Justintoxicated Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 (edited) Stronger then Fireball? take a look at the banshee/raptor heims they are identical. Fireball been making those arms for years. Must not be too weak if Janseen racing/Denton/ATV fourplay/Sanddragon/many others run them? 423134[/snapback] LOL they are not even close to the same wth are you talkign about? I have heard from many people about problems with Janseen Heims... I can take a pic of you want when I get my a-arms back fromt the chromer. I also talked to Gary at Quicksand, he informed me that the heims fireball Janseen etc use are all the same and are inferior quality to what he provides. yea Janseen may have lifetime warranty, but who wants to endo over the bars goign 80 mph down a drag stip...The least of your worries will be the lifetime waranty on the heim joint that failed. Edited October 5, 2005 by Justintoxicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanddragon2004 Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 (edited) Im not sure why you guys feel like bashing fireball? They are one of the largest atv suspension manufacture in the world. Period. Yes please take a pic of the heim up close. I mean i could be wrong, but if memory serves they are using the same heim that Fireball uses in their banshee/raptor suspension. as for them being weaker, Please every one that has a failed heim from fireball. As in a broken heim joint, or Stud, lets see a pic. O and Id love a show of hands of the guys that have had one of these heims fail under load, as in while riding? since their is such a big concern of them failing. I would imagine their are probably plenty since fireball has been shipping 300+ sets a month for the past 7 years? one of 8 racks in Fireball racings shop. FYI anyone intersted got about 50 banshee swing arms, and 40 or so billet drag axles iin stock as well. O and I will have in about 3 days 45 sets of drag a arms in stock. Edited October 6, 2005 by sanddragon2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNEDEMON Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Custom creations started by kevin formerly a Fireball employee. 423131[/snapback] Who told you this? Do you personally know Him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBoy Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Run to the government huh? design a few things and watch every one copy your stuff and sell it for cheaper and all that time you spent testing/developing going down the tube for some one else to reep your benefits you will understand why companies patent their ideas. FYI/ the R&D that went into designing those very $$$$$$$ 423135[/snapback] You make my point for me. This is too easy. Yes, just cause you designed it, paid for it, and invested your blood sweat and tears, keeps no one from running to the patent office and patenting the design first. 85 huh? There were no atv suspensions in 85 since there were no atv's yet. The LT250R was the first and it came out in 85. I give my opinion on Fireball because I think that people should avoid the crap they build. They have a mediocre design. They use inferior parts. Their customer service when I bought mine was nonexistant. They moved and never would return calls to my dealer. I had to figure out where they moved to, and by then was so fed up, I replaced the ball joints myself. All I wanted to know was what the balljoints were from so I could replace them. The only reason they are still on the bike is I am not sure if I want to sell the arms, or the whole quad. I will never purchase another part from them, and I make sure I know who they supply and avoid them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanddragon2004 Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Yes i personally know him! I used to sell his product. Im sorry that you had a bad experience with fireball racing several years ago. I never said they where building a arms since 1985 they have been around since 1985. I have personally sold hundreds of a arms with out any problems what so ever yet. I have had nothing but good experiences with them, and plan to continue to deal with them. I would be happy to help you sell your fireball racing a arms, and get you replacement parts to repair anything damaged or worn. Feel free to give me a call i hvae many of the fireball parts for the spindles/tierods, and heim joints in stock. Monkey boy, im curios, what products exactly did you buy that you are so unhappy with? ultra cross a arms? how old are they? maybe we can shed some light on it. Rather then just say his stuff is crap what exactly is it that is so mediocre? he uses high grade chromoly and high quality heims and hardware so im a bit puzzled as to what exactly you think is so crapy? I have personally delt with alot of other companies and find his to be of the highest quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanddragon2004 Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Are there any places that make hiem joints that fit Laeger A Arms as a direct replacemnt for the ball joints? Is there a universal size most of the arms use? I know alot of A arm kits out there come with hiem joints now instead of ball joints. 402835[/snapback] What size ball joints do you use? I have 3/4" heims that would proably fit just depends on your thread size for the arms, they may be to big but u never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNBRAD Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 As far as heim joint failures, are we talking snapping the spindle bolt? Only way I can see a heim joint fail is if it is too worn and the ball pops out of the body. Is this a poor design or a maintenance/inspection issue? I've heard of the spindle bolt nuts coming loose and popping out, same with tie rods. I'm just wondering where's the lawsuits and injured people from these things failing from poor design, quality and craftsmanship? I can understand something failing from lack of maintenance and inspection, happens with anything. But if it's a product like rax swingarms and they collapse like mudmoo's did, there's a problem and I think it would be well known. I also talked to Gary at Quicksand, he informed me that the heims fireball Janseen etc use are all the same and are inferior quality to what he provides. Same thing Ford told me when I asked them about Chevy's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintoxicated Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) As far as heim joint failures, are we talking snapping the spindle bolt? Only way I can see a heim joint fail is if it is too worn and the ball pops out of the body. Is this a poor design or a maintenance/inspection issue? I've heard of the spindle bolt nuts coming loose and popping out, same with tie rods. I'm just wondering where's the lawsuits and injured people from these things failing from poor design, quality and craftsmanship? I can understand something failing from lack of maintenance and inspection, happens with anything. But if it's a product like rax swingarms and they collapse like mudmoo's did, there's a problem and I think it would be well known. Edited October 7, 2005 by Justintoxicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNBRAD Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Jannsens elite heims are aircraft grade aluminum uppers and chromoly lowers with kevlar teflon injection. They come anodized with boot covers for a mere 329.00 a set. I don't know if fireball makes them or not. I understand that some will wear out faster depending on material used but when you said people were getting hurt with their heims, was kind of misleading. All heims will wear out, it's our job to make sure they are in good operational condition. If you crash cause your heim is worn out, that's your problem. If you crash due to heims snapping left and right, that's a manufacturer issue. I was under the impression that these units were causing accidents due to breakage not wear. If we want the best heims, there are titanium bodied heims with stainless steel sphericals. I don't think anyone would want to pay for them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanddragon2004 Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) They look identical to me. Ill have to snap some photos to illustrate. Remember I said Custom Creations formerly of fireball, Where do you think he got the idea from? here is our chromoly heim. Edited October 7, 2005 by sanddragon2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanddragon2004 Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) here is a set of bare chromoly arms we sell just to illustrate, no powder or chrome to hide any of the quality of welds or materials. remember i also said Fireball has been making heim jointed a arms for about 7 years? go to quicksands website and see when he started his company. it is in 2000. so for about 2 years prior these arms where being sold by many with many many heim joints out on the market. 300 a month times 7years. How many is that? to illustrate my point of the strength, this bike is riden by Melissa walker of ATP racing, one of our "Sponsored Riders" Pic taken at lorettas. Edited October 7, 2005 by sanddragon2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNEDEMON Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Remember I said Custom Creations formerly of fireball, Where do you think he got the idea from? 423883[/snapback] WOW that is a bold statement ^ Are you implying he stole or copied someones design? Choose your words carefully my friend. I'm not sure I understand your logic here. Kevin (Custom Creations owner) worked for Fireball YEARS AGO so what, everyone has worked someplace else before their present job, and hopefully you learn and refine your skills to the point that you can improve upon them and put them to good use at your new job. Kevin built most if not all of the fixtures they use(d) and probably some of yours too... care to comment on that? So what is your point? Please show us another arm that resembles Kevins utilising the spherical bearing & spindle stud. remember i also said Fireball has been making heim jointed a arms for about 7 years? go to quicksands website and see when he started his company. it is in 2000. so for about 2 years prior these arms where being sold by many with many many heim joints out on the market. 300 a month times 7years. How many is that? 423883[/snapback] Big deal, Firestone sold lots of tires, and lots of those tires ended up on the Ford Explorer... Just because a manufacturer sells "300 a month for 7 years" does not make them the best around. So please enlighten us, what exactly does Sand Dragon Motorsports design, test, develop, and manufacture 100% in house??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanddragon2004 Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) now you are just reading into what I have said. I know for a fact kevin did not build the fictures. most of those fixtures are post Kevin. Dont beleve me, im sure "LARRY" can vouch for that. 400ex, yfz450, ds650,450r,banshee/raptor LT, all build post Kevin just to name a few, not including all the LT for those bikes, and DRAG for those bikes. R&D as we speak Long Travel Desert ARMS/SPINDLES DRAG a arms/DRAG Spindles DRAG Chassis/Double A ARM Long TRAVEL Banshee engine(loosely based yfz450 geometry) but what ever, not important, seems more like a FIREBALL/Sanddragon Bashing contest, why dont I let you win and be done with it. You are the bigger better badder suspension, Custom Creations is bigger better, lighter, faster, more reliable. My stuff is crap. Edited October 7, 2005 by sanddragon2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintoxicated Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) DUDE the Heims I showed look NOTHING like yours. Not to mention I have the same Heims for upper and lower arms. The ones I pictured appeared much thicker beefier and also important are the way they attach to the arms of the bike. And there are also noticable differences with Gary's Quicksand Racing. He uses a 1 piece design. Nuff said... And Going back to the origional argument, as has been stated many times by RNBRAD You need to constantly inspect Heims for wear. If you stick with your balljoints they are compleatly sealed. I have yet to see or even imagine a sealed Heim Joint. Cheaper Heims wear faster I would hate to have to replace mine every 6 months or so like some people have experienced (I"m not saying Fireball specificaly either). If yours are such high quality then I can't even imagine the quality of the Quicksand Heim. Edited October 7, 2005 by Justintoxicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNEDEMON Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 now you are just reading into what I have said. I know for a fact kevin did not build the fictures. most of those fixtures are post Kevin. Dont beleve me, im sure "LARRY" can vouch for that. 400ex, yfz450, ds650,450r,banshee/raptor LT, all build post Kevin just to name a few, not including all the LT for those bikes, and DRAG for those bikes. R&D as we speak Long Travel Desert ARMS/SPINDLES DRAG a arms/DRAG Spindles DRAG Chassis/Double A ARM Long TRAVEL Banshee engine(loosely based yfz450 geometry) but what ever, not important, seems more like a FIREBALL/Sanddragon Bashing contest, why dont I let you win and be done with it. You are the bigger better badder suspension, Custom Creations is bigger better, lighter, faster, more reliable. My stuff is crap. 423907[/snapback] I'm not bashing anyone, I was meerley defending Kevin who happens to be a very tallented fabiractor and a close personal friend of mine, when you implied that because he used to work for fireball his products are duplications of theirs and therefore no better it struck a nerve. Granted he could not possibly have made the fixtures for some of the bikes you noted above because they had not been produced yet, but we both know the real story don't we? I wont get into that... You post here in what seems to be an attempt to sell sell sell, very seldom do you provide any useful or meaningful information in discussions technical or otherwise. It is always Sand Dragon this or Sand Dragon that. Furthermore you publicly bash other builders (a very poor sales tactic - try that on Glamisdunes.com see where it gets you) yet you skirt around questions pertaining to the design, development, and testing aspects of your products. So I'll ask again... What exactly does Sand Dragon Motorsports design, test, develop, and manufacture 100% in house??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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