine becasue it dosent do anything but hold coolant that spills out if i over heat but i have had no problems with it over heating... also i dont want those little dinkly rubber lines melting to my brand new pipes... so i ditched mine and ran the hose down the frame... if my bike over heats so commonly that i need to be worrid about may 4-6oz of coolant to keep my bike from breaking down i have much larger issues to worry about then the coolant bottle being gone... First, I must stand corrected on one item, the coolant system actually does all of it's recirculating through the bottom tube of the overflow tank. Banshee dave was right in saying that the upper is an overflow for the recirc tank. Now, Bansh-eman, the point is not whether or not you can run with 4-6oz less coolant, the point is that the bike will cool less efficiently if it cannot maintain a completely full system. The fact that the cooling system moves fluid into the recirc tank doesn't mean that it is overheating, that is what would cause you to lose fluid through the hose near the radiator neck/cap, that also dumps near the right side pipe. If you think about all relatively newer (early 80's-up) they all have recirculating cooling systems, and they all recommend you add fluid at the recirc tank, because the radiator itself should never be less than full unless you have let the recirc tank run dry. Furthermore, most only have one hose running to the tank that it both pushes and draws fluid to/from the recirc tank. Dajogejr, I respect your time and experience, and I guess I could reconcile that in my experience and also in theory, it has worked for me. I can't speak as to why it hasn't for you, but if you say it hasn't I have no way to say that is has. I think we can agree that in design this is more than simply an overflow tank; it may not function on some, for some unknown reason, but it should if all was working. I guess I've just had good luck. I never understood/understand why people bad mouth the TORS either, as mine worked fine, on two bikes with no flaws. I just simply removed mine from this bike to make rejetting easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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