rkc Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 whoa whoa whoa whoooooooa. hold it there. let me clarify, I don't have a problem with em believing in "the god". I don't have a problem with em pushin' god either, I actually like to hear thier stories, Im not afraid of being converted, I have nothing to fear. Possibly might learn something I figure. I kinda figured that might have worded some of my posts in way that could'a sounded condensending. (I cant spell to save my life.) I'm not trying to offend anyone's beleifs, but I figured since we're on the topic of religion and I have always been sorta facinated by religious folk, I'd ask some silly questions that I frankly would like some answers too. Mind you, Im not facinated by religion, its the folks who are "into" religion that I dig talkin' too. The way I see this thread going, Helldriver made his point 62 times and all the relig' folk made thier points 61 times and its getting old and boring. So I tried to mix it up... :shrug: Also... I don't beleive in a god. So my comments are going to lean in that direction.... I agree I'm facinated by religious folk too in fact I think religion & politics are some of the most exciting topics to talk/debate about.I used to be a non believer so I really understand from both sides.This is a thread with volunteers on it so their is no forcing except that which is equal.If you could stop for a second and try to see it from a christians perspective. it's like your driving down a foggy highway late at night and you know the bridge is out behind you.You pass some one going in the opposite way.How much trouble should I go through to warn you of your perilous path.I think I should do my best even if you wave or flip me off. Now I know the bible is offensive and I shouldn't add to the offensive. The question in the end will be how much do I really care about others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 dueceman, good stuff. let me address b-rook first tho. im not picking on you. im just surprised to hear it from you since with everything else youre all about tolerance and respect and lets all get along. its ok and rational to scam the government for welfare but not to beliieve in god? its ok and rational to do drugs but not believe in god? Don't mix my words around. Your republican spin cycle is spinnin on high gear. How can someone as intelligent as you confuse my stand on those issue you mentioned ? Let me clarify "doll".... Its not ok to scam to the government for welfare, what is wrong is HAMMERING, and I mean hammering... "." for snatchin' up a buncha similac for his newborn baby. The fucker has been here long enough to garner a little more respect that what some people were giving him. I'd bet there's A WHOLE LOTTA FOLKS on the BansheeHQ forums doing a hellva lot worse things that he did. Im just sayin' cut the guy some slack, make your point and don't hammer him to submission over..... some babies milk. You missed that point tho. Ok. I advocate the right for people to choose to do drugs if they so please to. Im officially saying... herion is bad mmmkay. But WTF if you wanna do it, then stay out of my way and have fun. Weed rules tho :baseball_w00t: duece your reply has my head spinning with more questions.... but I gotta get to bed man. I wake up for work at 3:45 am and its ten of one now. TTYL... fight nice everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 dueceman, good stuff. let me address b-rook first tho. Don't mix my words around. Your republican spin cycle is spinnin on high gear. How can someone as intelligent as you confuse my stand on those issue you mentioned ? Let me clarify "doll".... Its not ok to scam to the government for welfare, what is wrong is HAMMERING, and I mean hammering... "." for snatchin' up a buncha similac for his newborn baby. The fucker has been here long enough to garner a little more respect that what some people were giving him. I'd bet there's A WHOLE LOTTA FOLKS on the BansheeHQ forums doing a hellva lot worse things that he did. Im just sayin' cut the guy some slack, make your point and don't hammer him to submission over..... some babies milk. You missed that point tho. Ok. I advocate the right for people to choose to do drugs if they so please to. Im officially saying... herion is bad mmmkay. But WTF if you wanna do it, then stay out of my way and have fun. Weed rules tho :baseball_w00t: :shrug: so i can steal for my baby if i have one and smoke pot, but if i ever decide to believe in god im all irrational and stuff? and dont spin the doink situation. i was all nice with him before, but its not like they are two needy people goin through some hard times and need formula for their baby. his girlfriend decided she didnt feel like working full time anymore so she scammed the welfare system. they have their nights out to dinner and shit while we pay for their formula. but hey as long as they dont believe in god, they are ok in your book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Blue Duece, have you read the bible ? front to back ? :baseballcap_orange: yeah i have a bunch of times........... i had it stuffed up my ass as a kid and find some of it, lets say un neccesary, but honestly it holds more water than anything else ive heard, and come on we couldnt just "be" somewhere somehow, something happened, the explotion theory doesnt wash, every wonder why all the planets we explore cant sustain life but earth does? why is that? if we wernt more complex than anything else some guy could rebuild your ass like you and i would resleeve a jug......i guess the god theory has been handed down over thousand's of years and the evolultion theory showed up a short time ago, it says in the bible man can put a crutch on his longevity but is basiclly a dead man walkin and how would they now then that all men will die? because one dude came along and proved the whole god theory, the shit helldriver is qouteing lines right up with what was written hundreds of years apart, its like reading some ones diary in 1885 and someone elses in 1999 and haveing them be the same, and an aithiest scientist dated the writeings, but hes probally wrong i guess, since he thinks a bomb went off and we appeared, theres a lot more proof theres a god than there is anything else, i mean we cant see god, but weve yet to see evolution either, so if someone said well "poof" one day we apeared, then theres a god we had to be made by something. and we all know a human ages from a baby allways has allways will, who raised the first child, where did the kids parents come from? theres a whole lot of question to answer for both arguements, but one things for sure, aitheists are about one percent of the entire population ................if a billion people think 2+2=4 and 62 think its 5, whos right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Meat let me give you my spinn on god, he's the father, im a father and i brought my kids here (i mean pretty much, they originated in my testicles) so i put them here on earth, like god did man...... follow me so far? ill try to think like god for a second: Q) so i walk in on my son jerking off, do i incinarate him?. A) no, i put him here and gave him a hand and a dick, i figured it only be so long before the two met up. Q) he kills someone. A) im really fucking pissed but, no i dont burn him forever. Q) he's hooked on speed and cant see the forest through the tree's. A) I love him i wish he'd listen to me, i can help him. Q) he's just a moron and has watched to many episodes of "Charmed" and thinks theres some kinda "darkman" thats going to come chat with him. A) naw ya cant fault him, somewhere along the line someone told him it was cool to be on the "Darkside" when really he's more confused than anything else, (i knew i should have never put him on the "special" bus in grade school) Q) he denouces me as his father, refuses to respect the fact im his father and pretty much tells me to fuck off he doesnt ever want to see me again. A) ok, fine asshole, i brought you into this world and ill take you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkc Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Blue Duece Interesting thinking and I think it's one of the best ways to arrive at the root.(deductive thinking; peel away the falsehoods to get to the only thing left TRUTH). Thats one of the ways I came to my final conclusion their is a God and I can prove him (a least come close).It's the most plausible scenario ever presented to man, truth that can be known and defended.The bible is time tested (whether you like it or not) and knowable as it compliments our brain design black & white.Many philosphers spent much of their lives tring to come up with a third way of thinking only to end in despair. If their is no god their is no right or wrong and all these pages are worthless.(best to get a desert island and LOTS OF BOOZE and plenty of women willing or not and turn to dust happy)I agree with you theyr'e very few real athiest most are agnostics (I don't know) and theyr'e are two kinds of those 1. dishonest; not searching 2. honest ; searching ps.did you serve in the military? if you did thanks for your service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helldriver Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) THERE IS no FATUAL PROOF OF anything in the BIBLE IS TRUE,,, and the bible only condradicts itself over and over again just cause some book says its so,,, doesnt make it so,, withoul factual proof, all the bible quotes, {thats you take out of context btw}" all the shit saying "oh scripture says, or god says, or jesus says,,, is not proof THOugh there is much scientific proof BUT science has not got all the answers either, {ya see UNLIKE you bible assholes, i can admit when they dont have all the answers} but i would have to belive facts thatn fiction and i STILL havent got the answer to the how can you defend a book thats says " kill everyone that dosent follow god"? and s till say its good? the bible has been twisted into something that it was not meant to be,, Edited June 30, 2006 by helldriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkc Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Again it,s not about proof but about probability.the more complex the concept the less likelihood of proof.(and God is complex) Can you prove gravity works the same over the whole earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helldriver Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) its more "probable" that some asshole with a bread DID NOT wave his magical wand and all of sudden 'POOF" there is the earth it has been PROVEN that the earth did not form that way it just hasent sunk into your simple mind yet even the Catholic church has reconized that Science is more correct in the way the earth was formed and what about the other planets? what were they gods failed attempts??? lol please and yes god is complex and conmfusing,, first he says to kill people, thjan he says to love people,, than he its ok to engage in necrophilla, than he says, kill unborn babies,, than he says follw me or die, than hes says, i love you hahah yup Edited June 30, 2006 by helldriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkc Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I'll answer it for you. HD; yes you can prove gravity works the same over the whole earth! Me; have you seen EVERYTHING fall to the ground? HD; no Me; 9 ducks in a row probability says;10th one is probably there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 ps.did you serve in the military? if you did thanks for your service. yeah i did do two tours in nam............. and i agree the truth is easy to see but theres a few who cant grasp it..........helldriver did you know they stoped teaching evolution in school because science cant prove it. you talk about books not being right just cause they say so........if i recall i learned about evolution out of a book, science, it had cool pictures of a fish turning into a monkey.......... all science books, total nonsense speculated by man at least the bible spans thousands of years by many different dudes who all say the same thing, yet they lived thousands of years apart, science is what about 150 years old?........gods not going to beem himself into your house and do a magic trick so you can believe, i think sincerly if you dont believe, theres plenty who do...........what rolls me about you ,is you keep saying, im sure this god shit is wrong, i dont know whats right but im sure god is wrong, that just makes you sound like a moron, dont spend your time cutting and pasting bible passages, go find out how man was created and post that, i have a bible i dont need you to post shit from it............... i need you to convince me theres not a god, your answer a question with a question just makes you seem ignorant, i realize your almost 40 years old and still think your 17, im sure your moms in the kitchen, go ask her if theres a god, and after you do that youd better grease the axle on your house............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 There is a 3-dimensional object embedded within the pattern. Seeing it is a matter of focusing your eye beyond the scribbles. If you focus on the design of scribbles that you know is there, you will never see the object that you don't know is there. ANALYSIS This is a stereogram. At first glance, the eye detects only patterns of scribble. You may try to make sense of the scribbles in the same way that people will look up into the sky and pick out clouds that resemble familiar objects. If you look at this picture long enough, you may imagine seeing faces or animals in it, but if you only look directly at the picture, anything you see will only have a subjective reality. In other words, what you are seeing isn't really there, but merely a construct of your imagination. However, this picture contains an objective reality. If you aren't familiar with this type of artwork, and if you haven't experienced seeing one of these hidden three dimensional images pop into view, you may think that I am a liar or a lunatic when I tell you that this poster contains a definitive and detailed image of a galloping horse. I am telling you that something exists based on my own visual perception and, until you see it for yourself, you won't have any reason to believe me. When one starts thinking spiritually, it isn't that they are thinking unclearly or illogically. They are simply thinking from a different perspective. Many principles, such as love, kindness, unselfishness and mercy, which are readily accepted as good by both Christians and non-Christians, can be destroyed by logic. For example, examine the following logical argument: 1. To be just, one must give to another exactly what that individual deserves to get, no more and no less. 2. To be fair, one must treat everyone equally. 3. To be merciful is to give an individual more than what they deserve to get (in reward) or less than what they deserve to get (in punishment). 4. Being merciful is therefore unjust. 5. Unless everyone can be treated with the same degree of mercy or kindness, to be merciful or kind to any one person is to be unfair. The consequence of attempting to live by this logical, sound and valid conclusion wouldn't be desirable. The above argument would demand that we not give to one person in need if we couldn't give the same amount to every person in need. Before we gave anything to anyone, they must be worthy of it. We would find ourselves living in a world without grace, without mercy, without forgiveness and without kindness. We would find ourselves justifying revenge and holding grudges and keeping score, all in order to be fair and just. How can logic result in such a world? What is wrong with the above argument? In an atheistic philosophy, there are certain things that concern the reality of life that must be accepted as illusion because, without God, that is the only thing they can be. We live our lives as if they have a real and genuine purpose. Most people will say that their lives have meaning, regardless of their philosophy. But a life that is created by chance, and natural selection, can have no inherent or objective purpose or meaning. Instead, such a life can only have a self-assigned, subjective meaning. A non-objective, self-assigned meaning is purely imaginary! It is a subjective opinion of what can only be a subjective reality. Conversely, a life created by design and a designer, such as the one described in Christianity, is given an objective purpose; its meaning is genuine and inherent. We may have different, subjective opinions as to what that purpose is, but these are subjective opinions concerning an objective reality. Being confronted with paradox forces one's mind to think ABOVE logic but not against it. For example, examine the statement, "Never less alone than when alone". If you break this sentence down into its components, logically it cannot make sense. Yet this phrase describes a very real type of individual; it is describing a person who considers himself to be his own best company. It tells of an individual who is content to spend hours lost in his own thoughts. You have to examine the paradox in the context of what you know to be true about human nature in order to understand it. It is assumed by the author that the reader will not be ignorant of this information. All the way from beginning to end, the bible contains paradoxes that push one's mind to look beyond what is written to that which is being implied. Skeptics view these paradoxes as errors but the alleged errors are due to poor reading comprehension and the inability to grasp what is being said within the context of the whole. Some of these paradoxes are presented as a unit, making them unlikely errors. For example, Proverbs 26:4-5 states, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit." A contradiction in logic would render these two statements as meaningless but there is a truth to be found in them. Other paradoxes are not so obvious and do not occur in close proximity to each other. A second type of paradox deals with morality. Paradoxes of this nature deal with the law and push the reader into the spirit of the law. Examples of moral paradox include issues of divorce, adultery (Deut 24:1-4 vs Mark 10:2-12), and God setting Himself above His own commandments. What appears to be ambiguity or contradiction or nonsense in the 'absolute declaration of law' can be reconciled or deemed as irrelevant when the reader understands the spirit of the law.... ....A skeptic is about to enter the forest to conduct a scientific study of great importance. Just as he begins his hike, he is met by a six-year-old boy who frantically warns, "Mister! Don't go into those woods on account of there's a monster that lives there and he'll eat you for lunch!" The skeptic condescendingly pats the boy's head and smugly explains that there are no such things as monsters, and then he enters the woods and promptly gets eaten by a bear. ANALYSIS Moral of the joke: The skeptic is smart enough to know that there are no such things as monsters but dumb enough not to take heed. Like the boy, Christians are attempting to describe that which they can't fully comprehend. Human logic + Holy Spirit = Divine logic I trust Jesus because I trust His spirit of truth and it speaks to me above all implied secret knowledge. Faith is not so much a decision based upon tangible facts as it is a direction that one looks to. Jesus saves that which is lost. Wisdom preserves that which is found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Blue Duece Interesting thinking and I think it's one of the best ways to arrive at the root. Thanks RK im trying to make my point without quoting the bible, i think god knows we are all sinners, and just wants what any parent wants, to be loved, when he wants us to be perfect he will as he promised "deliver us from temptation" helldrivers unfounded mockery, without anything to the contrary is absurd but very entertaining, i think he's thinking, to love god is to somehow bow down and be gods bitch or something, but we have very few flaws, that could be eliminated without the knowledge of temptation, and there are just way to many variables in our existents and, the composition of the earth, for this to be by chance, its simply impossible, way smarter more educated people than helldriver have tried to prove this point for centuries and cant and the chance of god coming down and telling all the none believers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yfzut Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 hey theres a unicorn in my backyard, i will write it down and fax it to all you beleivers and presto. new hope that one day you will get to ride one. yay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Human logic + Holy Spirit = Divine logic I trust Jesus because I trust His spirit of truth and it speaks to me above all implied secret knowledge. Faith is not so much a decision based upon tangible facts as it is a direction that one looks to. Jesus saves that which is lost. Wisdom preserves that which is found. nice 04 "Faith is not so much a decision based upon tangible facts as it is a direction that one looks to." you should have posted that 3 weeks ago........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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