BrianEb Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Sand Dragon, Janssen, Denton Long Travel arms are all made by Fireball Racing and they all have Bump Steer on a Banshee. What is Bump Steer? Ru better off getting +2 +1 arms with some wheel spacers I'm almost ready to buy LT arms just need more info to make an educated purchase. I went to Baja MX in MI. and without a decent suspension the track will beat you down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 bumpsteer is when the cycling motion of the control arms adversely affects the steering. depending on where the arm is in the travel range you may get sever toe-in or toe-out. its caused by the wide stance of the lower frame rails, and is very difficult to correct. LT to a banshee means long shock. this has several advantages, but they would probably only seen on extremely rough terrain. baja is a perfect example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianEb Posted August 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Thanks for clearing that up for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee~ Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Sand Dragon, Janssen, Denton Long Travel arms are all made by Fireball Racing and they all have Bump Steer on a Banshee. What is Bump Steer? Ru better off getting +2 +1 arms with some wheel spacers I'm almost ready to buy LT arms just need more info to make an educated purchase. I went to Baja MX in MI. and without a decent suspension the track will beat you down. 402743[/snapback] Why would your put wheel spacers on +2+1 arms? They are cheap and could break if you jump alot. Get some +3 +1 arms and ditch the wheel spacer idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBoy Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Bump steer, in a properly designed Banshee suspension, will not start being no9ticable until over 10 inches of wheel travel. It's not bad during the large percentage of riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 To sum it up, bump steer is anything that changes the direction of the front tires other than rider input. Like, hitting a pothole or rut and your tires jamming to the left or right... Typically, you want the center of your wheel, centered over the ball joints of the steering knuckle. Wheel spacers will push the centerline of the wheel far from there and give you some bad bumpsteer, I would NOT recommend it for the front. You can help control bump steer with a steering stabilizer, like Noss Machine sells. I have that exact one and it helps. Another way to eliminate is to move the wheel centerline, like using 4-1 offset wheels, this makes bumpsteer a thing of the past, but it narrows you up an inch on each side, so most peeps won't run it. 3-2 is stock and you shouldn't have problems at that offset. Flipping wheels or using a wider offset can give you problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBoy Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Dude, you totally have bumpsteer wrong. Bumpsteer is the change in steering as the wheel runs through it's range of travel. From fully compressed, to fully extended. If you have a ATV stand, put your banshee in it. Take off one front shock. Center the bars, and move the free wheel up and down. That change in steering is bump steer. No steering stabilizer will cure faulty suspension geometry. Wheel spacers only move the wheel, not change the suspension action, thus no bumpsteer change. You change bumpsteer by adjusting the relative mounting points of the upper and lower a arms to the frame, as well as the tie rod to steering stem mounts. Don't mean to bust your chops, but you got it all wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCBanshee7 Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Uh oh, here we go!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBoy Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Like I said, Im not busting anyone's chops, just explaining it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeBrian Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Good info MonkeyBoy I always wondered what the hell bumpsteer was.This willl help me with what to order for my front end when it's time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Bump steer is a change in steering going through it's travel as you mentioned, but it's caused by ANY "outside force" or ANYTHING other than the steering wheel. Bump steer is when your wheels steer themselves without input from the steering wheel. This steering change is caused by bumps changing the direction of the front wheels and by bumps in the track interacting with the angles of your suspension and steering linkages like you mentioned... but, what causes the suspension to move up and down? It wouldn't be a concern if the world was smooth, but it's not. The bumps, holes, etc. is what causes these changes. Bumps affect the steering in two ways. 1) causing the suspension to compress, 2) directly affecting the direction of the wheels. What most people feel and refer to as bump steer in the atv world is the direct steering changes of bumps. We encounter so much rough terrain that if all we had to deal with was the arc of the suspension, we'd be great, but it's not and that steering change caused by the arc is fairly minimal when comparing it to hitting a baseball sized rock at 40mph. Sure, on a TT track or racing cars or something, that's a lot different, but that's not what we're discussing. The perfect way to correct this steering change would be to make both the length and the center point of the two arcs of suspension travel the same so there is no steering change through the travel. We can't do that, so the best way to fight this is to use a wheel that will provide the least amount of side leverage on the tire so your mainly dealing with vertical bump steer and to try to control it all with a stabilizer. And if you can't control bump steer with a stabilizer, why is there such a HUGE market for them and 99% of all racers rely heavily on them, including myself. Have you ever ridden with one? You don't think wheel spacers affect wheel travel? First off your placing the wheel so far away from the ball joints, the leverage a bump, hole, log would have on the steering is greatly enhanced. Also, moving the wheel farther away from the inside pivoting point does increase travel and therefore creates more issues with the arc of the travel, not too mention make the springs softer than what they're designed to do which will affect the overall speed of the travel. If you think it's fine to run wheel spacers up front and there will be no adverse effects to the steering, then go for it. Your way too technical and trying to show everyone how smart you are. I was trying to be very basic to make it easy for people to understand and explain it in a simpler way. Have a good one MonkeyBoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBoy Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 I disagree with the part where you say that bumpsteer is in any way related to ground conditions. It's purely a frame geometry issue. I know wheel spacers will amplify an already bad design, but they do not cause bump steer. In this regard, you are confusing steering leverage and bump steer. I don't recommend wheel spacers, or wide offset wheel to anyone who want to run their quad past second gear. It's just a band aid for the wider suspension you want. Here's Steeda's definition of bumpsteer... Steeda Bumpsteer definition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredish Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Here's Steeda's definition of bumpsteer... Steeda Bumpsteer definition 403556[/snapback] I'll say this and I'm done. It's no big deal and no need for us to get in a pissing match. That "definition" is in regards to automobiles and the principal is 100% the same, I agree with you completely. Where I differ, as you already know by now, is that these steering changes are also affected by terrain. You hit an 6" stump with your left front, that's going to compress your left front shock and jam the front of your quad to the left. In extreme situations, this has broken and jammed wrists. This is also known as bumpsteer. My truck has 7" of lift. On occasion, if I hit some pretty big potholes or joints, it'll cause the steering wheel to jerk to either direction. This is also bumpsteer. The combination of the suspension compression and the leverage on the front wheel/tire. As I said, I agree with you on the principle of what bumpsteer is, and hitting these... obstacles, we'll call them, basically points out this flaw in a suspension setup. If you can build a suspension the way it should be in a perfect world, then bumpsteer would be so minimal, it wouldn't be noticeable, and when you hit these obstacles, the suspension would compress and rebound the way it should with no change in direction. Basically, this is what I know and this is a standard in our "industry; Bump steer = Anything that changes the direction that a tire is pointed, other then rider input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBoy Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Nope no pissing match necessary. Neither one of us filled in our definitions with abuse. I just knew someone would blow up what I didn't say. Discussion ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super88_banshee Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 What is Bump Steer? 402743[/snapback] Something a predator has virtually none of... Thats what the ad said anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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