DeTuning cub motors...

[rocketboy]

Trinity became  a product of corporate America.  Just when things are good and business is going well, management thinks they can make it better.  Cut cost by hiring under trained labor, cutting corners where ever possible, micro manage everything(even the parts that don't need it), and keep the increased profits for themselves instead of passing them on to the consumer.  Eventually the consumer becomes "educated" and I will use that word loosely.  Starts to question why they are paying the same amount for less.  Decides that they can get a lower quality for a lower price or a higher quality for the same price.  In turn deciding that there money is better spent with the "little guy" who takes pride in their work and will offer a better product at the same price as the big guys. 

 

Now if Trinity wanted to really take over, they have the resources to strangle the market to the point it hurts the little guy.  This last statement only applies to the uneducated consumer.

 

As soon as someone can tell me why Trinity charges $450 to MX port a Cheetah jug, give me a call.  I would love to hear that explanation.  Robbery seems to fit the bill there, it's easy to rob those that don't know better.

 

If you are even trying to compare anything about Trinity to Patriot, that's just a plain insult.  Trinity is an overadvertising, name recognizing, magazine patronizing, overcharging company that just tries to put stuff out as fast as the money can possibly be spent with them.  Trinity has the market pretty much cornered with the Cheetah jug, which is a shame.  Thanfully for them at least, a bone stock Cheetah pretty much flies, so noone realizes their $450 they spent on porting wasn't really even nessesary.  I have held in my hand two examples of their "$450" MX port which was sad to say the least.  It looked like nothing was ever even done to them.

 

Rockepig on here can chime in, he is the only part of Trinity that I feel is even worth respecting anymore.

382933[/snapback]

 

 

well said bro

[Cotton eyed Joe]

It smells like sex in here.

[locogato11283]

It smells like sex in here.

382971[/snapback]

huh

[broke]

It smells like sex in here.

382971[/snapback]

[SANDSTAR]

Trinity became  a product of corporate America.  Just when things are good and business is going well, management thinks they can make it better.  Cut cost by hiring under trained labor, cutting corners where ever possible, micro manage everything(even the parts that don't need it), and keep the increased profits for themselves instead of passing them on to the consumer.  Eventually the consumer becomes "educated" and I will use that word loosely.  Starts to question why they are paying the same amount for less.  Decides that they can get a lower quality for a lower price or a higher quality for the same price.  In turn deciding that there money is better spent with the "little guy" who takes pride in their work and will offer a better product at the same price as the big guys. 

 

Now if Trinity wanted to really take over, they have the resources to strangle the market to the point it hurts the little guy.  This last statement only applies to the uneducated consumer.

 

As soon as someone can tell me why Trinity charges $450 to MX port a Cheetah jug, give me a call.  I would love to hear that explanation.  Robbery seems to fit the bill there, it's easy to rob those that don't know better.

 

If you are even trying to compare anything about Trinity to Patriot, that's just a plain insult.  Trinity is an overadvertising, name recognizing, magazine patronizing, overcharging company that just tries to put stuff out as fast as the money can possibly be spent with them.  Trinity has the market pretty much cornered with the Cheetah jug, which is a shame.  Thanfully for them at least, a bone stock Cheetah pretty much flies, so noone realizes their $450 they spent on porting wasn't really even nessesary.  I have held in my hand two examples of their "$450" MX port which was sad to say the least.  It looked like nothing was ever even done to them.

 

Rockepig on here can chime in, he is the only part of Trinity that I feel is even worth respecting anymore.

382933[/snapback]

 

I put all builders in the same catagory. Some are absolutly better than others, but they do things for the money. Nothing wrong with that, but it is very foolish to expect that YOUR bike was ported,built or cared for by the guy that started the busness. There comes a point that hired help factors in as the workload increases. Quality starts to decrease. I refer to Trinity because I have done busness with them and have been disapointed.

 

I'll go along with the conventional wisdom in here that Patriot is reputable.

 

But if you are gonna jump on Trinity about a usless port job, be consistant and join me in saying that decking the bottom of them makes even less sense.

[broke]

All I know is that when I send my jugs to Patriot, Dan receives them, Dan ports them, Dan sends them back, Dan answers the phone when I call and Dan returns my emails, NOONE ELSE.

 

As far as a useless port, I have seen it from Trinity. As far as decking the cylinders, I have not seen that in my hands.

 

I actually have two sets of jugs sitting next to me, one by Patriot, one by another "reputable" builder also. The reputable builder even refered to Dans port and head work as nice work. One someone else in the same field compliments your work, it's something to be proud of.

[Cotton eyed Joe]

huh

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Nothin.

[SANDSTAR]

All I know is that when I send my jugs to Patriot, Dan receives them, Dan ports   them, Dan sends them back, Dan answers the phone when I call and Dan returns my emails, NOONE ELSE.

 

As far as a useless port, I have seen it from Trinity.  As far as decking the cylinders, I have not seen that in my hands.

 

I actually have two sets of jugs sitting next to me, one by Patriot, one by another "reputable" builder also.  The reputable builder even refered to Dans port and head work as nice work.  One someone else in the same field compliments your work, it's something to be proud of.

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I don't doubt Dan's abilitys regarding porting. Hired help is another story. If Dan has figured out a way to port, mill, fabricate,and experiment as well as run a busness and website and keep the lights on all by himself, he truly deserves credit. I really have a hard time believing it, because I have done a few of the above mentioned things. They take alot of time if you are doing it right. ALOT.

If he is a one man band, HATS OFF.

 

I do doubt the logic of grinding off the bottom of a pricy set of jugs in order for someone to ride trails with. I am sure people will buy them. If the are happy, great.

[broke]

All I'm saying as far as big vs. small builders is who does the work. When you send them to Trinity, do you think Harry ports them; the odds are not too good. But send them to Patriot and Dan does the porting, send them to Passion and I'll put money on the fact Jim does the porting, I can go on. I guess I just have issues with the employee base at Trinity. Rocketpig, who I think is named Brock, has even admitted to there being issues at Trinity.

 

Back to the cylinders. I don't get how something that's theoretical to you (decking Cubs) has already been deemed in you mind, ludicrous. I guess just the idea of reducing port timing to you, is counterproductive. Maybe it is, but if they say it can be done, I will have to go along with them until they or someone else proves it to not work. I don't know what you want to call it, but they have set precedence here as knowing more than the commoner about porting and what will and will not work.

[eehsnab2]

All I know is that when I send my jugs to Patriot, Dan receives them, Dan ports  them, Dan sends them back, Dan answers the phone when I call and Dan returns my emails, NOONE ELSE.

 

As far as a useless port, I have seen it from Trinity.  As far as decking the cylinders, I have not seen that in my hands.

 

I actually have two sets of jugs sitting next to me, one by Patriot, one by another "reputable" builder also.  The reputable builder even refered to Dans port and head work as nice work.  One someone else in the same field compliments your work, it's something to be proud of.

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I had the same experience with Dan... he went beyond what a builder has to do. When all my stuff came back it had a bunch of little extras that he didnt need to do, he just did them. Things like an extra gasket kit, pre-jetted the carbs with different needles, extra love in the paint for my cases, allen head screws in the float bowls, gas lines,shaved my flywheel, and on and on and on. Just the little things that seperate him from the rest. Things like that and the fact you can reach him without much trouble will bring my business back to him everytime. Without a doubt he'll get my next motor that I build.

[SANDSTAR]

 

Back to the cylinders.  I don't get how something that's theoretical to you (decking Cubs) has already been deemed in you mind, ludicrous.  I guess just the idea of reducing port timing to you, is counterproductive.

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Read my previous posts for the reasons why I question the mod.

 

I guess because of the duner in me, and from my love of the Banshee, and from my understanding of what a Banshee is, and is not, slowing it down seems a little "ludicrous". After you are all finished with such an engine mod, you now need to address the chassis/suspention to make the banshee a trail king. A 450 still will be hard to beat on technical trails.

 

I'm sure what he is doing can be done, I just question the way he is going about it. After all, this IS a place to examine such a mod and air out concerns and discuss different points of view.

 

Go ahead and buy one. Let us know how it runs.

[broke]

I agree that a 450 will be hard to beat on a trial with a Banshee. Does that mean just because a Subaru WRX will never hang with a Viper on the rode, you should never try to make the WRX faster? I understand what you are saying, but why question somebody that is trying something, not you. What benefit does ths have to you if it fails, you will only make yourself look like a fool if it succeeds. Not all Banshee's live in the dunes, not all banshees have at least 200 degrees of exhust dur., not all Banshees are pod filtered, big carbed and top end piped. Some of us actually ride these things in places that would have you shaking your head.

 

All I have to say is, if you think decking a set of Cub cylinders is strange, you don't even want to see what's parked in my frame.

[Meat_Head]

By decking the Cubs customers have the benefit of a modern port layout,without having to shell 2000+ $$ for a Cheetah,T-REX,Twister etc. top end.If you dont have the financial means to buy yourself one of those top ends then I guess modding the Cubs to make them a lil more trail friendly is a decent alternative.

[SANDSTAR]

Cool. To each their own.

 

Make a WRX hang with a Viper? That is my point. You would spend more on the WRX than what it would cost just to buy the Viper in the first place.

 

Will the completed set up and mod cost less than $2000?

 

If it is being offered complete for $800, right on.

 

I bet if you put the same money(starting with a stock bike) that the complete decked-cub setup costs into a good mx port and and suspention/chassis upgrade,

you would come out on top with the latter.

 

If you have a crazy motor in your frame, thats great. I'm all for it. But I'm sure you know exactly what you have and how it works. Alot of people on here aren't even aware of how a two stroke operates. But if they can't ride and think they can drop this engine in and spoon-feed rocks and mud to 450s all day long, they have another thing coming.

[broke]

I guess we are looking at the same thing from different angles. You are like "why", were I am "why not".

 

Not all of us can afford a Viper, a modified WRX hanging with a Viper to me is cooler than the Viper itself. Not all of us can afford 450. Close to $8000 will build a hell of a Banshee when you can pick them up used for $1500. Now throw a "detuned" top end on for $1300 and you have a $2800 monster than is going to have the guy on the 450 scratching his head wondering why his dealer told him that he needs to spend $8000 on a new quad beacuse a $1500 Banshee is an Obsolete dinosaur.

 

I guess I just like to be different and go against the grain, conforming to me is the same as selling out. A +4 12port RZ to me was worth the time and expense to build becasue it was like nothing elseI have seen on this site.

 

And yes, I do understand how a two stroke works, but only to a limited point. That's why when a builder that has forgotten more about motors than I will ever know says he can do it, I will go along with it until something or someone proves otherwise.

 

When we tell people at work that two single phase transformers are going to give them three phase power, the ones that argue are the ones that will never understand the answer in the first place.