lighten flywheel in trails?

[BdBanshee]

I disagree,anytime you add or remove weight from the fly wheel your altering the rotating mass.This will directly affect the engines powerband by way of a softer hit or harder hit.

 

The more mass,the longer it will take to reach powerband. Also providing tractable power on loose surfaces

The less mass, shorter rev up time needed to reach powerband.Ideal for high traction conditions.

 

The banshee crank is no different than a conventional counterweight/counterbalance single.There just balanced different ways.A banshee uses another crank journal offset 180 degrees.A single uses a counterweight/counterbalance to balance itself.

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I guess we will have to agree, to disagree then. How many other quads have a cylinder firing twice per revolution? Two power strokes every 360 degree revolution, not firing once every 720 degrees like a 4 stroke.

[BansheeBob]

I guess we will have to agree, to disagree then. How many other quads have a cylinder firing twice per revolution? Two power strokes every 360 degree revolution, not firing once every 720 degrees like a 4 stroke.

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I would agree with you that being a twin will absolutely reduce the flywheel effect. Still, for trail riding "tractable linear power" is most desireable and lightening a flywheel will have and adverse effect on tractable power regardless of the number of cylinders. Yes it will more pronounced on a single as opposed to a twin. To improve tractable power on a 2 stroke the flywheel needs to be made heavier, there can be no arguement on that, it is a law of physics.

Edited May 1, 2005 by BansheeBob

[Brian060]

You sure abot that My experience has been that when setting up a 2 stroke for trail riding you want to put a heavier flywheel on it. An example is for

Edited May 1, 2005 by Brian060

[boonman]

I would agree with you that being a twin will absolutely reduce the flywheel effect. Still, for trail riding "tractable linear power" is most desireable and lightening a flywheel will have and adverse effect on tractable power regardless of the number of cylinders. Yes it will more pronounced on a single as opposed to a twin. To improve tractable power on a 2 stroke the flywheel needs to be made heavier, there can be no arguement on that, it is a law of physics.

 

 

Stop trying to apply physics to lightening the flywheel of a banshee. Everyone that tries to pitch this "theory" has NEVER tried a lightened flywheel on their bike. I am willing to to bet that this is the case here. Trouble here is, you can'tthink about this one too much. There is a very valid argument on this. In the tractability department. You see, the throttle response gained from this mod, heavily outweighs ANY negative effects in which a theory of physics applies in this case. If you are having traction problems in the dirt, run a shorter swingarm. This will solve the traction problem. Tried and true. Anyone that runs a shorter swinger will attest to this. Also, anyone that runs a lightened flywheel, (Remember, I said anyone who actually runs one on their bike) aside from a few select few individuals, will attest to the fact that the gained throttle response, from the lightened flywheel is much more desireable than a stock weighted one. I am stressing ot think of ANYONE who has run a heavier flywheel on their bike. Because if your physics theories were in any way applicable to this, than I would think every XC/MX/hare scramble rider in the country would be running a heavier flywheel. But, they simply are not. I have run the exact same race on a stock weight flywheel, and I have run it on a lightened flywheel. I can honestly say, that the lightened flywheel gave me less fatigue, and faster lap times in the hare scrambles in which I have run. I have tested it. Being able to utilize more of the bike's power, and opening up the powerband is a very heartwarming feeling. And it brings a smile to my face every time I crack the throttle. I can recall numerous times that people have taken my bike for a spin. They always come back smiling about the throttle response. I would put my bike's throttle response up against a single carbed bike. Quite a few people at the last Coal Fest rode my bike and were amazed at the response and rideability of my bike. As a matter of fact, I cam home with a couple flywheels to lighten for folks. I suggest that any disbeliever try it. You have nothing to lose. Forget the physics nonsense, and go riding.

[BansheeBob]

Stop trying to apply physics to lightening the flywheel of a banshee.

Edited May 2, 2005 by BansheeBob

[boonman]

Bob, you are still comparing single cylinder bikes. This is a different animal. i have ridden my bike on numerous scrambles, and other races. A lightened flywheel utilizes the banshee's engine much better than a stock flywheel. The only thing that could help you on a rocky rutted wet hillclimb would be a four stroke. Which puts you in a different ball game all together. I still stand by a lightened flywheel in ay condition. I have tested it time and time again. Flywheels are very simple to change on the fly, and I have done just that. With a 2-1 pipe, (which I have run, personally, on my bike) and a lightened flywheel, the banshee is a great woods bike. The pipe puts the powerband where you want it, and the lightened flywheel lets you tap the power on demand. If your worried about the rocky uphill, ride it a gear high. Taller gearing also helps. As mentioned previously, a shorter swingarm helps out immensely in the traction department. Have a great ime at Dumont. I aspire to make it out to that coast, at least someday...

[fixitrod]

Here's my take after riding with one.

 

I disagree,anytime you add or remove weight from the fly wheel your altering the rotating mass.This will directly affect the engines powerband by way of a softer hit or harder hit.

 

You are correct. But, when you already have to much pwr down low. Right now I would have to say the banshee flywheel is overweighted for most riding. When the banshee comes on sooner it's less likely to break traction because the pwr hit isn't as hard. With the heavy flywheel it takes to long to spin up. Then when it does it's nuts. With a lighter flywheel the pwr comes on now and is more controllable to the rider.

 

The more mass,the longer it will take to reach powerband. Also providing tractable power on loose surfaces

The less mass, shorter rev up time needed to reach powerband.Ideal for high traction conditions.

 

We said the same thing... it just effects the banshee differently than the example for traction you provided. I know it doesn't sound right, but on the banshee it works. On a trials bike... heavy brass is the way to go.

 

The banshee crank is no different than a conventional counterweight/counterbalance single.There just balanced different ways.A banshee uses another crank journal offset 180 degrees.A single uses a counterweight/counterbalance to balance itself.

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The banshee fires twice in one revolution. The crank isn't different but the pwr delivery sure is. The weight of the flywheel becomes useless sooner on a banshee (opening a new can of worms).

 

A great thing about the lightened flywheel in the woods is the pwr is right now and doesn't show up so unexpectedly. Not have to hammer on the gas waiting for it to go as the four strokes roll past you. You can run into the corners faster and brake later. A lot of races are won by the person who brakes the best

 

*** NOTE ***

The only think negative about the lightened flywheel can be drag racing in sand at take off for a rider over 200 to 210 lbs. When you drop the clutch that weight can help get you out of the hole. After the wheels are spinning and the quads rolling.. the lighter wheel can benefit during shifting because it spins up faster... again, it's give and take.

[BansheeBob]

Bob, you are still comparing single cylinder bikes.  This is a different animal.  i have ridden my bike on numerous scrambles, and other races.  A lightened flywheel utilizes the banshee's engine much better than a stock flywheel.  The only thing that could help you on a rocky rutted wet hillclimb would be a four stroke.  Which puts you in a different ball game all together.  I still stand by a lightened flywheel in ay condition.  I have tested it time and time again.  Flywheels are very simple to change on the fly, and I have done just that.  With a 2-1 pipe, (which I have run, personally, on my bike) and a lightened flywheel, the banshee is a great woods bike.  The pipe puts the powerband where you want it, and the lightened flywheel lets you tap the power on demand.  If your worried about the rocky uphill, ride it a gear high.  Taller gearing also helps.  As mentioned previously, a shorter swingarm helps out immensely in the traction department.    Have a great ime at Dumont.  I aspire to make it out to that coast, at least someday... 

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Okay, I give up ..... I hear you about the only thing that could help you on a rocky rutted wet hillclimb would be a four stroke In my case when I head to the trails I take my King Quad and when I see that kind of hill I throw it into low range and lock the differentials

 

Not sure where you are from, but the Banshee was made for big tall sand dunes and there is just nothing like like it

[boonman]

I am from around Buffalo NY. I have been to Silver Lake MI before. It's alot of fun, but it seems that the West coast dunes would be alot more to experience as far as sand. And the 4x4 ATV's are ALOT of fun when it is wet/muddy out, as you mention. Boggin on a big 4x4 wheeler is just the ticket. Although, going out on the shee and blastin a few holes is fun too. Although much more messier. I had to hose off many times after races because it was horrible. And I think the machine weighs about 50 more lbs. afterward.

Enjoy the trip!!

[lonestar]

I guess we will have to agree, to disagree then. How many other quads have a cylinder firing twice per revolution? Two power strokes every 360 degree revolution, not firing once every 720 degrees like a 4 stroke.

362889[/snapback]

LISTEN TO RON AND HAVE HIM LIGHTEN IT. YOU WON'T REGRET IT.

[98bonerSTOCKshee]

been doing some reading on getting my flywheel lightened, but before I do, I wanted to know if it would be a good idea for trails/hairscrambles, and also if it makes it easier to stay in your band?

361970[/snapback]

 

hell yeah I got mine lightened and love it!!

Almost don't even notice the famous banshee bog on the lowside anymore. I ride alot of trails with mud and anything else mother nature throws at me... Throttle is crisper feelin.

I paid $65 to my machinist...

[.]

alright, alright.....I gotta put my 2 cents in here. I havent rode a lightened flywheel (yet), but I am still running my stock swingarm. I have a -1 going on when I get back from Hatfield-McCoy, dont want to do all this stuff and not have a chance to get used to it......anyway.

 

Anyone that says a banshee doesnt have low end power is completely full of shit. Anyone that says it doesnt have any out of powerband torque....is full of shit as well.

 

You need to build your bike for your type of riding. My LRD's have so much low end power and torque, its ridiculous compared to other pipes. When I adjust the pipes for the powerband to come on early, the tires just want to spin and spin, but when I adjust it for top end, it smooths the powerband out a little wider in the rpm band, and gets rid of some of my wheel spin down low (adjusting the pipe for the most part adjusts where the powerband comes on). With it adjusted for low rpm the powerband was just coming on to quickly, much like a lightened flywheel would bring my rpm's up to fast, and all it did was make my tires spin and I wouldnt go anywhere faster.

 

Believe it or not, it puts just as big a smile on my face just playing around in the woods, lugging my engine down and climbing through boulder fields we have around here, and doing stuff like that. I grin ear to ear doing that as much as I do when that powerband comes on.

 

It's all how you build your shee. And especially heading to Hatfield-McCoy where you hope 5.5 gallons is enough fuel, last thing you want is your engine to rev easier every time you hit the throttle.

 

The only way I think I'd run a lightened flywheel is after I get my negative swingarm on. I will probably try it and see how much quicker my throttle response is, and see how the rideability is down in low rpm's (I'm talking just off idle).

 

Until then, its all speculation......my main thing is it just urks me when people say a banshee has no low end power.....when they have t-5's or something that is made to ride in the powerband. If you wanna ride out of the powerband....go buy a pipe that was built for that. (and all those 2in1 pipes do is make the powerband come on faster, they dont really improve the out of powerband power, they just get rid of it)

[boonman]

Abyss, in the end of your statement, you say that the 2-1 pipe makes the powerband come on faster, I don't thinkg that is necessarily true. It makes it come on earlier, and sign off earlier. Basically, making the power curve, when viewed on a graph, move about 2-3,000 RPM to the left. And I think that going with a -2 swinger, and a lightened flywheel would make you a happy camper. or rider. Either or. Let me know when you get your swinger on. I'll get you a flywheel to test.

[.]

thats what I meant by coming on faster, from off idle, your hitting the powerband real quick. Which can be a bad thing if your not getting enough traction. When I adjust my pipes to low end, they basically act like a 2 in 1, but still pull a lot longer in the rpm's and dont sign off as early.

 

Where my pipes really shine is off idle up to where the powerband starts coming in. They have a really smooth hit thats spread out pretty good. What this lets you do is adjust your pipes to where for the most part in the woods your just sitting out of powerband and with a little blip of the throttle it starts transitioning. There is a ton of torque right in that bandwidth.

 

That right there is where I feel a lightened flywheel will help the most for me, sometimes if you drop down a little to low, it takes the engine a second longer to come up through that powerband transition. There is a ton of torque there to compensate for it still, just lags a little bit. When I get my ported cylinders on there too I'm sure that'll help some as well in these departments.

 

I'll make sure I hit you up after I get back from hatfield mccoy. It may be a good long time though before I need it if I decide to part my rolling chassis out instead and go with a 250R style rolling chassis from LRD or somewhere (like 5500)

[bansheegoof]

a heavier flywheel keeps thr r's up when letting off the throttle.w/a lightened flywheel you get the r's up faster but you need the flywheel momemtem to keep the r's up.some mx rinders add weight to the flywheels.is this making since. it was just in a recent dirtwheels.lightened is good for drags.