DeTuning cub motors...

[Ducman]

[89Steeda]

I'm gonna start by saying 99% of Cubs get at least a clean up port before going on an engine. If its a bad casting, I believe that Calvin will replace it even after it has been modded.

As for the "And what is the great benny to a chrome bore???". That has been posted in this post a couple of different times. I suggest one goes back and reads. The stock Banshee bore is outdated tech. Most new machines come with a Nikasil bore. Nikasil is tough. If properly taken care of, will last almost forever. End of the season, just replace the piston and rings, good to go. Has a better heat transfer to boot. Go here http://usnicom.com/ to learn more.

Again, up till now, EVERY stock cylinder stroker combo motor has the piston coming out of the cylinder.(Unless you use a spacerplate). EVERY good running stroker also has custom cut domes. I can go to ANY of the good builders and get a set of domes just by telling them what I have.

And this is part is directed at Sandstar, I have a hard time listening to any advice given by someone that apparantly does not know much about stroker motors or current technology. If you don't know that the pistons can come out the top a little, why would you argue with guys that know. Pretty insane. One last thing, did you get your name from the tires you run?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, its just how you deliver yours that gets to me. Sorry.

[Wallrat]

Man I miss the good old days of the HQ. I was reading through this thread (amazing since I never bother to read threads anymore) and was trying to put my finger on why the HQ is so lousy anymore. I think it all boils down to respect. Not long ago, hell a year ago, if Dan, Walt, Jim, JKJK, etc had posted an explaination on some kind of new engine theory, everybody would have listened. Oh sure there'd be questions/concerns/doubts but these would be shared without insults or machoism. In return, the more knowledgeable members would have been able to explain themselves without being called 'fuckface', which really makes things more enjoyable for everyone. I'm not sure when or why respecting another member of the HQ was thrown out, but seriously people...isn't it getting old? We all ride banshees, we all will eventually have questions about them. That doesn't make any of us idiots. That doesn't mean that people need to bash us for our setup when we should have gone the same route that they went. We ride a machine that is unique. Why would anyone that sacrificed the latest technology for a 18 year old, but unique, toy want to turn around and make it exactly like everybody elses'?

 

 

I dunno, maybe I'm turning hippy on this but I look at the members of the HQ and think, "hey that guy rides a shee too...can't be that bad a person."

[Koolguyson]

good to see everybody getting along a little better.

 

Sand, a piston can have a postivie deck height as long as the ring doesnt come out of the bore (in simplist terms). You can take a stock cylinder, put a 4mm stroker in it and the piston will have a positive deck height of about 1.5mm or approx .060. This is how thousands of stokers are built and its perfectly fine.

 

A good OTD estimate is 1100 complete w/o a crank.

[neilgf]

Man I miss the good old days of the HQ.  I was reading through this thread (amazing since I never bother to read threads anymore) and was trying to put my finger on why the HQ is so lousy anymore.  I think it all boils down to respect.  Not long ago, hell a year ago, if Dan, Walt, Jim, JKJK, etc had posted an explaination on some kind of new engine theory, everybody would have listened.  Oh sure there'd be questions/concerns/doubts but these would be shared without insults or machoism.  In return, the more knowledgeable members would have been able to explain themselves without being called 'fuckface', which really makes things more enjoyable for everyone.  I'm not sure when or why respecting another member of the HQ was thrown out, but seriously people...isn't it getting old?  We all ride banshees, we all will eventually have questions about them.  That doesn't make any of us idiots.  That doesn't mean that people need to bash us for our setup when we should have gone the same route that they went.  We ride a machine that is unique.  Why would anyone that sacrificed the latest technology for a 18 year old, but unique, toy want to turn around and make it exactly like everybody elses'?

    I dunno, maybe I'm turning hippy on this but I look at the members of the HQ and think, "hey that guy rides a shee too...can't be that bad a person."

384438[/snapback]

I'll second that

[SANDSTAR]

I'm gonna start by saying 99% of Cubs get at least a clean up port before going on an engine. If its a bad casting, I believe that Calvin will replace it even after it has been modded.

As for the "And what is the great benny to a chrome bore???". That has been posted in this post a couple of different times. I suggest one goes back and reads. The stock Banshee bore is outdated tech. Most new machines come with a Nikasil bore. Nikasil is tough. If properly taken care of, will last almost forever. End of the season, just replace the piston and rings, good to go. Has a better heat transfer to boot. Go here http://usnicom.com/ to learn more.

Again, up till  now, EVERY stock cylinder stroker combo motor has the piston coming out of the cylinder.(Unless you use a spacerplate). EVERY good running stroker also has custom cut domes. I can go to ANY of the good builders and get a set of domes just by telling them what I have.

And this is part is directed at Sandstar, I have a hard time listening to any advice given by someone that apparantly does not know much about stroker motors or current technology. If you don't know that the pistons can come out the top a little, why would you argue with guys that know. Pretty insane. One last thing, did you get your name from the tires you run?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, its just how you deliver yours that gets to me. Sorry.

384407[/snapback]

 

Ok. seems you wanna keep flaming. I have a stroker. I also have stock bikes. I also own a friggin polaris, so don't assume what the hell I have or what experience you think I lack.

I am aware that many things can be done to make a banshee faster (or slower in this case). I also know that the more you modify the motor, the more attention it requires to keep it in top shape. I am also aware that Yamaha has been using nykasil on certain bikes for a while now. The Banshee is just a whole different beast than Yamaha's 4 stroke motors. I doubt nykasil wil be just like new if you melt a piston.

Banshee's DEMAND careful maintanance jetting-wise. The motor is basically very hard on itself just because of the nature of a two stroke.

 

If you sell this to a person who knows NOTHING about jetting,(most people) he will end up just as blown as if he had some stock jugs. Then they will wish they could have read some counter points on this set up in order to make the best decision possible in regards to how involved they are with the mechanical side of their Banshee. I know people who only ride their Banshee twice a year. Thanksgiving and Halloween. They go out with a perfectly running stock bike, try to drag, get beat, and then say,"As soon as I get back, I'm gonna get a stroker." I discourage them from doing so because I know they will not maintain the bike properly. Hell, they can't even change jets in what they currently have. If you say that this mod is a perfectly safe and trouble free way to make your Banshee a tree loving machine, I say not so.

 

And I really don't care if you listen to me or not.

 

If you sell this to a person who knows a few things about jetting and the like, and wants to slow down his cubs, right on. But don't call me a fuckface or call me stupid for not buying a builders opinion wholesale.

 

I really don't think the initial point of this thread is being addressed.

 

Detuning some hot cyls to run at less than peak performance doesn't make sense to some of us. Obviously it makes sense to some of you, and thats cool. But damn, let us sand dwellers say our piece.

[SANDSTAR]

I'll second that

384440[/snapback]

I'm with you there. We all may fight like cats and dogs, but if you ride a Banshee, you are cool with me. We are just having a small difference of opinion here. Nothing to write home about. You all must admit, this thread is more fun than postiong in " WHAT IS A PLUG CHOP??"

[tOj]

One last thing, did you get your name from the tires you run?

384407[/snapback]

 

I'm sure they where out in November 03 right?

[Koolguyson]

Actually i believe the question was addressed.

 

The cubs are decked for a few reasons. One to drop the trans and ex. timing. This will give a less pipey motor and more mid range. Benefits in riding this setup is for the woods riders they wont have such a violent power band. Price wise, the cylinders obviously cost some money but cost of port work is easily cut in half since they are great out of the box.

 

I dont see any reason why you dont agree with what Dan is doing with this cylinder. 2005 cyllinder technology to replace an unmodified 1985 cylinder. Personally ive seen more extreme cases of "WTF were you thinking" but in this case the work was justified and had great results. So why argue? lol

[locogato11283]

kool, i was wondering what kinda rpm range these decked cylinders are making? i know for trails i like having that bottom and midrange. do you know what kinda power curve they are making?

[Koolguyson]

kool, i was wondering what kinda rpm range these decked cylinders are making? i know for trails i like having that bottom and midrange. do you know what kinda power curve they are making?

384852[/snapback]

 

 

I sure havent seen any graphs of this particular motor setup. But i know what Dan is accomplishing with this configuration. The motor themselves are capable of any rpm really. Its impossible to tell without knowing what pipe they are using and how they are cutting the heads. That ultimantly is what derives the engine rpm.

 

If i were to guess on the power they are making id guess anywhere from 3-5 more hp through the first 6500-7000rpm depending on pipe and only a few hpsacrificed on top. Again depending on pipe.

 

Guys, please dont think that decking a cylinder to lower the cylinder a few degrees will cause a 20% decrease in topend power. We are only talking a few lost hp and a lot more mid. Again, you are shifting where the power is made, not losing it completely.

[SANDSTAR]

I'm sure they where out in November 03 right? 

384813[/snapback]

If he wants to see what tires I run, He could just go to the video section and search for "handing a dirt bike his ass". That is my true 350. And no, those are not sandstar paddles.

 

That bike was built by me. Not the fastest, but when I win, its ALL me.

 

Your cut-downs suck 89 steeda. How much did you say your girlfriend weighs?

[SANDSTAR]

I sure havent seen any graphs of this particular motor setup. But i know what Dan is accomplishing with this configuration. The motor themselves are capable of any rpm really. Its impossible to tell without knowing what pipe they are using and how they are cutting the heads. That ultimantly is what derives the engine rpm.

 

If i were to guess on the power they are making id guess anywhere from 3-5 more hp through the first 6500-7000rpm depending on pipe and only a few hpsacrificed on top. Again depending on pipe.

 

Guys, please dont think that decking a cylinder to lower the cylinder a few degrees will cause a 20% decrease in topend power. We are only talking a few lost hp and a lot more mid. Again, you are shifting where the power is made, not losing it completely.

384866[/snapback]

To sand freaks, a few on top means losing 20% more races!

[noobie]

To sand freaks, a few on top means losing 20% more races!

385030[/snapback]

 

Or winning 20% more races by having the mid range needed. Who said all races were in a straignt line up a hill?

[Koolguyson]

To sand freaks, a few on top means losing 20% more races!

385030[/snapback]

 

 

Bet you that 20% is eaten up in a poorly setup clutch anyway. Or poor jetting and/or shitty gearing. Only time 5hp is going to help you is if you know what you are doing and have a well setup bike. 95% of the people dont. And the other 5% wont need decked cylinders...