silencethevoice Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Just rebuilt the top end on my dad's bike... I removed the TORS and installed a 2 to 1 with a single 33 at the same time. The bike is stock porting with stock reed cages and Toomey pipes.. For some reason it seems to be running rich no matter how lean I seem to jet it.. I started out at at a 50 pilot, and have gone all the way down to a 38 and it still seems too rich. The mixture screw doesn't really seem to have much effect, and the idle speed screw seems like it has to be pretty far in to keep it idling.. Anyone have any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeDan Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Just rebuilt the top end on my dad's bike... I removed the TORS and installed a 2 to 1 with a single 33 at the same time. The bike is stock porting with stock reed cages and Toomey pipes.. For some reason it seems to be running rich no matter how lean I seem to jet it.. I started out at at a 50 pilot, and have gone all the way down to a 38 and it still seems too rich. The mixture screw doesn't really seem to have much effect, and the idle speed screw seems like it has to be pretty far in to keep it idling.. Anyone have any ideas? have you checked the float level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 So does float level effect the rich/lean factor? I didnt know that,Im still learning Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I had the same problem with my shee. I also have the 33pwk 2into1 and couldnt figure out why it was running so rich and cutting out. Plugs were getting oily as hell and no matter what i did with the jetting nothing changed. Ended up being my ign coil was going and wasnt burning up the fuel fast enough when getting into the RPM's. Now I am at a 50 pilot, needle at 2nd clip from top and 185 main. It is still rich up top but I dont have any smaller jets at the moment so I just deal with it for now. Its also around 50 degrees where I'm at. Floats as mentioned can be the culprit as well, with the carb off hold the carb upside down so the floats seat themselves. they should be pretty much parallel across for proper height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencethevoice Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 have you checked the float level? Not yet, no.. But it usually seems like when the float level is set too high, it pretty much spills gas.. I know some guys actually set there floats that way, they run them up until they start to spill.. Then back them off... But I will definitely check it to rule out the possiblity.. I had the same problem with my shee. I also have the 33pwk 2into1 and couldnt figure out why it was running so rich and cutting out. Plugs were getting oily as hell and no matter what i did with the jetting nothing changed. Ended up being my ign coil was going and wasnt burning up the fuel fast enough when getting into the RPM's. Now I am at a 50 pilot, needle at 2nd clip from top and 185 main. It is still rich up top but I dont have any smaller jets at the moment so I just deal with it for now. Its also around 50 degrees where I'm at. Floats as mentioned can be the culprit as well, with the carb off hold the carb upside down so the floats seat themselves. they should be pretty much parallel across for proper height. I've got a spare coil I can test with.. So maybe I'll swap it out to see if it makes a difference.. I haven't had a chance to test ride it yet... It's just so damn rich, I'm sure it's not going to be running up to potential.. The thing smokes me out of my garage everytime I start it.. :laugh: I'll let you guys know once I've had a chance to test some more stuff.. Thanks for the input so far.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I had the same problem with my shee. I also have the 33pwk 2into1 and couldnt figure out why it was running so rich and cutting out. Plugs were getting oily as hell and no matter what i did with the jetting nothing changed. Ended up being my ign coil was going and wasnt burning up the fuel fast enough when getting into the RPM's. Now I am at a 50 pilot, needle at 2nd clip from top and 185 main. It is still rich up top but I dont have any smaller jets at the moment so I just deal with it for now. Its also around 50 degrees where I'm at. Floats as mentioned can be the culprit as well, with the carb off hold the carb upside down so the floats seat themselves. they should be pretty much parallel across for proper height. What other mods you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencethevoice Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 What other mods you have? The bike's pretty much stock, only mods are +4 timing, Toomey pipes (they're some old ass toomeys, like 1st generation or something), and open air box with K&N... I am at about 300ft elevation, and the temp is in the 60s... I just need to take it off, clean the shit out of it and check the float level.. I'll check it out tonight and let you guys know how it goes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Make sure there is no air leak on that 1 into 2 adapter....you can get similar results. How does the bike run from 1/8 throttle to WOT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 i only have a full fmf system and bored .40over, no airbox lid either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencethevoice Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Make sure there is no air leak on that 1 into 2 adapter....you can get similar results. How does the bike run from 1/8 throttle to WOT? I haven't gotten it broken in yet, so I can't really lay into it too much.. But it does seem a little sluggish from 1/8 - 1/2 throttle... You say it could be an air leak... That sort of confuses me, because I always figured an air leak would cause a very lean condition (as I've seen in other posts) ??? Can you please explain further? Thanks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 It does cause a lean condition, but it won't always read right on your plugs. I had a BAD air leak on my cub, but no matter what jet I put in, from 200 (stock) to 380, it didn't make a bit of difference, and the plugs were WET all along the way. However, it started perfect, idled perfect, seemed to free rev ok in Nuetral, but...put it in gear...BLAAAHHH....right on it's face. If you've run more than a 1/2 tank through it...beat on it. You don't want to hold it wide open for long periods of time with a brand new motor, but you certainly can rev it out...just don't hold it pinned. Idle to 1/8 is pilot/air screw. 1/8 or so to 3/4 is needle. Get the pilot sorted, then work on the needle clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 (edited) you fired it up and ran it a little bit? it's time to lay in to that bitch now.... :beer: i had a hard time following the thread at this point, maybe because it's so early. what size carb? which fmf system? what reeds? what air filter? what elevation? any other mods we need to know about? Edited November 23, 2006 by sredish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencethevoice Posted November 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 you fired it up and ran it a little bit? it's time to lay in to that bitch now.... :beer: i had a hard time following the thread at this point, maybe because it's so early. what size carb? which fmf system? what reeds? what air filter? what elevation? any other mods we need to know about? Sorry... the mods are: Trinity CV Intake with single 33 Toomey Pipes (not sure exactly which ones, they are really old) +4 Timing advance Stock Reeds Stock bore/porting K&N Airfilter with stock airbox (lid removed) Elevation is about 300 ft (temp is about 70 degrees) The jetting as it stands is a 38 pilot and a 180 main.. Clip is on the 4th from the top... The needle is a DEK. So far, I have checked the float level, swapped ignition coils, and tested for airleaks using a propane torch.. Cleaned the carb out really good twice now.. The bike just seems to totally run rich.. The best throttle response I have gotten out of it is at about 4 1/2 - 5 turns out, and even then it still is a little boggish on the bottom end.. Pulling the choke out nearly stalls the bike, and my idle speed screw has to be set pretty far in to keep it idling.. After poking around a bit and laying into it, it is running fairly strong in the mid range to top end, it just has a real bad flat spot at around 1/8 to 1/4 throttle.. Do you guys have any other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencethevoice Posted November 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 What do you guys think about switching to another needle so I can get my pilot leaned out? Like maybe an M or N diameter? Is that pretty much unheard of, or should I just live with it being rich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 you should be able to get it jetted with the DEK just fine. how does it start when the motor is COLD, do you have to use the choke or not? likewise, when the motor is WARM, do you have to use the choke or not? 38 pilot sounds a tad lean to me so that's strange. yea, something wierd seems to be going on... but i was probably the first to play with a different needle on the single carb intake. you have to do what you feel is needed. if a leaner M or N diameter is just what it needs, order one up and try it. seems every bike jets out differently and the single carb setup accentuates that. have you tried lowering needle some, like 3rd or 2nd clip? i'm afraid that'd eat into your midrange power some tho, so you may be on the right track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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