ohiobanshee Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 I bought a used shee with rad valves I also have VF-2 that needs new reeds. Would I be better off to change reeds. The bike has fmf fatty pipes,coolhead 18cc domes,stock porting,28mm flatslide carbs,open lid on airbox and 20 over fresh bore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREELIZARD Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 (edited) I like the V Force 2 reeds better then the rad valve. i tried the rad valve and i really didn't care for them, then i put in a set of the V force 2 reed valves and it really made a big difference in the throttle response. i ended up selling the rad valves Edited August 31, 2006 by TREELIZARD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csrmel Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 banshee reeds/intakes are already straight , theres no angle like on a dirtbike. im pretty sure dirtbike type inlets are where rad vbalves really shine, to help the flow make that turn into the case area. on a banshee the air has a straight shot from the filter through the carb and into the reed cage, so a rad valve wouldnt actually help anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREELIZARD Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 If you decide to go with the V Force2 reeds then you are going to have to modify your stock intake where it bolts up to the cylinder. there is a rubber piece that fits inside of the stock reed cage that will need to be cut off when you use the V Force 2 reeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 More R&D goes into the Boyesen unit that the Moto Tassarini units. I have the oversizes RAD valves in my current dune motor. They made 4.5 more horsepower than the VF3's did on the dyno, but none one ever got beat by a dyno. :baseball_mitt: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00tbanshee Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 i currently run the rad valve reeds but the cages have been ported and i love them so if you don't mind doing a little work on them then i would keep them. just my .02. if you would like to see some pics of mine i can send them to you to get a idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawarriorman Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 banshee reeds/intakes are already straight , theres no angle like on a dirtbike. im pretty sure dirtbike type inlets are where rad vbalves really shine, to help the flow make that turn into the case area. on a banshee the air has a straight shot from the filter through the carb and into the reed cage, so a rad valve wouldnt actually help anything. Yep. The rad valves do great on engines where the reed valves are at an angle. I haven't seen a single engine builder yet that recommends rad valves over v-force. Look at a v-force design, and you can't beat it. If all the reeds open up the same angle as a boyeson cage, then the v-force will flow more. The only way for another cage to flow more than v-force, is for the reeds to open further, which will shorten life expectancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Yep. The rad valves do great on engines where the reed valves are at an angle. I haven't seen a single engine builder yet that recommends rad valves over v-force. Look at a v-force design, and you can't beat it. If all the reeds open up the same angle as a boyeson cage, then the v-force will flow more. The only way for another cage to flow more than v-force, is for the reeds to open further, which will shorten life expectancy. I take it that you're the same type of person that swears that your boost bottle adds a ton of low end power. :baseball_innocent: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawarriorman Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 (edited) I take it that you're the same type of person that swears that your boost bottle adds a ton of low end power. :baseball_innocent: No, I just happen to be majoring in mathematics/computer science and minoring in physics. The v-force design is better, plain and simple. You can't make the valve any wider. So the only way is to get the valves to open further. You keep a stock like design (RAD), and you have to open the reeds further to flow more. Bending the reeds will fatigue them quicker. Not to mention it won't have as good of control at high rpm. The v-force can achieve the same flow while only opening half as much. Edited August 31, 2006 by dawarriorman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 (edited) No, I just happen to be majoring in mathematics/computer science and minoring in physics. The v-force design is better, plain and simple. You can't make the valve any wider. So the only way is to get the valves to open further. You keep a stock like design (RAD), and you have to open the reeds further to flow more. Bending the reeds will fatigue them quicker. Not to mention it won't have as good of control at high rpm. The v-force can achieve the same flow while only opening half as much. If you want to stack your proposed degrees against mine, let's go at it. I have a BS in Vehicle Design and an MS in Mecahnical Engineering. I work for one of the world's premier racing organizations as a PMME. You have missed theone of the key points of intake system designe completely. The goal is to stuff the maximum amount of air that you can down in the the engine. This is not necessarly done by trying to make the largest opening possible (you may want to re-think your choice of minoring in physics). In any intake system, laminair flow through the tract is the key, but the air has to be below super-sonic speeds. Past super sonic speed, the air stalls and and begins to decrease flow throgh the system at an exponential rate. Needless to say, if the flow is not laminair, the flow through the system will stall at a much lower speed. As not to write a book on the subject, the priniciple used in the development of such systems is call "reasonant ram tuning". Additionally, I have been to both the Boyesen and Moto Tassarini facilities, Boyesen does development on their products including CFD trials. Moto Tassarini has some spread sheets and a flow bench that is older than I am. Aside from everyting else, ask yourself, who's reed system do you want in your bike? My entire arguement falls apart if you wind up with a 35mm carb or larger. That is the largest venturi system that the XL RAD Valves are designed for. If you're going bigger than that you need to be looking at some cylinder that accept 250cc dirt bike reeds and cages. Thank you, drive through. :baseball_santa: Edited August 31, 2006 by FireHead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00tbanshee Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 damnit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 (edited) damnit Sorry about that, I was having a rough day at work when I posted that. It's the truth though. I tend to have a problem when folks claim to be right by flaunting their degrees, or soon to be had degrees in this case. :baseball_innocent: All that really matters is that you are happy with what you have and your bike runs properly. If your bike doesn't make 100hp or more, the type of reeds you have doesn't matter as long as they are a quality aftermarket set. :baseball_santa: Edited September 1, 2006 by FireHead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00tbanshee Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Sorry about that, I was having a rough day at work when I posted that. It's the truth though. I tend to have a problem when folks claim to be right by flaunting their degrees, or soon to be had degrees in this case. :baseball_innocent: All that really matters is that you are happy with what you have and you bike runs properly. If your bike doesn't make 100hp or more the type of reeds you have doesn't matter as long as they are a quality aftermarket set. :baseball_santa: i agree! :thumb: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawarriorman Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Sorry about that, I was having a rough day at work when I posted that. It's the truth though. I tend to have a problem when folks claim to be right by flaunting their degrees, or soon to be had degrees in this case. :baseball_innocent: All that really matters is that you are happy with what you have and your bike runs properly. If your bike doesn't make 100hp or more, the type of reeds you have doesn't matter as long as they are a quality aftermarket set. :baseball_santa: Ok then, at least you know what you're talking about. I tend to take it personal when people call me stupid, and then have nothing to back it up with. But you still haven't showed me how the RAD valve is better. A flow bench is a great tool, but it can't simulate the air flow in a 2 stroke engine. If thats all moto tassinari has, then that does make them seem a little backwoods, but you don't always need fancy equipment. All you did is explain what happens to supersonic air through the intake. (By the way, you ever read mototuneusa guy's reduction porting, how he blew off the guy that told him he was full of it?). I still have never seen someone who ports these engines recomend the RAD valves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Ok then, at least you know what you're talking about. I tend to take it personal when people call me stupid, and then have nothing to back it up with. But you still haven't showed me how the RAD valve is better. A flow bench is a great tool, but it can't simulate the air flow in a 2 stroke engine. If thats all moto tassinari has, then that does make them seem a little backwoods, but you don't always need fancy equipment. All you did is explain what happens to supersonic air through the intake. (By the way, you ever read mototuneusa guy's reduction porting, how he blew off the guy that told him he was full of it?). I still have never seen someone who ports these engines recomend the RAD valves. Moto Tassinari is a company that is full of the Italian and German equivalent of Arkansa hillbillys. From my experience, CFD systems are the best experimental tool for evaluating two stroke intake system designs. I have not seen mototuneusa's reduction porting. Post up a link. One thing that I do know, is that no one in the industry know's everything about anything. I am not sure RAD valves are not reccomended like the V Forces are. For the last 5 years I have alwasy done my own porting on a CNC mill. I don't know anyone outside of the top tier manufacturers that do porting in this fashion, therefore I never pay much attention to what other porters reccomend. :baseball_w00t: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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