helldriver Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 well the bible DOES say there are in fact ubicorns,, as god created them YET and normal person knopws there are only fictional,,, i mean really unicorns :yelrotflmao: yet the bible is supoosed to be all true :yankyank: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustbag Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 don't mind me just upping my post count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 don't mind me just upping my post count. :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjvoight Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 and i STILL havent got the answer to the how can you defend a book thats says " kill everyone that dosent follow god"? and s till say its good? the bible has been twisted into something that it was not meant to be,, HD, you have been given the answer. Several times. Just because you won't accept the answer does not mean it has not been provided. If someone tells you 2+2=4 you can accept it or reject it. Regardless of what you do, the fact remains the answer is 4. RJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I gotta tell yas..... I gotta agree with just about every little thing Helldriver has said so far. Sorry, but I just don't get the whole god worshipping thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjvoight Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I gotta tell yas..... I gotta agree with just about every little thing Helldriver has said so far. Sorry, but I just don't get the whole god worshipping thing Wow. Just about every little thing? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helldriver Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) RJK you have not given a DIRECT answer,, just a bunch of mumbo jumbo, and you type in riddles.., now youre starting to sound like 04LE,,, i thought you at least had some clues about what you were talking about,, guess I was wrong If the bible was too be taking seroiusly WITHOUT any question,, then why was it not wrote that way? Edited July 1, 2006 by helldriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Helldriver, the day that someone DIRECTLY shows you God you can be assured that it is wise to doubt. You can be equally assured that if you seek God you will find God. A humble nature towards God is the first requirement. Without that you will never know God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjvoight Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 RJK you have not given a DIRECT answer,, just a bunch of mumbo jumbo, and you type in riddles.., now youre starting to sound like 04LE,,, i thought you at least had some clues about what you were talking about,, guess I was wrong If the bible was too be taking seroiusly WITHOUT any question,, then why was it not wrote that way? I'm not sure what riddles you are talking about. Way back when I took each of your questions and answered them. At that time you were ok with the answers, and now you are not. I get fired up every now and then but really I don't want to just argue the same points over and over. I have made it very clear where I stand. Your questions are legit good questions. If that was all someone knew about the Bible, were those smattering of versus, it would be very confusing. You may have only known those versus when this started, but now you know what was going on, who God was talking too, why they were being talked to that way and why those things were said. And please re-read your necrophillia thing, you are totally off base on that. And even more, you now know that the "law" was put in place to teach us of our need for a saviour. My opinion is this. You simply can not accept the answers because it flat out rocks your faith. It completely takes away all of your reasons for not believing. If you accept anything that any of us say that is pro-bible or pro-God it weakens your stance, your foundation and that scares you to death. The thought that you might have been wrong all this time.....that others may have been right.......it strikes terror in you. At this point, you have no choice but to keep falling back on what you thought you knew....the same arguments even though you have to know they are off base, out of context, or just flat out wrong. You have to believe they are true and correct because that is your only option. What is sad, is that you continue to deny the slow tugging in the back of your mind, the slight what if's that surface, the occasional sinking feeling in your stomach. Your eyes are being opened and you can't stop it. You can ignore but the fact is that it is happening. Not because of me or 04 or Duece or any of the others that have tried to explain things to you. You really won't like this but the reason you are here reading this right now is because God planned it for you. Yes, you are in this conversation, asking these questions, arguing with yourself and others, making your points standing on your beliefs for one reason and one reason only. God put you here at this time, for this very reason. I don't know why or for what purpose but I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it is not because you just happened here by chance. It is all part of God's plan for your life. That's right, God has a plan for your life and this is just one part of it. The fact is, you can't escape God. You can ignore him 'cause that is your free will. But he is always there reaching to you. Waiting for you to acknowledge what you already know. That you were created for so much more. That you were created for excellence. That you were created for a purpose. That there is so much more to this life than going to work, playing for a little while and dieing. He will always be there. After this thread is dead, gone and forgotten by all of us.....God will still be waiting for you to come home. And when you do, regardless of all the things you have said and done, the Angels will rejoice and he will welcome you home. RJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helldriver Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) rj, you really need help,, probably why you are such a jesus freak,, you can not deal with things on your own, you are not strong willed,,, and you do not acccept anything but the bible cause it tears down what you think is right,, youre scared to look any further,, cause you may find that your book is not so right after all i have done my research, asked questions, and i see the condradictions and i just can not belive something like that you say i take it out of context? you bible quoters do the same sorry i dont need a book to save me its only yourself that can help you, nothing else ususally if you see someone who is so wraped n this religious bullshit,, there is usually trouble that follows,,, i mean look at all the people in prison, 90 percent of them are religious,, yet they are in prison for horiedous crimes , a murderer will have jesus pics all over his cell,, a rapist will be working in the chapel,, a drug pusher will have jesus tattooos all over him makes you wonder what kind of people belive in god, and what it makes them do and anybody that has a house full of religoius stuff, is usuaslly deepely troubled and disturbed Edited July 1, 2006 by helldriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjvoight Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) rj, you really need help,, probably why you are such a jesus freak,, you can not deal with things on your own, you are not strong willed,,, and you do not acccept anything but the bible cause it tears down what you think is right,, youre scared to look any further,, cause you may find that your book is not so right after all i have done my research, asked questions, and i see the condradictions and i just can not belive something like that you say i take it out of context? you bible quoters do the same sorry i dont need a book to save me its only yourself that can help you, nothing else ususally if you see someone who is so wraped n this religious bullshit,, there is usually trouble that follows,,, i mean look at all the people in prison, 90 percent of them are religious,, yet they are in prison for horiedous crimes , a murderer will have jesus pics all over his cell,, a rapist will be working in the chapel,, a drug pusher will have jesus tattooos all over him makes you wonder what kind of people belive in god, and what it makes them do and anybody that has a house full of religoius stuff, is usuaslly deepely troubled and disturbed What in my last post makes you think I need help? Seriously, what part? What exactly makes you think that? The difference between you and me is I don't have to deal with all the crap in this world on my own. Why would I want to? I am not "disturbed". I don't need to look anymore. I have studied the real thing and can now see a counterfiet from a mile away. I have taken nothing out of context. I put it in context, it is differnt than what you want to believe so you reject it. Jail house religion is just that, religion. (Not that people in prison can't change because some do) I don't have a house full of religious stuff. I am not weak willed, I gurantee you that, ask anyone who knows me directly and most people who have been around a while here on the HQ. I have no problem giving an opion, be it Exhaust systems, tires or James Stewart vs Carmichael. Oh, and most importantly, "a book" did not save me. The Bible, the very Words of God help me to grow and understand what I am doing here. Jesus Christ saved me. When he died on a cross for my sin and then rose from the dead three days later defeating death so that I can have everlasting life, he saved me. He did it for me and he did it for YOU. There is so much that you will never be able to understand, patially because you don't want to and partially because you can't. I'm glad I am not alone. When I do what I do, I am glad to know God and his Angels are with me. I know that nothing is going to happen to me that is not part of God's plan. It really frees me up. If you can, will you cut and paste my posts that are out of context? maybe I did take something out of context. I will gladly look at what ever you think I am misunderstanding. Like I said before, God is in control, we are all here on this thread because he put us here. RJV Edited July 1, 2006 by rjvoight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helldriver Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) OR you can cut and paste what it ook out of context, and i'll show you id dint how bout where it says "kill all people that dont follow god" that is excaetly what it means no matter how you look at it,, that was not taken out of context,, it is what god wants you to do and btw, i get a stiffy when all the bible pushers get upset i just give off a little evil smrik, wkll those people in jail are follwing the book you hold so dear,, so why are they to be shuned by people such as yopurself? Edited July 1, 2006 by helldriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkc Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 HD, I'm not sure who you were referring to about being unclear (I'd rather be called an asshole I feel stupid If I've been unclear) but let me try again. Since your questions deserve to be answered just like rjv said. This is my perspective not necessarily true.I believe God left enough evidence to believe in him if you want and left out enough( if you so chose)not to believe in him.If there was too much evidence it would sway you towards him and throw the balance of free will off(I believe in limited freewill). nobody wants to be loved by coercion. most every examples of God's blatant presence (proof) wreaked men to the point of awe(most were believers anyway) and as far as contradictions 90% of the bible is easy to understand 10% can be really tough.If you give me a thoughtful example I'll try to anwser it, but most of those you gave earlier are simple just like my 4yr old's example(OH yeah just for clarity I don't have a 4yr old). Cool fourm to be part of thanks for not ignoring me I didnt want to pick up my marbles and go home. HD you keep thing interesting and thanks for your admission of not knowing everything, me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjvoight Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 No problem HD, and I have no intention of converting you. I do hope you look at some of this and understand why some of us believe what we do. This is a LONG POST. Feel free to question and I will try to answer in a much more compact form, maybe one topic at a time. Exodus 22:18 (not 17) My version says "you shall not alow a sorceress to live". Same diff. This is a long one so bear with me: So, Isreal has been in captivity of Egypt for centuries. Chapters 1-18 describe the process as to how they were freed from slavery. 19-40 Moses lays down the law, given to him by God. Almost ever verse has to do with what shall be done to those who murder, steal, break contracts etc. You name it, it is covered as to what the crime is and what the punishment is. There are also several laws in regard to how they were to deal with God. The laws were put in place for two reasons, one reason, to create a society that was orderly. Two was to show that no matter how hard they tried, they could not keep all the laws. This was to illustrate the need for a saviour, someone to bridge the gap so to speak between unholy people and a holy God. Now, to the law about witches......A witch or sorcerer/ess recieves power from "dark arts" or "magic". They present themselves as more than they are many times by trickery (similar to magicians today). In addition the "miricales" they performed were not of God but of demons / the Devil himself for the sole purpose of leading the people away from God. A Just and Holy God will not allow a person who is going to live among his chosen people to decieve and corrupt them. It was a crime directly against God and the punishment was death. Now, was that always the case, were these people simply found and lynched? I say no. Fast forward to Acts 8:9 "Now there was a certain man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria,claiming to be someone great;10 and they all from smallest to greatest were giving attention to him saying, "This man is what is called the Great Power of God". So this dude named Phillip comes along and preaches Jesus and Simon believes and starts traveling with Phillip and his crew. So Simon who was doing magic (some translations say "simon the sorcerer") but he changed his ways and realized what he was doing. There is more to the story, basically Simon shows he does not completely understand God and is later reprimanded. The point is he was not just axed right off the bat. Leviticus ?s 20:13 /27 Another long one read it all before you all go off on me. Chapter 20 is full of "do this and die" rules. In chapter 18, it opens like this "Then the Lord spoke to Moses, sayin, "speak to the sons of Israel and say to them I am the Lord your God. You shall not do what is done in the land of Egypt where you lived, nor ar you to do what is done in the land of Canaan where I am brining you, you shall not walk in their statues" Basically God is Holy and his people are to be holy, or "set apart / unto God". The Bible is clear on Homosexuality. (Don't Hate the Messenger) It is wrong and an abomination. God created man and woman, God created sex, it was intended for men and women, that is why dudes have a penis and women have a vagina, they go together like a bolt and a nut. (I am not passing judgement, it is just what the Bible says). Mediums/ Fortunetellers, its the same deal as with the sorcereress. But why do they have to die? That is a fair question. God is Holy. By his own definition he can not allow anything that is not Holy to be in his presence. His very nature will destroy anything that is not sinless and holy. If God did not, God would not be just and Holy. I know that sounds weird but its like if you took the H out of H2O, its not water. This also illustrates the need for a saviour. We can not on our own meet the requirements of God. When Jesus was born, lived, died and rose from the dead the rules changed. Christ died for all of us and the "death penalty" was lifted. This is Key to Christianity. Deuteronomy 25:5-6 Ok, you are a little confused here. He is not having sex with his brothers dead wife. The brother has died and left behind a wife, specifically before she/they had any children. Out of respect for the deceased brother it was the duty of the surviving brother to take the widow in marriage. If and when they have a son, the son was bear the name of the deceased brother in order to ensure the brothers name/family name would continue on. Freakin weird in todays society but normal and accepted in the time of Deuteronomy. All the Old Testament stuff sets the stage for Christ. Law after law after law, rule after rule after rule, all it does is show us there is no way for a human being to obey the law 100%. It's impossible. This is a huge post so I won't go into Noah much. I will say this though, It took him years to build, the entire time he was telling people, hey God is not putting up with what we are becoming. They did not listen. So God says ok, lets have the animals come, maybe that will get peoples attention. It did not. I think if I saw a bunch of animals marching the big boat built by the crazy man that maybe i would pay a little more attention, but the people did not. When the door closed it was to late. God was patient, he gave people plenty of time to think about what Noah was doing. He let the people see the animals and they still would not believe. It just shows how stubborn and proud they really were. Take care everyone- RJV How about this entire post, from June 9th. What was not answered? And what part of my answers are out of context? RJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkc Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 How about this entire post, from June 9th. What was not answered? And what part of my answers are out of context? RJV well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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