Cotton eyed Joe Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Awesome project. I"ve never really dared turbo anything because I know with the luck I have, I'd get a critical melt down first time out of the box and end up setting myself on fire. Got anything to turbo a CBR600f4i? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeechozen1 Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Natty Ice and Jager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris642 Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 (edited) I"ve never really dared turbo anything because I know with the luck I have, I'd get a critical melt down first time out of the box and end up setting myself on fire. 370023[/snapback] haha, either that or a piston to the chest. That looks like an awesome project, keep us posted!! Edited May 16, 2005 by chris642 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oilsmoke Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 (edited) Whitey Here is a few questions. What type of Port layout will you use with a Forced induction? Is some form of expansion chamber even needed to scavenge the exhaust? was that ecu a kit and who make it? It look like a Fun Project . Edited May 16, 2005 by Oilsmoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogart Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 I turbocharge things as a hobby so I can pick up good turbos for cheap. All of the turbos are in good working order and they are all internally gated. Except for the last one but I have an extra 38mm wategate so thats not a problem. Piping costs next to nothing since I have all the material for flanges and pipework I got from scrap from doing other cars. There actually isn't much piping involved at all with this project. The intake maniold will be made of 1.5inch pipe, the intake pleum will be a 3.5inch pipe, downpipe will consist of one 90 degree 2.5 inch bend out the back and one 2.5inch 180degree bend for the air filter. Trust me this isn't my first turbo project. On a budget of $1500 we built a 4 door pig of a Ford Taurus that ran a 12.5@117mph, my Acura Integra with a stock motor ran a 12.9@113mph and I've done a countless number of Civics, so I have a pretty good idea of what pipework for a turbokit costs. I added I've added $200 to the budget for small stuff but besides wireloom and the wire, there absolutely no way its going to be 300% more than $1200 unless I plate everything in gold and hire some strippers to put it together. lol, that first turbo if off a 1.0 liter 3cylinder Geo Metro, I wouldn't put it on anything bigger than a 5hp briggs and straton. The third one from the left is a T3 .42/.48 and the biggest one is a T3/T4 57trim .60/.63. The T3/T4 is probably going to be too big but I have it in case I want to try it out. Remember, a 2-stroke pulses twice the amount of a 4stroke and has tons more mass flow rate to spin a turbo than a 4-stroke. Possibly. But I'd need to buy pipes and jets which alone are $600 so that leaves me only $600 to put in the motor. My Buddy is building a Cheetah motor and he's up around $2000. I'm not a machinst who can build bigass motors, I'm just a regular asshole who knows a little something about turbos. With a turbo I have tons of flexibility in my powerband. And also this has been a project I've wanted to do for a long long time. I've always wanted to hear a turbo Banshee and I just want to feel what a 2-stroke powerband feels like under boost. My buddy's cheetah motor is going to be done on soon, they'll probably be about the same HP but two totally different powerbands which I think is just going to be badass to see the difference. I didn't post this on here to start shit or anything, I just thought you guys would like to see this project and what it takes to put one together. I'm sure its not going to be perfect out of the box but thats what a project is, getting it to be perfect. This is my first attempt at a turbo 2-stroke so its a learning experience for me, but I'll never learn anything if I don't at least atempt it. 370018[/snapback] i know what your saying about the 2 stroke and 4 stroke.i dont know much about banshees but i do know turbocharges.the geo one might work.but i would like to see you sppl that t2 ot the 57 trim i dont hink its gonna really happen.the ideal one to use would be like i stated a seca 650 turbo.with thoise bigger turbos compressor surge is gonna happen.you will have alot of turbo lag also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Posted May 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Awesome project. I"ve never really dared turbo anything because I know with the luck I have, I'd get a critical melt down first time out of the box and end up setting myself on fire. Got anything to turbo a CBR600f4i? As long as you don't go crazy with the boost level, keep the timing retarted slightly and have a nice rich 11.8 to 12.1 AFR, it'll be safe. And an F4i would be a cakewalk to turbo, it already has an oiling system Whitey Here is a few questions.What type of Port layout will you use with a Forced induction? Is some form of expansion chamber even needed to scavenge the exhaust? was that ecu a kit and who make it? It look like a Fun Project . I'm using the stock ports for now, never looked into porting yet. when the time comes I'll worry about it. Yes an expansion chamber is critical to a 2-stroke so you still need to use one. I made the ECU myself its a universal one to learn more about it go to http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html i know what your saying about the 2 stroke and 4 stroke.i dont know much about banshees but i do know turbocharges.the geo one might work.but i would like to see you sppl that t2 ot the 57 trim i dont hink its gonna really happen.the ideal one to use would be like i stated a seca 650 turbo.with thoise bigger turbos compressor surge is gonna happen.you will have alot of turbo lag also the Geo Metro turbo would choke out the motor its way too small, I know that for a fact. I really don't understand what your saying about compressor surge being caused by bigger turbos, all turbos get compressor surge without a blow off valve no matter what size the turbo. Compressor surge is caused by the backspin of the turbo after the throttle plate is closed. Simply run a bypass valve or a blow off valve and the problem is solved. turbo lag is also not an issue at all. With the v32 turbo I'm pretty convinced that lag is going to be relatively low. I also always tend to oversize turbos as well. I like the efficiencies of the higher CFM turbos anyways. Whats the specs of the Seca turbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton eyed Joe Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 As long as you don't go crazy with the boost level, keep the timing retarted slightly and have a nice rich 11.8 to 12.1 AFR, it'll be safe. And an F4i would be a cakewalk to turbo, it already has an oiling system 370052[/snapback] After looking at the box of parts, and reading your posts I'm beginning to think you know a thing or two about this I know www.mrturbo.com can turbo anything, but for 5 grand, then I get to put it all together. As far as a "universal" ECM/ECU how does that work? Is it home grown? As far as my electrical engineering skills go, I can put a battery in a smoke alarm, and I can get my MP3 player to work about 80% of the time. I understand a few of the fundamentals of running a turbo, is there a site somewhere I can read up in depth on this stuff? I know what you are talking about with the 11.8 to 12.1, but does running that "rich" affect performance or is it still in a good perfomance zone, but also a safer zone where a runaway turbo condition can't happen? I know with my current ECM 14.1 is the AFR, so is there a chance that the stock injectors wouldn't be able to keep up under boost conditions?? I have TONS of questions, so if you do have a site or some sort of literature I could pick up let me know. This shit facinates me. Even if I never turbo anything, I'm a fan of forced induction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin' Fast Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 has anyone ever tried to do a twin turbo on a banshee? maybe you could just use two slightly smaller turbo's but then you could still have dual exhaust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Posted May 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 After looking at the box of parts, and reading your posts I'm beginning to think you know a thing or two about this I know www.mrturbo.com can turbo anything, but for 5 grand, then I get to put it all together. As far as a "universal" ECM/ECU how does that work? Is it home grown? As far as my electrical engineering skills go, I can put a battery in a smoke alarm, and I can get my MP3 player to work about 80% of the time. I understand a few of the fundamentals of running a turbo, is there a site somewhere I can read up in depth on this stuff? I know what you are talking about with the 11.8 to 12.1, but does running that "rich" affect performance or is it still in a good perfomance zone, but also a safer zone where a runaway turbo condition can't happen? I know with my current ECM 14.1 is the AFR, so is there a chance that the stock injectors wouldn't be able to keep up under boost conditions?? I have TONS of questions, so if you do have a site or some sort of literature I could pick up let me know. This shit facinates me. Even if I never turbo anything, I'm a fan of forced induction. I've seen that one turbo kit for Banshee's down at East Coast ATV. They said it was fast as hell but a pain in the ass. Thats becuase they had shitty fuel management. The heart and soul of a good and reliable is all in the fuel management. Turbos don't gernade motors, people gernade motors. For each psi of boost you need the right amount of fuel for it. In an all motor application you want an AFR of around 14.1, but with a turbo you want something alot richer around 12.1 to cool the combustion chambers so you don't melt pistons. As far as how the ECU works, it runs off a motorola processor, 2.5 bar MAP sensor, TPS sensor, air intake temp sensor, and coolant temp sensor. Thats all you need than you tune the motor to the volumetric efficiencies with an 8x8 fuel grid through a labtop attached to it. Just datalog the runs and make appropriate changes. Its actually not too difficult, just takes a few gernaded motors to get the hang of it Also you probably need to upgrade your injectors. The majority of stock injectors run at about an 80% duty cycle so boost maxes them out pretty fast. I'm going to run 240cc injectors on the Banshee since they're going to be good up to 110hp. Actually I'm a moderator over at www.homemadeturbo.com which is a good site to learn about turbos, its mostly Hondas but hopefully there will eventually be a variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oilsmoke Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Whitey Welcome to the HQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Damn....get off the forum and get that thing together already...will ya? The sound of a wound out 'shee already gives me a stiffy....a turbo'd shee might make me cream me drawers... You sure as hell sound like you know what the hell you're talking about...hope this works out for you. Get some pics up and MOST definately some sound bites out there....this is gonna sound fucking sick!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogart Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 As long as you don't go crazy with the boost level, keep the timing retarted slightly and have a nice rich 11.8 to 12.1 AFR, it'll be safe. And an F4i would be a cakewalk to turbo, it already has an oiling system I'm using the stock ports for now, never looked into porting yet. when the time comes I'll worry about it. Yes an expansion chamber is critical to a 2-stroke so you still need to use one. I made the ECU myself its a universal one to learn more about it go to http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html the Geo Metro turbo would choke out the motor its way too small, I know that for a fact. I really don't understand what your saying about compressor surge being caused by bigger turbos, all turbos get compressor surge without a blow off valve no matter what size the turbo. Compressor surge is caused by the backspin of the turbo after the throttle plate is closed. Simply run a bypass valve or a blow off valve and the problem is solved. turbo lag is also not an issue at all. With the v32 turbo I'm pretty convinced that lag is going to be relatively low. I also always tend to oversize turbos as well. I like the efficiencies of the higher CFM turbos anyways. Whats the specs of the Seca turbo? 370052[/snapback] i will try to find a comressor map for it might be hard.also will try to find compressor maps for the others.i dont see how the geo would choke it out.the only thing i wonder is what reeds are gonna be used.or do they hold up to the heat.ive been wantong to turbo for awhile but never got around to it.my plan was to use the seca turbo i heard from a good source that was a ideal turbo to use.let me serch for those maps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshv5.0 Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 i think its fuckin tight. i wanna see some progress pics... 370020[/snapback] agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decon Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 man this project is real real interesting. even the fuel injection sounds cool for a banshee. what progress have you made so far on the fuel injection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Posted May 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 (edited) i will try to find a comressor map for it might be hard.also will try to find compressor maps for the others.i dont see how the geo would choke it out.the only thing i wonder is what reeds are gonna be used.or do they hold up to the heat.ive been wantong to turbo for awhile but never got around to it.my plan was to use the seca turbo i heard from a good source that was a ideal turbo to use.let me serch for those maps If your IAT's are high enough to melt the reeds than you've got bigger problems to worry about. The Geo turbo's turbine A/R is way to small for the amount of exhaust a Banshee puts out. It would be like trying to breathe through a straw. Also compressors maps are a good thing to get a general idea about a turbo but they are no way a good way to pick a turbo. Most great turbo sizing is done by trial and error. If you think the seca turbo is the best one to use than go ahead and use one. I've got my turbo choices and they are the one's I'm going to use, I've been planning this out for a while. man this project is real real interesting. even the fuel injection sounds cool for a banshee. what progress have you made so far on the fuel injection? 370217[/snapback] Progress is slow becuase I'm out of welding gas. Airgas closes at 4:30 and I work till 5:30 so its tough to get the supplies to start building. If this week I get done the intake manifold, fuel rail and draw up a wiring diagram I'll consider it good progress. Its tough to make progress when you don't have supplies. Edited May 17, 2005 by Whitey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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