rjvoight Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Deuteronomy 17:12 ok, grab your Bible. Go to Deuteronomy 17:8. Paraphrased if you read from there to the end including the verse you quote it says when a crime takes place and you can not take care of it amongst yourselves, go to the "Levitical priest or judge who is in office in those days". Present your case to the judge. vs 10 "And you shall do according to the terms of the verdict which they declare in the case". It explains further that the judgement made by the judge should be according to the "terms of the law". vs. 12 is saying that once the judge makes his decision it is no longer up to you what should be done. If you go against the judge and take matters into your own hands, you will be put to death. Vs 13 explains this is done so people will not do that. I will get to the rest of your questions, including Noah, but I need to spend some time with the family. HD, I am not trying to bash on you, and I came at you kind of harsh. Take some time and do what I just did, take the book and read a little before and after and you will find it makes sense. Most bibles tell you at the beginning of each chapter what the book is about, for example is it a book about the laws of Isreal etc. That can be helpful to put things into context. Anyway, I will reply later.... RJV Or this one....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helldriver Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) here is some shit I copied in its ENTIRITY so explain this,, or do i now have to copy the entire book? Kill the Family of Sinners And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it." [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible) Kill Followers of Other Religions While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT) Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) Destruction of Ai Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night. Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open. Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua. When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day Edited July 1, 2006 by helldriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjvoight Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 here is some shit I copied in its ENTIRITY so explain this,, or do i now have to copy the entire book? Kill the Family of Sinners And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it." [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible) First, you don't need to copy the entire book, but it might help if you read the book. Now for the first passage you pasted: The sin was disobeying a direct order from God. If you go to Joshua chapter 6:17-19: And the city shall be under the ban, it and all that is in it belongs to the Lord; only Rahab the harlot and all who are with her in the house shall live, because she hid the messengers whom we sent, But as for you, only keep yourselves from the things under the ban lest you covet them and take some of the things under the ban, so you would make the camp of Israel accursed and bring trouble on it. But all the silver and gold and articles of bronze and iron are holy to the Lord, they shall go into the treasury of the Lord. So there it is what the people were supposed to do. Now go to Joshua 7:1-13 But the sons of Israel acted unfaithfully in regard to the things under the ban, fro Achan, the son of Carmi, the son of Zabdi, the son of Zerah, from the tribe of Judah took some of the things under the ban, therefore the anger of the Lord burned against the sons of Israel. So history tells us that because of this, the city of Ai which should have been taken easily with 3000 soldiers whips Isreal into submission. Joshua asks God why and he is told what happened (Achan disobeyed and now Israel will not be able to succeed because of the undealt with sin. Before Christ the only way to deal with sin was death.) You pick up the story where Achan and his family are killed. After his death, Israel takes the city of Ai. A just and holy God must be consistant. He can not allow some sin one time and not allow it the next time. Christ's death changed that for all of us. The rest of your posted questions are going to be the same thing. If you go back and read the books you quote from, you will answer your own questions. I also suggest you read the New Testament as well. It will help you understand the Old Testament.... RJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helldriver Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) g :yelrotflmao: youre so full of shit it CLEARLY states in there that God allows and commands, people to be killed,,,, now for a god that is supoosed to be full of love,, he has alot of underlying issues so youir saying its ok to kill. as long as it for good purposes? its all built on feaR,, AND GOD NEEDS FEAR TO KEep people into beliving him, or they will die by him if they disobey him,,well im here to tell you i have disobeyed him, and i dont belive in him, and im here still standing tall, and will always be, and i defy him on a daily basis,,,, and you say i only copied one part of it? come on man,, is copying the enitire chapter gonna change anything? sorry man, youre justs seeing what you wanna see Edited July 1, 2006 by helldriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjvoight Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) g :yelrotflmao: youre so full of shit it CLEARLY states in there that God allows and commands, people to be killed,,,, now for a god that is supoosed to be full of love,, he has alot of underlying issues so youir saying its ok to kill. as long as it for good purposes? its all built on feaR,, AND GOD NEEDS FEAR TO KEep people into beliving him, or they will die by him if they disobey him,,well im here to tell you i have disobeyed him, and i dont belive in him, and im here still standing tall, and will always be, and i defy him on a daily basis,,,, and you say i only copied one part of it? come on man,, is copying the enitire chapter gonna change anything? sorry man, youre justs seeing what you wanna see What are you talking about? Did I say it did not say God said to kill Achan? No I told you why Achan was killed and I used the Bible to do it. Then I tried to explain why a God of Love would allow a person who sinned directly against him to die. And then I even mentioned that God provided Christ so that he could die for us and our sins. No, copying the entire chapter wont change anything, but if you read it with any sort of understanding of the english language you might understand what was going on. Im not saying it would change your position but you would not be posting half thoughts. It's like I said in post #804. It does not matter what I say to you or how much I try to explain. You will not listen. It would take 500 pages to explain the entire Old Testament to you and what was going on and why Israel was out conquering lands. And until you yeild to God and want to understand, it will be a pointless battle going in circles. You are AFRAID to understand. RJV Edited July 1, 2006 by rjvoight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkc Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 I"ll take a crack at #'s 25 First I've got to set the stage in simple terms. If someone observed your life for a day & then wrote about your WHOLE life and not only did they interpret your inner thoughts but then explained every thing you did wrong.It would be obnoxious at best. Thats what you and I do when we call the bible short sighted.Who are you sitting there as your hair turns grey soon to be dead. Who am I not even a blip on the radar.God makes the rules he holds the world together. We cannot even lift a finger to type unless he gives permission. Theirs alittle boy being questioned in the back seat of his daddies car "does your daddy love you?" He say" no" "why not?"" because he's taking me to the dentist". then his dad is asked "do you love your son?"he says "yes" "why?"" because I'm taking him to the dentist". Perspective is everything! Who's right? His dad is, he see's the big picture!Like rjv says the first deal is made in order to show men that he is different (HOLY; means "other than") he is perfect and the 1st deal shows his standard to be with him(perfection).I' m glad he's different than me I screw things up. The second deal is better, not only do I get to be perfect but I get to go home to be with my father.There's two lifes a short one and a long one. God loves the mobabites by far more than you & I it costs him a lot more to love them/us we just say were sticking up for them at no real cost to us.Out of all the amazing things God does he showed us his awesome fist and bicep by dieing in humilation for you & me . Sorry to get off track on the second deal. Remember the jews were on the brink of crossing in to the (predicted) promised land where the better second deal would be formed. he knew the moabites better and cared for them more than you & I He knows whats best for us. I don't care how adult we think we are were still little in the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helldriver Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) i enjoy the bible very much, and have read it, studdied it, and analyzed it the difference is i see it for what is it,, a fictional story,,, you see it as the absoulte truth, and that is the laughable part Edited July 1, 2006 by helldriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjvoight Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 i enjoy the bible very much, and have read it, studdied it, and analyzed it the difference is i see it for what is it,, a fictional story,,, you see it as the absoulte truth, and that is the laughable part If by reading, study, and analyze you mean pick out some passages here and there then I believe you. If by reading, study and analyze you mean you have read the entire bible front to back, studied it, analyzed it and understand it then the I don't believe you. RJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helldriver Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) like i have said before,,, its all scare tatics, and i dont scare easily,, apparently you do you also have to look at the time period in which it was written, back then if someone said a volcano is going to explode and burn you entire city down if you dont do what this person says, you will die,, you will do it the bible works on this same principal Edited July 1, 2006 by helldriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkc Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Thats the best you can do? I used to listen to this radio talk show host who would get into debates with people on the air. many times he would say thats in your opinion. I called his producer and told him I never wanted to here that phrase again. IT'S A TALK SHOW that phrase ends the TALK! Matthew 7:6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 You have to be grounded in the Word to properly understand scripture. The bible is written so that those who are not grounded in the Word will take a wrong turn before you even get started. Becoming grounded in the Word is accepting Jesus in spirit and in truth. The Bible expresses this throughout it's entirety in many different symbolic scenarios. Sort of like if I wanted to fully convey a number to someone I don't know. If I write 10, you get what I mean but someone from a different culture or time period would have no frame of reference to relate this to. Therefore I will also write llllllllll or I might even "write" this :baseball_bat: .....that's 10 fingers and also the last thing I will try to beat into your head. This thread has been great and I'm thankful to all of it's contributors. Nice meeting you rkc. :beer: I'll see you all soon in another thread....I'm shaking the dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helldriver Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) and RJ, I have heaRD YOU TALK about free will in the bible BUT CLEARLY YOU know nothing of what you speak as it is written that I was given free will with which to choose if I will go to hell or not. How can you possibly deem something free when you must fear consequences? That completely conflicts with the definition of free. If I were to hold a gun to your head and say Edited July 1, 2006 by helldriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkc Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 ditto B04 & others I guess I got here a little late. I understand a little of your frustration now. Even adversaries can have a relationship, which is what makes life great. To bad it didn't happen here HD is to religious if you know what I mean! I got another idea for a good thread maybe I'll wait a little while because I'm new & need to build more trust in me! MATTHEW 7:6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 god doesnt say if you dont follow me you'll burn in hell, he says if when i load the bus if your not on it im leaving without you........ it has been PROVEN that the earth did not form that way utter fucking bullshit prove it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 then why was it not wrote that way? helldriver i can respect anyone's opinion, but that sentence you clearly typed is why i think your a fucking moron, you cant even speak properly, i think the word your looking for is "written" and your almost a 40 year old man, come on make my day what do you do for a living, work for Nasa? Or are you a doctor?.......you my friend are clearly so un fucking educated, the reason you cant understand the bible is your reading comprehension skills, as is your grammar are severely lacking, you've clarified it post after post after post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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