rjvoight Posted March 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) I don't celebrate any pagan holidays. You need to have faith in the resurrection because if Jesus was not resurrected, then everything he said was crap and he was just another crazy guy who thought he was special. But this still doesn't explain why he HAD to come to the earth to die. People putting faith in Jesus on Christmas day or Easter is fine but it doesn't change the fact that these holidays are an abomination and offensive to god. There is a very good example of how god treats pagan holidays and those who celebrate them no matter what they call them. So these people were saved from imminant death in Egypt by gods direct intervention on their behalf but because they wanted to call a pagan party with the pagan symbol as it's centerpiece a party to God, he authorized the deaths of 3000 of them and an untold number who died from the plagues. Knowing that God always acts in justice, how could he put 3000 to death for offensive pagan rituals and then not act in justice for those who do the same thing now? 347140[/snapback] EXODUS 32 You are missing the point this time. Moses lead Israel out of captivity. One of the things the book of Exodus shows how weak we as humans really are. Isreal was saved over and over again yet they always found something to complain about. In fact Israel gets so bad that in Numbers 11:15 Moses tells God to just to "please kill me" because he has grown tired of caring for the people. Exodus 14:10 Israel complains to Moses that he lead them to be slaughtered at the Red Sea, God saves them. Then in Exodus 15-24 Israel complains again that they have no water and are going to die and and God told Moses to put a tree in the water which he did and it made the water sweet. (Just as Christ came to take away the bitterness and sins of man) Exodus 16:3 Israel complains to Moses that they are going to starve to death so God provides bread and quail (and they still get it wrong). Exodus 17:2 Israel complains of no water and Moses is told by God to strike the rock and water flowed. (Just as Christ was struck on the Cross and his blood flowed) Exodus 17:8 Israel is spared in battle by God. Exodus 19-23 Covers the Laws (Ten Commandments) Exodust24:12 Moses leaves the people of Israel and is on the Mountain with God for Fourty Days and fourty Nights. 24-31 tell us what took place on the Mountain with God during that time. Now, Chapter 32. Israel who has proven to be weak and lacking faith turn away from God again, saying in vs1 "Come make us a god who will go before us, as for this Moses, the man who brought us up from the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him". Aaron drops the ball and falls right in line making a golden calf. The calf had no conection to God at all. They did not make a golden calf and say, lets worship this so God will be pleased with us. In vs.7-10 God tells Moses the people have turned away after a short time and they are obstinate. He tells Moses he is going to destroy the Nation and start over through Moses. In vs11-14 Moses intercedes for Israel and turns away the wrath of God (As Jesus does today for us, he intercedes on our behalf even when we sin) In vs 21-25 Moses confronts Aaron for allwoing Israel to get out of control. Now, Vs 26 which is what you are refering to, Moses stood in gate of the camp and said, "Whoever is for the Lord, come to me!" (As Jesus does for us). And all the sons of Levi gathered together with him. 27 and he said to them, "Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, Every man of you put his sword upon his thigh and go back and forth from gate to gate in the camp and kill every man, his brother, and every man his neighbor. So the sons of Levi did as Moses instructed and about 3000 men of the people fell that day. The people were given a choice to accept God or perish. (Just like we have a choice to accept Christ or perish) Those who chose to ignore the call to God died in their sin. Vs 30-35 Moses intercedes again for us to God (As Jesus does for us today). It is not the same thing as it was back then. Israel continually doubted God so they created a different god and worshiped it, not the God of Israel. Christmas and Easter for the Christian are a time to worship and praise the God of Israel, not some pagan god or goddess. Genisis 3 is just one place where it explains why Jesus had to die and rise again for us. God talking to Santan in vs. 14-15 And the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle. And more than every beast of the field; on your belly shall you go And dust shall you eat all the days of your life; and I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed (Santan) and her seed (Christ) and He shall bruise you on the head (Christs victory over death and sin on the cross) and you shall bruise him on the heel. (Christ paying the penalty for our sins, dieing on the cross. It is only a bruise because he rose again). RJV Edited March 30, 2005 by rjvoight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyman Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 It is not the same thing as it was back then. Israel continually doubted God so they created a different god and worshiped it, not the God of Israel. When did that change, from what it was then to what it is now, take place? Christmas and Easter for the Christian are a time to worship and praise the God of Israel, not some pagan god or goddess. I guess I come from the school of thought that if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck. And what's wrong with the other 364 days of the year? The stiffnecked people of Israel repeatedly disobeyed God even after they were repeatedly saved by him and when they wanted to cover up their sinful worship of the pagan god they created, they called it a celebration to God. Sounds alot like christmas and easter. You quoted the scripture that shows that faith without works is dead. So when you express your faith in exactly the same way, on the same day, with all the same people that are engaged in a pagan practice, what kind of works are you using to demonstrate your faith? That's like saying... I smoke weed but I'm thinking of Jesus or... I'm beating my wife but I'm thinking about Jesus, I'm stealling cars but thinking about Jesus. I think you get my point. A thought from Ephesians... (Ephesians 4:17-24) 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshdagreat56 Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Just a few interesting thoughts on the matter , if you look up easter in the encyclopedia it describes the background of it and the whole bunny thing came into play from the fertillity god. If you have a encyclopedia take a look at it its quite interesting. Also I think its kinda wierd that people put stars on there trees as deceration,it symbolizes the same star that guided king herods man to kill jesus. go figure also if you go back to the oringinal text in hebrew in greek there never was mentioned a cross it was always called a stake or tourture stake. his hands weren't to the side of him they were above him. Just a little bit of things I've learned in my study... Also christmas in the encylopedia is quite interesting the tree and mistle toe all refer to pagan gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98bonerSTOCKshee Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 ohh.. I shouldn't do this. Who wrote the bible? How many time has it been translated? Who translates it? .... I can't sit here and say that I believe in God, Jesus and/or the Holy spirt(unless it's holyman). I beleive that if you live your life how you would like, not causing trouble taking care of the people you love and all the other good stuff, you get put into the earth.. That is it... My faith is deep within my heart... I don't feel I need to attend anytype of Church, ecspecially now days with the damn catholic priest and all..Who can you trust but your own faith... There's apart in the bible (not sure where) but it was talking about prostitution if you ask me... It went something like this, If I was to get a farmers daughter pregnant I would own him a cow. anyhow's it just my way of thinking, never said it was right just what I thinking... and no I didn't proofread, it wouldn't do any good.... laterz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyman Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 josh... a good chunk of that info on easter was posted early on in this discussion. It was a very well written expose' on the origin of easter. This conversation has kind of morphed into christmas too but the origins are similar. You have done well to find these things without having to be pointed in that direction. 98... maybe you should start a new posting {probably in the roosting room... religious discussion get's pretty passionate} I'd be happy to contribute. Just give me a holla, I rarely go in there. Maybe you could have a poll in there too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjvoight Posted March 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 When did that change, from what it was then to what it is now, take place? 347439[/snapback] What I was trying to say what Isreal did, choosing another god to worship is not the same as Christians worshiping the one and true God at Christmas and Easter. In vs. 1 of Ephesians 32 the people of Isreal said Aaron, "Come make us a god who will go before us". They were asking for a pagan replacement because they doubted God. When the golden calf was formed, the people of Israel said "This is your god, O Isreal, who brought you up from the land of Egypt". When Aaron saw what the people were doing he built an altar and told the people there was to be a feast to the Lord the next day (notice the capital L in Lord) The following celebration was directed solely to that idol with no thought of the God that delivered them from Egypt b the nation of Isreal. You and I are getting caught up in a "battle" of "religion". As I have said before, the most important issue at hand is a personal relationship with Jesus. A real relationship with a real person. Differences in opinion over a holiday season and how you deal with those times of year will not matter when we die and stand before God. What will matter is if a person has accepted what Jesus did for them on the cross. Did that person call out to Jesus and ask for forgiveness and accept it. What they do after that moment will be noted but will not get them into heaven or keep them out. Can we agree on that? No one is perfect. No one can be good enough to get into heaven but when we accept Jesus, our sin, past present and future is taken away, as far as the east is from the west. Praise God, 'cuz I fall and fail almost every day......but I am forgiven, Jesus death and ressuretion paid the price for my sins. Anyway, I enjoy the posts, it encourages me to get into the Bible and look at some things I have not thought about in a while. RJV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98bonerSTOCKshee Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 98... maybe you should start a new posting {probably in the roosting room... religious discussion get's pretty passionate} I'd be happy to contribute. Just give me a holla, I rarely go in there. Maybe you could have a poll in there too 347458[/snapback] oops I am sorry I got side tracked again... I wan't trying to bash any religon.. I was gonna add that %50 of the people that celebrate these holidays don't even know why. As a young boy my family (everyone aunts, uncles and grandma ) used to attend a catholic church. My uncle had passed alway while in the military in the late 70's. After all the remorse and dealing with his death the church basically kicked my aunt out. She couldn't aforrd the 10% of income that is expected to go to the church.. So, basically this turned my mother alway and we never entered another church again.. I never really knew the whole concept of these holidays until my later teen years hearing it from other people.. geez.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjvoight Posted March 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 ohh.. I shouldn't do this. Who wrote the bible? How many time has it been translated? Who translates it? ... 347455[/snapback] Fair Question. The Bible is 66 books written by over 40 different men, most of whom did not know eachother. The amazing thing about it is that the entire book, from Genesis to Revelation has one main topic. That topic is Jesus Christ. There are lots of subtopics but the main point is simple. The main story is how man can be reconciled through Jesus Christ. These men could not have written the books of the Bible and made it dove tail together so perfectly on their own. The answer to your question is that God himself wrote the Bible using us humans. I am in no way saying you can not be a good person and do the things you mentioned as to taking care of your family and doing the right thing while you are on Earth. I have lots of non-Christian friends that are good people, but my heart hurts for them because there is so much more to the this life than just trying to be a good person. RJV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 What I was trying to say what Isreal did, choosing another god to worship is not the same as Christians worshiping the one and true God at Christmas and Easter. Amen! Excellent job illustrating your point RJV. I feel ya...as they say. My personal opinion is that Holy won't see the light on this issue because his selective perspective saves him money and the stress of shopping for gifts . Hey holy, do you believe in salvation through Christ? If so, what are you afraid of? Buy your loved ones some Christmas gifts and Easter candy you cheap ass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshdagreat56 Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 josh... a good chunk of that info on easter was posted early on in this discussion. It was a very well written expose' on the origin of easter. This conversation has kind of morphed into christmas too but the origins are similar. You have done well to find these things without having to be pointed in that direction. sorry for not reading all the posts ... I was in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjvoight Posted March 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 (edited) Amen! Edited March 31, 2005 by rjvoight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYUK Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Buy your loved ones some Christmas gifts and Easter candy you cheap ass! hahahahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyman Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 As it has been adequately explained, easter is not a holiday to glorify God or his Son Jesus. It is a holiday that is firmly based on pagan fertility rituals that are offensive to god and that have now become a tradition that is by name only a celebration of Jesus' death. Saying one thing and doing another is hypocrisy. So when Jesus saw those who were not only in a prominant religious position but were also those in charge of the churches doing one thing and saying another, he told them... (Mark 7:5-8) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 So EVERY Christian who recognizes Christmas and Easter is unworthy of salvation? Unless that is the statement that you are making, I still contend that your opinion is skewed because it benefits you to not have to deal with the stress of shopping for gifts for your loved ones. So, is EVERY Christian who recognizes Christmas and Easter unworthy of salvation? Think before answering. That would be an awful lot of good Christians for you to condemn to hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyman Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 When Christmas, Easter, or a Hell for eternal torture find their way into the bible, I'll be there doin' it too. You can't honestly think that I would change my entire life to avoid tossing some cheap gifts to a bunch of unappreciative folks who don't want to give gifts either. And salvation is God's decision not mine. But The bible is chock full of simple instructions that anyone can understand that should help you see if your own behaviour is approved by God or not. Hypocrisy should be one of the easy ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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