spark pluggs $$ breaking the bank, WHAT NEXT?

[DemonShee]

Ok for those that dont know, I have a 4mm long rod stroker, dune/play ported, cool head w/cut domes, +5 timing, FMF fatty golds, and 35mm PWK airstrykers.

 

I am at aprox 7000 ft.

 

I started with 170 mains and 42 pilots. Fouled the plugs in 20 minutes. then as follows (all with 42 pilots, all I had with me):

 

Switched to 162 mains, fouled pluggs

went to 155 mains, fouled pluggs

moved needle clip up (needle down) one position and adjusted air/fuel screw to 1.5 turns out. 150 mains, fouled pluggs but only on low to mid RPMS, Top end was lean.

Went back to 160's, ran longer but still fouled pluggs.

Moved to 155 mains and put clip in top position, Ran most of the day but still fouled pluggs

 

I know my low to mid circuts are way to rich still. What pilot size would you try next? Air/fuel screws should be set at???? I am running pump 91 with Klotz R50 mixed at 40:1.

 

The other part that is driving me crazy is my left cylinder always fouls the pluggs first. What could cause this?

 

Been really thinking about going to the dial-a-jet setup on the carbs, What is your guys' experiences with these?

 

Note:

 

Wanted to add, THIS THING RIPS!!! I know there is more power on tap once it is dialed in and I cant wait to see it! I am amazed at the torque this motor makes and when it hits the high end, it flat gets it on. I was at St. Anthony's this weekend and it ran well against some very serious machines. One guy even argued with me saying he just knew it was on alcohol. NOPE!! She is a sleeper, and I love it!!

[BigRed350x]

I have PWK carbs and my jetting is as follows, same riding area as you so...

 

Mains: down to 150 now

Pilot: 38

Needle: CGL on top clip

1.5 turns out

 

Pretty much right on for me. Next time you come over to KP let me know and I can meet up with ou and we can get it all jetted for you. You are on the right track though. Try some different needles if they make them for that carb. The pilot circuit actually affects the entire spread, just not as much up on top. Making the pilot a little more lean might help you out up on top. I like to run my low/mid a little lean anyway, makes the burn a tad-bit hotter so your top end is already hot once you get there, if that makes sense. Gives you really good throttle response and if you set it up right it won't hurt you.

 

I can help you out next time you are over at KP and we will get it up and running.

 

What do you think of the banshee compared to your old monster DS?

[jbooker82]

Here is my mods and jetting.

350 setup with mx porting

V Force 2 Reeds with Keihin PJ34mm Carbs Pro Flow with K&N no air box lid

Cool head with 19cc domes

Timing set at +4 deg

FMF SST Pipes with Turbine Core 2 Silencers

 

Current Jetting at 2100 ft.

Main Jets 155

Needle is CEK on the middle or 3rd clip

Pilot Jet is 58 I will probably end up going down one more size

 

My banshee would not pull worth a crap down low. It ran really rough in the bottome end. 1/8 to 1/4 or a little more throttle. I was at a 62 pilot with CEG needle. I droped to a 58 and it helped a bunch. The i switched needles to the CEK. The CEK as a larger diameter to cut down the amount of fuel at the 1/4 throttle range. That needle really helped out a lot.

 

Here is a good web page that tells about all of the different needle changes and what each change does. The first letter is the taper. The middle letter is the length of the needle. The last letter is the diameter.

Duncan Racing Kein Jetting LINK

 

You can get different needles from Sudco.

Sudco's Needle Page LINK

[odaen]

Note:

 

Wanted to add, THIS THING RIPS!!! I know there is more power on tap once it is dialed in and I cant wait to see it! I am amazed at the torque this motor makes and when it hits the high end, it flat gets it on. I was at St. Anthony's this weekend and it ran well against some very serious machines. One guy even argued with me saying he just knew it was on alcohol. NOPE!! She is a sleeper, and I love it!!

 

While it definitely sucks to hear about your jetting woes, this last paragraph is refreshing to hear. It's coming up on a year since you bought those cylinders from me, and while I know how they ran on my bike, I've been anxious to get a ride report from you. I surprised a helluva lot of guys with those cylinders too.

 

I wish I could help you out with your jetting, but really have no clue where to start because of your altitude. I'm ready to see some choke cherry vids next.

[DemonShee]

While it definitely sucks to hear about your jetting woes, this last paragraph is refreshing to hear. It's coming up on a year since you bought those cylinders from me, and while I know how they ran on my bike, I've been anxious to get a ride report from you. I surprised a helluva lot of guys with those cylinders too.

 

I wish I could help you out with your jetting, but really have no clue where to start because of your altitude. I'm ready to see some choke cherry vids next.

 

 

I have to give ya props man, you said they were awesome and you were right. I been anxious to get ya a report but with the jetting problems I really hadnt been able to get a good hard weekend of riding in till this weekend. I could NOT be more happy with how this thing runs errrr well if it was jetted right anyways.

 

I have been trying to decide rather to put on a lightened flywheel or not, advance the timing up to 7 deg as Packard racing had suggested, get a set of V-force reeds, and maybe step up to the high comp domes as right now I have in the mid domes you sent me. The only thing is I just dont know if I really want to have to run race gas, maybe a 50/50 mix would be ok. Then though, I would have to start this whole jetting mess again and I really dont know if I want to mess with it. I am ready to ride, not wrench. It's a sickness I tell ya.

 

 

 

 

Big Red,

 

I would deffinatly appreciate some help with this thing. 2 boxes of pluggs, including some iridiums is not helping me save money for the next set of mods LOL. There a day this week when you know you could head out there? I am able to go any day so if you want to ride, you tell me what day and I will be there. If possible though, I would prefer not to ride on Sunday, if thats the only day then that's not a biggy. I could take my Dads 2 place if ya want and pick you up in RS so we both dont have to drive out there. I am going to order some pilots and maybe some different needles and have them over nighted to me. Let me know, I will PM ya my phone number if ya want to make plans.

 

 

 

 

Jbooker, Thanks for the links, those might come in handy!!!

[DemonShee]

 

What do you think of the banshee compared to your old monster DS?

 

 

Forgot to answere this.

 

This weekend I got on a buddies rather built DS and honestly, I dont want another one. It is the most comfortable quad on the market period but it is heavy. After having the banshee and seeing this kind of power and how NON-laborous it is to ride I love it. You ride a DS all day and you are exausted, I ride my Shee all day and am ready for more. Mine sits low and wide so it is as stable as anything I have ever ridden and I like a very stable feeling quad. With my fat ass on it, it almost looks like a TT racing set-up LOL. I am having a hard time deciding on redoing the rear shock for my weight and the +4 swinger. If I have it done it will change my ride height and I dont think I want it changed. I dont think however that the rear shock will hold up to this kind of abuse. I know your Shee is set up alot better suspension wise so i am hoping to give it a whirl to feel the difference so I know which way i want to go. Nothing compares to a DS suspension in the rough stuff. 15" of travel is alot to compete with.

 

Power wise, I think my shee could possibbly take my DS when I ran the DS with a 30 shot of NOS. I think thats the weight difference and the high revs of the shee. I miss the low end grunt/hold back of the DS though. Going down hills is a whole nother ball game with the shee that I am not used to.

 

I really didnt know if I was going to like the Shee, but I am quickly becoming a real fan. I dont see it going anywhere. If I can get to where I am making some real money another Bomb will join my fleet. I think I want that new Can-AM Renegade 800 for some good mountain trail riding. A new toy hauler and a sled will come first though.

 

the BANSHEE, The rest

[BigRed350x]

I have to give ya props man, you said they were awesome and you were right. I been anxious to get ya a report but with the jetting problems I really hadnt been able to get a good hard weekend of riding in till this weekend. I could NOT be more happy with how this thing runs errrr well if it was jetted right anyways.

 

I have been trying to decide rather to put on a lightened flywheel or not, advance the timing up to 7 deg as Packard racing had suggested, get a set of V-force reeds, and maybe step up to the high comp domes as right now I have in the mid domes you sent me. The only thing is I just dont know if I really want to have to run race gas, maybe a 50/50 mix would be ok. Then though, I would have to start this whole jetting mess again and I really dont know if I want to mess with it. I am ready to ride, not wrench. It's a sickness I tell ya.

Big Red,

 

I would deffinatly appreciate some help with this thing. 2 boxes of pluggs, including some iridiums is not helping me save money for the next set of mods LOL. There a day this week when you know you could head out there? I am able to go any day so if you want to ride, you tell me what day and I will be there. If possible though, I would prefer not to ride on Sunday, if thats the only day then that's not a biggy. I could take my Dads 2 place if ya want and pick you up in RS so we both dont have to drive out there. I am going to order some pilots and maybe some different needles and have them over nighted to me. Let me know, I will PM ya my phone number if ya want to make plans.

Jbooker, Thanks for the links, those might come in handy!!!

 

 

PM me your number and we can go any time this week. I have a whole lot of nothing going on. Actually thinking about going out there tomarrow! (wednesday) I have a LOT of different jets, and some CEL needles if you want to try those...

 

- Jared

[BigRed350x]

We are meeting up today to try and get his new 4mil jetted right for him. We will let you all know how it goes and get soem video of it running!

 

- Jared

[DemonShee]

Wanted to give a HUGE thank you to Big Red. We worked on the bike yesterday and got it pretty close. I think the fine tuning now will have to be done with some different needles. Jared, you happen to remember what needles I had in those carbs? my mind has gone blank. The 2 quads ran pretty kneck and kneck. It was interesting to see and feel the difference between the two bikes and how they make thier power.

 

We did run into some more problems though. Right at the end of the day I lost spark, errr well it had intermitent spark, but for the most part the quad is dead. I need to get it unloaded and do some tests and see if I can narrow it down. Suspicion is, it is the stator.

 

Again thank you Jared! Really had a good time riding and cant wait to get back out there again and NOT have to wrench on the damn thing for 3/4 of a day.

[BigRed350x]

Wanted to give a HUGE thank you to Big Red. We worked on the bike yesterday and got it pretty close. I think the fine tuning now will have to be done with some different needles. Jared, you happen to remember what needles I had in those carbs? my mind has gone blank. The 2 quads ran pretty kneck and kneck. It was interesting to see and feel the difference between the two bikes and how they make thier power.

 

We did run into some more problems though. Right at the end of the day I lost spark, errr well it had intermitent spark, but for the most part the quad is dead. I need to get it unloaded and do some tests and see if I can narrow it down. Suspicion is, it is the stator.

 

Again thank you Jared! Really had a good time riding and cant wait to get back out there again and NOT have to wrench on the damn thing for 3/4 of a day.

 

You have CEL needles on the top clip right now. Try out a set of CGL next and see how you like them. That's what I run.

 

Yeah the whole spark thing sucked, right at prime ride time. We had an awesome cruise around the dunes before that though. I changed my gearing around some so we will have to run around again once you get yours all hooked up and running sweet again. I think you will be happy with the CGL needles.

 

There's some pics and video from the day we are talking about in the images section...

 

I'm going to steal your carbs. LOL

Edited July 7, 2006 by BigRed350x

[bad99banshee]

Guys,

 

I'm not an expert by any means, but as an outside observer to all the things you are talking about... here's what is striking me ....

 

Maybe this isn't a jetting problem at all.

 

When I did my rebuild and went to my single PWK 35, I was fouling plugs like crazy and I tortured a lot of people here, and at Trinity (since they did the port job and it was their intake) and we were all perplexed.

 

Why this is interesting to this situation is... every now and then, I would just lose spark... completely... wouldn't start.... if it would start, it would die during the test ride... but I wasn't sure what was going on.

 

I was so fixated on my "jetting" problem that the spark issue was going to be the next thing I looked at after the jetting was fixed. I was leaned WAY out and finally realized... this is fucked... no way is this jetting setup going to be right.

 

It turns out to be a wire that was almost cut through coming from the the stator to the CDI. Somewhere during the teardown or rebuild I must have pinched this wire and almost cut it completely through.

 

The problem was, it just wasn't getting enough spark energy from the stator to the CDI to produce enough spark at the spark plug to explode "all" that fuel... so it was getting better as I leaned it out.

 

Once I found and fixed the wire and had good spark the thing was so lean I would have burned it up.

 

I went back to my baseline settings and started again and right now I'm at this setup:

 

PWK 35

 

Pilot: 48

Needle: DEK

Main: 180

 

I'm much lower altitude than you so my jetting specs will be a bit richer... but you get the idea.

 

I think once you get your spark issue figured out.. your jetting will be way different than what you have right now that may be "close".

 

Just my personal opinion, I may be completely wrong.

[blueshee03]

demon and jbooker i'm pretty sure both of you can go down a little more on your pilots.i'm at 3000ft with 35 airstrykers and found that the dek or del needles work the best for me.i run 145-148 mains and usually no bigger than 45 pilots and airscrews out 1-2 turns.the higher you go the thinner the air so the smaller the jets need to be.jetting at higher altitudes can be a pain because the air density and humidity and such changes a lot more from day to day and even from morning to evening in my oppinion.

[BigRed350x]

His jetting was off, we changed it and rode around for an entire day without fouling a plug. That is something to look at though. It got good spark the whole day, then went to hell right there at the end. He is going to pick up a new stator and try that out. We will let you know how it goes.