Wallrat Posted March 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 I've always felt the top 3 were Axis TCS PEP in that order. Several others have agreed with me on that one. IMO elka's specialty isn't in suspension, its in marketing. Give out a bunch of free sets to key people, slap fancy names like "elite" and "dune edition", add a few bells and whistles that don't really make it perform any better and you've got yourself a winning combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txblueshee Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 I've always felt the top 3 were Axis TCS PEP in that order. Several others have agreed with me on that one. IMO elka's specialty isn't in suspension, its in marketing. Give out a bunch of free sets to key people, slap fancy names like "elite" and "dune edition", add a few bells and whistles that don't really make it perform any better and you've got yourself a winning combination. 487822[/snapback] Several shock rebuilding companies (j-h racing, balwdwin, precision) have told me that ELKA makes a nice shock... the problem is nobody there knows how to the damn things up.... Sure they ask about your riding style and bla bla bla but when you don't know valving that's all pretty much useless.... I'll agree with your shock choices on standard travel shocks.... I should've been more specific when I posted earlier..... I have rode several PEP standard travel setups and I was far from impressed to say the least but there LT setup is hard to beat... It's the exact opposite with TCS and well elka.... ya, um... marketing goes a long ways .... Guess I need to go change up some stickers on my axis so there ready for the dunes .... Mke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintoxicated Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 (edited) Well I dunno, people like different things, I like adjustability, and it has to be easy to adjust. Elka has it, many others don't. I would definately say the adjustment makes a BIG difference not no difference. I have not ridden enough other suspension to compare, but if the dunes are super choppy or all whooped out I jsut click the knob a few times to make the ride smoother. For me Elkas were only a little more than works of the same level, so thats what I went with... They don't just slap Dune eddition on the shock for more sales I have a whole article on what they changed in the shocks that makes them dune eddition, and elites have both high and low speed dampening.. These changes likely make a big difference. Low speed is more for cornering and steering while high speed is for jumps chop etc. The dune valving makes the shocks take chop smoothly but ALSO take the big hits with ease, or thats what it is supposed to do and it works for me. I would love to try some non dune elites and I'm guessing there would be quite a difference. The new series that is out allows you to adjsut the crossover point between the high and low speed dampening, I have no idea how useful that would be but it sounds interesting. At this point im hesitant to buy any shock with little adjustment because I can tell someone my style and they mgiht think they know what I want to do, but I want to be able to play with them a bit myself. I would go with Axis or Ohlins over TCS though IMO. I think the Ultimate shock would be high end Elkas with Ohlins valving in them (which is actualy what alot of the Pro's run) Edited March 17, 2006 by Justintoxicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallrat Posted March 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 (edited) Oh good...that post got deleted. Edited March 18, 2006 by Wallrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txblueshee Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I think the Ultimate shock would be high end Elkas with Ohlins valving in them (which is actualy what alot of the Pro's run) 488242[/snapback] Justin, your on to something there....At the rate they're going ohlins will be the shock to beat in 6 months... I"ve never ridden a set of elkas that were dialed in tits from them this past year .... 90% of the time somebody that knows what they're doing has to re-work them.... Another thing... TCS seem to work great on banshees but they're LT setup is awful on the yfz's and trx's.... My axis on the 450 were rebuilt right before I bought it in may of last year and they were ready to be refreshed right around september..... not that there was a heavy decline in performance but when the oil gets burnt/dirty the shocks aren't as fast as they were before.... On a side note I would love to see WALT chime in about the whole penske buying axis and them moving to PA thing... From what I hear in the pits it's more of a business with them now instead of doing it for the love of the game... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee370 Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thanks Mike! But my intentions are to only inform others what Ive learned, been taught and experienced. Maybe I'll PM you mike about Axis/elka/ohlins/pep..... I'd hate to get someones pantys in a bunch over facts. Matt: Give me a day to settle in... was a great weekend at Dumont again! Let me know when you will be around and I'll give you a call. If it wasnt for some crybaby cunts I'd post about it here, but I'm not about to deal with their bullshit again. loboboy: Your VERY correct... Ordering PEP's through wayne isnt as cut and dry as one would think. The only way to get pro quality shocks is to be a pro. I doubt anyone off the street will get that type of service, ESPECIALLY with Wayne's shitty attitude. btw; you missed a good weekend in the dunes Matt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallrat Posted March 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Ya ya...that figures. I'm around all week - just don't call me in the mornings since I'm working occassional night shifts. Anytime after noon is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNEDEMON Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Wow some actual intelligent some what fact based discussion going on - I like it. Matt give me a shout again if your not tooo busy triying to win computers on the radio - just to discuss your thoughts. Walt - Hey stranger CC me on the PM, I like to think I used to know a few things, fun to stay in the loop. You all settled out west now? Justin, oil change minimum every season, not sure where you come up with your figures on pricing.....You spent good $$ on your engine right? Change the oil in it to keep it running? Spent good $$ on those fancy shocks right? See where this is going.....Spen a few dollars on some tools, learn to do it yourself, you control the quality and it is actually quite simple. Here is what I think (yeah here we go) You have to ask yourself do I realy need all this adjustment for riding dunes? Can I actually discern the different changes the high & low speed on compression and rebound make? How much more enjoyable is my duning experience going to be with this set of shocks? I'll be the first to argue that suspension is the best $$ you can spend for your quad, but do really need to buy the biggest name most expensive shit out there? Ah what the hell do I know? I ride a 400EX for christ sake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintoxicated Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) Justin, oil change minimum every season, not sure where you come up with your figures on pricing.....You spent good $$ on your engine right? Edited March 20, 2006 by Justintoxicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNEDEMON Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Justin, at risk of hijacking Matt's thread I think you are missing my point. I'm not suggesting that you rebuild your shocks every season, just change the oil. During that process any problems or worn parts can be adressed. I'm sorry you are not pleased with the TCS rear, I think it's one of the best bangs for the buck, just sad to see you give up on it so early. If you were in any way familiar with the actual velocities and forces that are exerted on theat rear shock, perhaps you would be a bit more understanding. Are you sure it has failed? Fluid leaking? Fading like lack of nitrogen? Have you taken it off the bike and to someone familiar with TCS shocks for a cut and dried diagnosis? Are you sure the saft was not damaged and ruined the wiper seal? Lots of variables..... If I can help let me know. Matt - You know the 2 places I'd be spending my $$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Demon, what's up. This thread is bringing them all out of the woodworks... Alright, I guess I should add something positive to this thread..... Suspension IS Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintoxicated Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Justin, at risk of hijacking Matt's thread I think you are missing my point. I'm not suggesting that you rebuild your shocks every season, just change the oil. During that process any problems or worn parts can be adressed. I'm sorry you are not pleased with the TCS rear, I think it's one of the best bangs for the buck, just sad to see you give up on it so early. If you were in any way familiar with the actual velocities and forces that are exerted on theat rear shock, perhaps you would be a bit more understanding. Are you sure it has failed? Fluid leaking? Fading like lack of nitrogen? Have you taken it off the bike and to someone familiar with TCS shocks for a cut and dried diagnosis? Are you sure the saft was not damaged and ruined the wiper seal? Lots of variables..... If I can help let me know. Matt - You know the 2 places I'd be spending my $$ 489935[/snapback] I'm thinking it must be lack of Nitrogen, however when i talked to TCS I forgot the guys name he explained that it would be at least $100 and needed to be compleatly rebuilt every year. Nothing like "oh we will just recharge the nitrogen, there must be a leak or you need to have the oil changed." He said all they could do is rebuilt it and did not understand what I wanted them to do since all they do is rebuild them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee370 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Dunedemon: Hopefully we can keep this an informative thread! I cant say that I'm settled out here tho... Wife is still back east until the boys are out of school. I've been here since the end of january. (been to the dunes 4-5 times already too!) hehe I'm not looking forward to the weather when I return home this weekend. BLECK! Besides that it kicks ass out here. I love my job even though this market is a pure mess. Ok back on subject Please justin dont take this wrong. Some people (SOME) like the extra added bells & whistles but yet never use them while others over tweak to the point of excessiveness. Most people screw with shit and make things worse because they dont understand what they are really doing. (no I dont mean you.. just a general description) When I first received my TCS the rear was not adjusted correctly (out of the box) I fiddled with it but could never get it right. I've never had it serviced (i know i know) I had one of my guys from K&K dial it in for me and I have yet to mess with it. The fronts were similar and after having them rebuilt I have not needed to make any adjustments. It rides very soft and takes what I throw at it every time. Ask anyone that has ridden my shee and they can attest to it. Even tho AXIS/Penske shocks arent built in cali anymore doesnt mean they are no good. Yes their service isnt what it used to be.... How could it when its now done in house? Todd (TCS) is good people and still CARES about what he does. (dont get me started on ELKA or PEP) As for your issues with TCS... I would think it was/is a lack of communication between you and todd(who ever on the phone) sometimes how we desribe something means something totally different to someone else. Nitrogen leaks are just bad bladders. Its not all that hard or expensive to change. Most of the time a "shock service" consists of more than just fresh oil and a nitrogen charge. If you describe problems or issues with your shocks then I could see a "service" costing you more $ since they are "expecting" to do more work on your shocks (valving/springs/ect) then a normal service. To mirror what dunedemon said above....... SUSPENSION SUSPENSION SUSPENSION!!! You can ride so much faster and safer with BETTER suspension. But remember you get what you pay for. Sure WORKS is a huge step up from stock, but the next step wont be cheap, but will be WORTH every penny. We all spend tons of money on bling bling, but whats that get you? (besides looks) Yes guys I still lurk from time to time.... and still alive! The move is keeping me super busy so I'm not around as much as I'd like. Lets hit the dunes next season! I may get to the dunes one more time this year (coral pink) or if I can pull things off I may hit Idaho in June for roostfest06-St.Anthonys. Otherwise it will be next season! Lets ride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallrat Posted March 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Don't worry folks. I don't mind a hijack that is full of useful information. Now if somebody comes in here and wants to start some shit then that'll get under my skin... Justin did you talk to Todd directly yet like I suggested? I agree that it sounds like a nitrogen leak. I'm far from an expert on shocks but noticeable fade from one trip to the next sounds like more of an issue than just oil getting gummed up by normal use. Maybe DUNEDEMON knows, can you just stick a pressure gauge on the ressy to measure if you've still got nitrogen? I think a drive out to Lake Elsinore and a meeting w/ Todd directly will get alot more accomplished than just talking on the phone to one of his flunkies. He could probably test the shock while you wait and get you a definative answer to your problem. Just ask when you talk to him. Another question - I've got nitrogen here at my work so I'm thinking that it might be worth it for me to snag some regulators so I can service the shock myself. What kinda PSI are we talking about here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Don't worry folks. I don't mind a hijack that is full of useful information. Now if somebody comes in here and wants to start some shit then that'll get under my skin... 490146[/snapback] screw you matt, i dont like your tone. you go to hell. you go to hell and you DIE ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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