EASTER

[joshdagreat56]

When Christmas, Easter, or a Hell for eternal torture find their way into the bible, I'll be there doin' it too.

You can't honestly think that I would change my entire life to avoid tossing some cheap gifts to a bunch of unappreciative folks who don't want to give gifts either.

And salvation is God's decision not mine. But The bible is chock full of simple instructions that anyone can understand that should help you see if your own behaviour is approved by God or not. Hypocrisy should be one of the easy ones.

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Wow I'm very impressed holyman you also have done your research on hell as well. I must second holyman in saying its none of our responsibility to judge and thank god for that I would have destroyed the iraellites like 50 times for there disobiedience so its just a good thing we don't do the judging.

 

Now refering to a comment made ealier stating that holyman only focuses on the death of jesus instead of his birth. I just wanted to say the bible all the way through only has two accounts of a birthday mentioned. Both of which someone died. Never did jesus say to celebrate his birthday , however he did say to celebrate the memorial of his death ( passover ) His words were ''to keep doing this in remeberance of me.'' Niot trying to defend holyman or condone your beliefs or anyones elses here just stating what I have learned in my study of the bible.

[rjvoight]

Obviously salvation is not a "I'm on home plate you can't tag me out" kind of a thing. It is a life long mission that is opposed by almost everyone especially those who claim to be Christians. But I plan to endure as long as my weak body can take it. Because only those who endure to the end will be saved!

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Holy, that sounds like you are saying Christ dieing on the cross for our sins and and his ressurrection is not sufficiant for those who call on his name for salvation. It sounds like you are saying it is good and all to believe in Jesus but we as Christians need to do something above and beyond to make it into heaven.

 

We as humans can not do anything to get into heaven. We can not work hard enough. Even as Christians, we are going to fail, we are going to sin and the wages of sin is death. The only way to pay that debt is to accept what Christ did for us on the cross and that he rose again. That is it. So I am saying that once a person admits they are a sinner (just like the rest of us) asks Jesus to forgive them, and accepts him as the Lord of their life, then they are on Home Plate and can not be tagged out. No one can take salvation away from you.

 

Beyond salvation, what a person does with their life is important and we will all be accountable for what we do with the knowledge of Christ and salvation, but that is not what gets a person into heaven.

 

Ephesians 2:8-10 (personalized by putting the word "I" in where it says "you" and "we")

For by grace I have been saved, through faith, not of myself, it is the gift of God, not as a result of any work I have done so that I can not say I earned my way into heaven, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand, that I should walk in them.

I know you quoted scripture, but I need to crash for work tonight so I will look at it some more later.

 

This started as an Easter post that went to a Holiday post that has turned into somewhat of difference in opinion on "relgiion". It is good to discuss the what the Bible says about issues.

 

For those of you who have been following the thread and are curious about Jesus and Salvation, don't get frustrated with the debate and lose sight of the real issue. That issue is what Jesus Christ did for each and every person on this planet. He was born, lived a perfect life, died on the cross paying for our sins, rose from the grave defeating death and the devil,and calls out to you personally. Faith and acceptance of his forgiveness is all it takes. What you do with your life after accepting him is another issue that is between you and God.

 

PEACE-

RJV

[bigtreads]

For those of you who have been following the thread and are curious about Jesus and Salvation, don't get frustrated with the debate and lose sight of the real issue. That issue is what Jesus Christ did for each and every person on this planet. He was born, lived a perfect life, died on the cross paying for our sins, rose from the grave defeating death and the devil,and calls out to you personally. Faith and acceptance of his forgiveness is all it takes. What you do with your life after accepting him is another issue that is between you and God.

 

 

wow talk about nailing it. I could add to what you said but like alot in this thread it's just more to get hung up on.

 

Holyman - I belive God knows the true intentions of your heart. That said when I express joy and happiness with my family (teaching my kids to do the same) for all that Jesus did for us both in his birth and death/resurection at Christmas/Easter I cannot accept that he is not pleased . We will each have to answer for the stuff we do in the end. Just because some wackos way back when did bad things on those dates has no bearing on my celebration of Christ during christmas or easter. Im sure there has been enough bad things done on each date through out history to screw up every day if you want to take it that far. The past is the past I live for Jesus each day. I also belive God calls us to individual things that he might not call others to - one guys called to go to New Guinea as a missionary / another called to run a pizza joint - if that is what God is telling you to do you better darn well do it . So if you feel God calling you to not celebrate Christmas etc. the same applies.

 

after all I rambled refer back to what RJ said at the begining of my post

[rjvoight]

Now refering to a comment made ealier stating that holyman only focuses on the death of jesus instead of his birth.

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My point when I said that is the Death of Jesus is extremely important, but the fact that He rose from the dead is just as if not more important. Without Him rising from the dead the rest of our Faith is pointless. I am not claiming the Bible says anywhere to celebrate and party on the day He was born, the day he died, or the day he rose from the grave.

 

RJV

[Holyman]

So are you saying that as long as I accept Jesus as savior, I can do anything I want after that and still be saved?

[banshee04le]

So are you saying that as long as I accept Jesus as savior, I can do anything I want after that and still be saved? 

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As RJV cited:

Ephesians 2:8-10 (personalized by putting the word "I" in where it says "you" and "we")

For by grace I have been saved, through faith, not of myself, it is the gift of God, not as a result of any work I have done so that I can not say I earned my way into heaven, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand, that I should walk in them.

 

I believe that when you are saved, you truly FEEL God's existence. This feeling is very fleeting and you may never feel that close to God again while on this earth. That is where faith comes into play. I also believe that God's plan for his believers may not lead all in the "path of riteousness", but instead will lead some through the "valley of the shadow of death", for it is there where you will find those most in need. So, since you cannot earn your way into heaven because no one is perfect enough, but may be saved only by the grace of God, do you think God would keep you out of heaven if you bought your kids some Easter candy? I think the worst that would come of it is that your kids might feel more normal which would make them happier because I would bet that your views on Christmas and Easter are probably a source of embarrasment for them, within their peer group, unless you ARE Jewish. That would only help to explain it for me as I personally do not have

any anti-semetic views. I refuse to dis-respect anyones beliefs because I refuse to

enlighten myself on theology to the point of self-righteousness. I believe all people are worthy of God's love. I hope you do not feel that I am disrespecting your beliefs. As you said, discussion is a good thing.

[gixxer_sixxer]

So are you saying that as long as I accept Jesus as savior, I can do anything I want after that and still be saved? 

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Yes, if you truly accept the lord Jesus christ as your personal savior, then you are saved. There is no "ultimate sin" that would make Him stop loving you. Sin is sin in the eyes of God, be it selfishness or murder.

[Holyman]

I fully understand that you cannot earn your way into salvation. It is only God who can make that decision. However faith and works must be seen at the same time. rj said it himself... faith without works is dead.

When Jesus was asked how his followers would be identified he said... (Matthew 7:15-20) 15 "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep's covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].

This plainly indicates that IF there is no obvious difference between a follower of christ and everyone else, then there is really is no difference. Like it says, you pick figs from fig trees and you cannot get good things from a rotten tree.

It even goes on to say that even if someone cries out to him even in a crisis, he will not answer unless they are completely obedient to God and not just saying they are christian... 21 "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?' 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

Even beyond that, it is explained that a persons behaviour in all things DOES effect the prospects for salvation... (Matthew 12:36-37) 36 I tell YOU that every unprofitable saying that men speak, they will render an account concerning it on Judgment Day; 37 for by your words you will be declared righteous, and by your words you will be condemned."

 

So a persons actions are a direct result of what they are on the inside. If they are no different from the rest of the world, they are not Christian. In fact Jesus said that his followers would be nothing like the rest of the world. (John 15:18-19) 18 If the world hates YOU, YOU know that it has hated me before it hated YOU. 19 If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU.

 

So hopefully that explains it. I am not trying to blend in because blending in is not Jesus' purpose. I do not celebrate christmas or easter because these are based on things that are opposite of what Jesus stands for. I do not vote because Jesus literally ran from the chance to be a politician and I have no faith in any foolish human to provide me with an sort of lasting security. I do not believe in Hell because the entire concept is a demonic idea developed by greedy religious hypocrites to make uneducated people afraid of God who personifies love.

I, like Jesus, will never blend in to the world.

 

Yes, if you truly accept the lord Jesus christ as your personal savior, then you are saved.  There is no "ultimate sin" that would make Him stop loving you. Sin is sin in the eyes of God, be it selfishness or murder.

(Mark 3:28-29) 28 Truly I say to YOU that all things will be forgiven the sons of men, no matter what sins and blasphemies they blasphemously commit. 29 However, whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of everlasting sin.". . .

 

(Hebrews 10:26-29) 26 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. 28 Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. 29 Of how much more severe a punishment, do YOU think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt?

 

sooo... care to revise that?

[joshdagreat56]

Yes, if you truly accept the lord Jesus christ as your personal savior, then you are saved.  There is no "ultimate sin" that would make Him stop loving you. Sin is sin in the eyes of God, be it selfishness or murder.

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Just a few scriptures that may help enlighhten......

2 Thess. 1:9,

[joshdagreat56]

here is some research I did it might help....

Christmas and its orgin......

M

[joshdagreat56]

here is a little info on easter...

The Encyclop

[rjvoight]

So are you saying that as long as I accept Jesus as savior, I can do anything I want after that and still be saved? 

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John 10:7 Truly tryly I say to you I am the door of the sheep.

 

John 10:9 I am the door if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out of fine pastures.

 

John 10:10 The thief (Santan) comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they might have life and might have it abundantly.

 

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd and I know My own and My own know Me.

 

John 10::25 I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die.

 

John 10:28-30 I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has given tehm to Me is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.

 

Yes, I believe if you truly accept Christ with all of your heart and soul, you are heaven bound, even if you fall flat on your face in your life. Once you are a child of God, nothing you do, nothing anyone else does can take that away from you. If you chose to turn your back on God, the Holy Spirit will deal with you and you will never find peace until you come back around.

 

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

 

If a person comes to a point of religion, thinking to themselves, "so I say this prayer and accept this Jesus and then I got a free ticket to do whatever I want with no consequences" then they are not seeking forgiveness or to make Jesus the Lord of their life.

 

Corinthians 6:14-15 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

 

Holy....

"So am I a Christian???

I try as hard as I can to immitate Jesus every day.

Do I fail?

Each and every day.

Do I have faith in Jesus?

With every fiber of my being"!

 

If this means you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, you believe he died for you and rose again for you then...then no matter what mistakes you make in life, you are saved regardless of the work you do. But you will work because the Holy Spirit fills you and moves you to do so. It moves you to take part in threads like this and encourage people to exam their own beliefs.

 

 

 

RJV

[joshdagreat56]

John 10:7 Truly tryly I say to you I am the door of the sheep.

 

John 10:9 I am the door if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out of fine pastures.

 

John 10:10 The thief (Santan) comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they might have life and might have it abundantly.

 

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd and I know My own and My own know Me.

 

John 10::25 I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who  lives and believes in Me shall never die.

 

John 10:28-30  I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one  shall snatch them out of My hand.  My Father who has given tehm to Me is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.  I and the Father are one.

 

Yes, I believe if you truly accept Christ with all of your heart and soul, you are heaven bound, even if you fall flat on your face in your life.  Once you are a child of God, nothing you do, nothing anyone else does can take that away from you.  If you chose to turn your back on God, the Holy Spirit will  deal with you and you will never find peace until you come back around. 

 

John 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance  all that I said to you.

 

If a person comes to a point of religion, thinking to themselves, "so I say this prayer and accept this Jesus and then I got a free ticket to do whatever I want with no consequences" then they are not seeking forgiveness or to make Jesus the Lord of their life. 

 

Corinthians 6:14-15  For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.  What then? shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?  May it never be!

 

Holy.... 

"So am I a Christian???

I try as hard as I can to immitate Jesus every day.

Do I fail?

Each and every day.

Do I have faith in Jesus?

With every fiber of my being"!

 

If this means you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, you believe he died for you and rose again for you then...then no matter what mistakes you make in life, you are saved regardless of the work you do.  But you will work because the Holy Spirit fills you and moves you to do so.  It moves you to take part in threads like this and encourage people to exam their own beliefs. 

RJV

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Matt. 24:13,

[banshee04le]

Well holyman all I can say is that no where in the 10 commandments does it say

thou shalt not buy the kids Easter candy or thou shalt not buy thy loved ones

Christmas gifts or thou shalt not vote. Your interpretations in these matters

seem very convenient for you because as you said

I would change my entire life to avoid tossing some cheap gifts to a bunch of unappreciative folks who don't want to give gifts either.

Nice attitude. I'm sure there are other things that you do in your life that God would concider more of an abomination than putting a smile on your kids face with a Christmas gift or some Easter candy. Perhaps you are too fond of your banshee and spend too much time and energy and money on it, in God's eyes?

Yeah but banshee's are fun. Shopping for gifts sucks. Cheap gifts tossed to

unappreciative folks huh? Well put a little more thought into the gift...that's what

counts...a little something for the kids anyway. When you were a kid, did your parents

or gaurdians give you Christmas gifts or Easter candy? If so, are you damned for receiving the gifts? Are your parents damned for giving them?

[Holyman]

You misquoted me.

And as a refresher, do you know what the 10 commandments are?