EASTER

[Holyman]

He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

Like the scripture from Esaias that the eunuch was reading, you are as the sheep led to slaughter if you continue in the teachings of jehovah witness.

You just said I was like Jesus.

Jesus, the lamb of God was lead silently to the slaughter. The judgement by corrupt humans was taken away when he died for us.

You have condemned me for months and you just now said I was like Jesus. I guess the truth does come out in the end. This just proves that like Balaam who attempted to call down wickedness upon God's people, God turned it around and it became a blessing 3 times. When stupid Balaam opened his mouth, instead of the curses he intended to say, blessings came out.

I am happy to be counted as the lamb. Thank You.

[banshee04le]

Nice try, but that is not how this scripture applies to YOU and you know it.

The metaphor is not lost on you...you get it, despite your veiled attempt at denial.

You ARE YOUR definition of Jesus

#4 Jesus is a creature!

so it is not suprising that you would misinterpret the metaphor as applied to YOU.

What about the question? Here it is again, as I said, just for starters:

 

In Rev 22:12-13, Jesus Christ, the one who is "coming quickly", says of himself, " I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end". In Rev 1:17-18, Jesus, the one who "became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever", refers to himself as the first and the last. Rev 21:6, in speaking of God, says, "...I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end ...". God is also referred to as the "first" and the "last" in Isa 44:6 and Isa 48:12. How can this be since by definition of these words there can only be one first and one last?

 

The fat lady is singing and you are still dancing.

[Holyman]

Try reading posting 344.

Jesus was not the one speaking in Rev 22:12,13.

[banshee04le]

Revelation 22:12-13 WAS spoken by Jesus...it is in red ink. So what are you talking about????

 

In Rev 22:12-13, Jesus Christ, the one who is "coming quickly", says of himself, " I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end". In Rev 1:17-18, Jesus, the one who "became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever", refers to himself as the first and the last. Rev 21:6, in speaking of God, says, "...I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end ...". God is also referred to as the "first" and the "last" in Isa 44:6 and Isa 48:12. How can this be since by definition of these words there can only be one first and one last?

 

Where is your answer?

[Holyman]

Let me quote one of your scriptures... It is taken from banshee04le chapter 1...

And it came to pass that Jesus only speaks in red ink.

Here's something in red ink...

(John 14:28) 28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.

And before you try to interpret the END of Revelation, you should start with Chapter 1....

It is obvious that John is here speaking/writing on behalf of himslef, Jesus, and Almighty God. In fact Rev 1:1 shows that... 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Chew on that again. I'm going to bed

[banshee04le]

Jehovah God said: Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Jesus Christ said: Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

Let me show you verses 6& 7... 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Even you who uses the word Amen don't want to accept the fact that you always put the "Amen" at the end of the thought being conveyed.

It is obvious that John is here speaking/writing on behalf of himslef, Jesus, and Almighty God. In fact Rev 1:1 shows that... 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

 

381149[/snapback]

 

This is all that you said pertaining to Revelations in post #344, which you directed me to. Nothing about chapter 22:12-13...which I am curious as to where you got the WRONG idea that it was not attributed to Jesus.

 

It is also interesting that you said:

Let me show you verses 6& 7...  6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Even you who uses the word Amen don't want to accept the fact that you always put the "Amen" at the end of the thought being conveyed.

"God and his Father"...you just pointed out that Jesus is God. Good job Balaam. Amen.

Jesus, as you know, is the ONE who was "pierced", and He is coming back with judgment for all who have rejected Him and "all kindreds of the earth shall wail" specifically those who have maligned (pierced) him, and you called him a creature and argue to strip him of his diety. You probably agree with some of the davinci code wickedness currently abounding. All of this perverseness concerning Jesus comes as no suprise to God. It has been written! Repent and proclaim Jesus as the ONLY way to the Father, for that also has been written!

 

Another unspoken truth that you fail to realize is that any GOOD father would WILL for his son to be GREATER than he. With GOOD nurturing, that can be acheived.

Would you not will your son to be greater than you...to be smarter, to prosper more or whatever?

Edited June 15, 2005 by banshee04le

[banshee04le]

For anyone still with us, here is a little insight as to the historical impact of Jesus Christ. Jesus backed up his claims of being "ONE with the Father" and the "only way to God" with miraculous works. Works so powerful that ALL "credable" religions HAD to embrace Him.

 

Islam teaches that:

* Jesus (Isa in the Qur'an) was one of God's many human prophets who were chosen to teach Islam to mankind at different stages; the final and completed stage being taught by God's final prophet, Muhammad.

* Jesus was one of God's highest ranked and most beloved prophets sent for the guidance of Children of Israel and who was born miraculously without any human biological father by the will of God.

* There is no god except the one true God. God does not have a son. Thus, as with all prophets, Jesus was a human being.

* As with all prophets, Jesus was able to perform miracles, but only by the will of God.

* Jesus renounced all worldly possessions and lived a life of strict nonviolence, abstaining from eating animal flesh and from drinking alcohol.

* Jesus was neither killed nor crucified; but God made it appear so to his enemies.

* Jesus is alive and will return to the world in the flesh along with the Mahdi once the world has become filled with injustice.

 

Ahmadiyyas believe that Jesus survived the crucifixion and travelled to Kashmir (See Yuz Asaf). They also believe that references to the Second Coming of Jesus in religious scriptures are allegorical and refer to the arrival of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Ahmadiyyas are not considered Muslim by most mainstream Muslims.

 

Some Muslims accept the Gospel of Barnabas as the most accurate testament of Jesus. However, almost all non-Muslim scholars dismiss this document as completely unauthentic.

 

Muslims do not "repent and believe the gospel" as Jesus said to do. Muslim extremists are proof that Islam does not have the WORD of God. They think that they can martyr themselves to 40 virgins or something, yet they are forced to recon with the POWER that Jesus displayed...but like so many religions, they have the WORD of God twisted

 

Judaism

To the extent that Jesus is promoted as the Messiah, this claim is broadly rejected as heretical to Judaism. Jews do not believe in Jesus, especially as a prophet. Religious Jews view the world as unredeemed and are still awaiting the Messianic time. As for the historical personality of Jesus, Judaism has fewer objections to quotes attributed to him than they do with subsequent confessions by early Christian adherents, Paul in particular. Some believe that Jesus is mentioned as Yeshu in the Jewish Talmud, although many scholars dispute this. Joseph Klausner, a prominent Israeli scholar, was vigorous in asserting the Judaism of Jesus.

Jewish religious authorities view Messianic Judaism as a Christian and not a Jewish movement.

 

Jewish authorities at the time of Jesus rejected Christ basically because they were comfortable with the way things were at the time because the Jewish religious leaders had all of the power in their society and wanted to keep it. They could not understand God's WORD that supercedes yet goes hand in hand with their "written in stone" Torrah (law).. Nothing new for the Jews. They rejected God REPEATEDLY in the old testament as well and Moses bartered for God's mercy and prolonged their time.

 

 

Other perspectives

 

Hinduism

The Hare Krishna sect of Hinduism believes that Jesus is the son of Krishna (who they believe is God the Father that Jesus spoke of), and they accept many of his teachings.

 

The Bah

[Holyman]

04... I'm not surprised that you have now gone to religions outside of the Christian faith to support your beliefs. Your beliefs have all along been supported firmly on Pagan beliefs that are well outside of the bible.

You have misquoted me and the bible in an effort to turn whoever might still be reading this train wreck of a thread away from the written word of God.

The basics you have missed are still there. It's simple. When a person talks about their father, it is their father. When someone is greater, then they are greater. When someone is given a title, that title does not mean everyone else with the same title is the same person.

Let me lay it out again...

What is God's name...

Psalm 83:16-18... 16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.

17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:

18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

 

That Jesus is not equal to God...

Phil 1:5-8 KJV... 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Phil 1:5-8 NASB... 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,

6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

John 14:28... 28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.

 

Almighty God can never be human...

Numbers 23:19... 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it ? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

1Cor 15:50... 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

John 4:24... 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 1:18... 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him .

John 6:46... 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Exodus 33:20... 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

 

The title "God" is used to describe many things but these are not Almighty God...

Moses is God... Exodus 7:1... 1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

The people of Israel are Gods... Ps 82:6... 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Jesus confirms Ps 82:6... John 10:34... 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Belly is God... Phil 3:18,19... 18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Satan is God... 2Cor 4:3,4... 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,

Many Gods... 1Cor 8:5,6... 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;

 

These are just a few of the scriptures in the bible that show who Almighty God is and who he is not.

For those who have the "red letter bible", I invite you to start in Matthew and read thru what Jesus said in the Gospels and you will find that in each and every case, Jesus ALWAYS puts himself beneath his Father. NEVER EVER EVER does Jesus claim authority to do anything on his own. {John 5:19,30, 7:28, 8:28,42,} Almighty God NEVER EVER EVER says his authority comes from anyone but himself.

I have no doubt that I could go on forever in a circular debate with 04 while he searches the entire web for every kind of religious thought known to man. I will only rely on the actual bible.

 

rj... I'm still in the process of bidding on another duplicate bible to yours. My modem went down and I've been crazy busy at work. Please bear with me.

[banshee04le]

I knew that you would try to sidestep the issue when I digressed away from you with the last post above, but it is of no consequence, as your religion has been exposed as wickedly flawed and the victory of Jesus in this thread and in this world is emminent. So back to YOU.

 

 

Let me lay it out again...

What is God's name...

Psalm 83:16-18... 16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.

17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:

18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

 

I could answer this a lot of ways but I will just ask you why it says, in the scripture that YOU pointed out in the spirit of Balaam, "God and His Father" ...here it is again:

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

See...Jesus is God and He is the Almighty. Jesus IS JEHOVAH! Your beliefs about Jesus are no more accurate than those of the Muslims!

 

That Jesus is not equal to God...

Phil 1:5-8 KJV... 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

 

See! You did it again Balaam! It does not say "thought it robbery"...it says

"thought it NOT robbery"..."who being in the form of God, thought it NOT robbery to be equal with God". Take your blinders off boy. All you have to do is cry out to Jesus and leave your cult and Jesus will save you as long as you tell someone else about the love of Jesus and not "bury your talent" for the Lord reaps where he does not sow and Jesus said: Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

The jehovah wittness won't kill you if you leave, like the Muslims will but I know that they DO make it very difficult. Your whole family would have to up and leave or else you would be condemned and shunned as an "apostate" even by your own family and they would be urged to disassociate themselves with you. Don't you think that is strange that they try to trap you in like that? Just like the Muslims.

Here are two reasons that you do not know God:

Matthew 13:10-19

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11He answered and said unto them Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hea not, neither do they understand. 14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15For this peoples heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16But blessed are your eyes, for they see and your ears for they hear 17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them: and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. 18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. You don't have Jesus, and since you came into the Easter thread with your blasphemy, Jesus is stripping away that which you thought you had, as spoken in verse 12. It is easy to understand that Jesus is telling his disciples that they are HEARING AND LOOKING AT GOD IN THE FLESH, just as God had foretold. Those who don't accept God in the flesh are those whos "heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." The wicked one has stolen Jesus from you and made you think that you are wise and prudent. That is reason #2 that you don't know God.

Luke 10:21

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. 22ALL things are delivered to me of my Father; and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son

 

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

 

Do you see that..."made in the likeness of men", by the Father and HE is ONE with the Father...don't you understand what "ONE WITH THE FATHER" means? Jesus said "I and my Father are ONE" and I will point that out more as I address the rest of your misinterpretations.

 

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

Yep, that was God's plan for salvation, a test to see who will accept and believe his WORD (Jesus). Jesus got the WORD to all nations, as I pointed out in my last post, and even the Muslims are on the "path" for they do not deny Jesus as a prophet, just like you JW's, but that is why God says that the "path is wide but the gate is narrow" for the test is to receive Jesus like a "babe" and not as the "wise and prudent"

 

Phil 1:5-8 NASB... 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,

6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

 

Now look at you...it is Phil 2:5-8 and you already quoted that in the spirit of Balaam remember:

5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it NOT robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant...

This is testament from Paul the Apostle and YOU KNOW that Paul thought Jesus to be ONE with the Father. Paul is saying to have in your mind that Jesus IS equall with God, just as Jesus, being in the form of God, KNEW THAT HE WAS the Son of God and as such IS equall with the Father. And how can you deny that ANY GOOD FATHER would WILL his SON to be greater than he. If you do not realize that, then you are NOT a good father yourself and as such, perhaps don't deserve to be with the Father, and you won't be if you do not accept and lift up Jesus, for it is written that He is the only way to God.

 

John 14:28... 28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.

 

This also does not work for you. Jesus is foretelling the Passion (his death on the cross) to his disciples and is comforting them. Of course God the Father is greater than God in the flesh. The Father is eternal, the flesh is not, but the spirit of the Father dwelt in Jesus in "all fullness" and the Bible says that you are supposed to bow down to and lift up the Son. Do I need to point out to you how many times Jesus is worshipped by various people in the Bible. This was at a time and place in history when worshipping anything but the "true" God could get you killed by your fellow man! Did Jesus rebuke those who worshipped Him? NO!!! If Jesus was not God, he certainly WOULD HAVE rebuked them, but HE DID NOT!!!

 

Almighty God can never be human...

 

Wrong. And who are you to say what Almighty God is capable of? He made everything out of nothing! Therefore, this is a very wicked statement that you just made.

 

Numbers 23:19... 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it ? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

 

God is "not a man" that he should lie. Also, the son of man is "not a man" that he should repent. Jesus in not a man, therefore He has no need for repentance because he is ONE with the Father. Good job Balaam. This was even spoken to you of old

 

1Cor 15:50... 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

Well, the verse you quoted right above this one says that Jesus "is not a man"

so enough said on that.

 

 

John 4:24... 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

Yeah, and Jesus is ONE with the ALMIGHTY SPIRIT and Revelations says that Jesus is the ONE who will return to judge all who have not accepted Him.

 

John 1:18... 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him .

 

Who, being in the form of God, thought it NOT robbery to be equal with God:But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Do you see that? Jesus is equall with God, but MADE HIMSELF of no reputation and humbled HIMSELF for the salvation of His beloved creation of humanity.. When Jesus returns, THEN you will SEE HIM in ALL of HIS ALMIGHTY GLORY.

 

 

John 6:46... 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

 

The same TRUTH applies here as the explanation above, God humbled HIMSELF. God can do anything! Be everything! At the same time!

 

Exodus 33:20... 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

 

The same TRUTH applies here as the explanation above.

 

The title "God" is used to describe many things but these are not Almighty God...

Moses is God... Exodus 7:1... 1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

The people of Israel are Gods... Ps 82:6... 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Jesus confirms Ps 82:6... John 10:34... 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Belly is God... Phil 3:18,19... 18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Satan is God... 2Cor 4:3,4... 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,

Many Gods... 1Cor 8:5,6... 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;

These are just a few of the scriptures in the bible that show who Almighty God is and who he is not.

 

Your wrote

Satan is God

...I would NEVER utter such blasphemy in a million years!!! Woe to you!!!

 

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

This brings us back to the question (the first of many that I have for you) that you have been ducking, dodging, sidestepping and dancing your way around:

 

In Isaiah 44:6 God says:

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

(do you see that? AND HIS REDEEMER the LORD of hosts"...they are ONE from the beginning of the beginning...they are both first and they are both last because they are ONE! Therefore Jesus COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CREATED!)

 

Isaiah 48:12 God said:

Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he ; I am the first, I also am the last.

 

Revelations1:8 Jesus said:

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

Revelations 1:11 Jesus said:

I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:

 

Revelations 22: 12-13 Jesus said:

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

Sooooo, how can this be, since by definition of these words, there can only be ONE first and ONE last? I have many more questions for you, but lets take them one at a time. I addressed and corrected every single one of your misinterpretations above, leaving no stone unturned, and it was EASY. Surely you can handle one question at a time.

[Holyman]

...Therefore Jesus COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CREATED!

 

That's an easy one...

Col 1:15... 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

A creature is created, a son is created, an image is created, a firstborn is created. Jesus, the firstborn of all creation, the son of God, the Image of God, was created.

 

Next question?

[banshee04le]

That's an easy one...

Col 1:15... 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

A creature is created, a son is created, an image is created, a firstborn is created. Jesus, the firstborn of all creation, the son of God, the Image of God, was created.

 

Next question?

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That is the best that you can do? I'll move onto more questions that you CANNOT answer (I have a lot of them) after you answer this one. Why did you omit the very next couple of verses after the one that you just tried to misinterpret and take out of context. Why does it say Col 1:16 FOR BY HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED THAT ARE IN HEAVEN, AND THAT ARE IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE WHETHER THEY BE THHRONES, OR DOMINIONS, OR PRINCIPALITIES, OR POWERS: ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM, AND FOR HIM 17AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST AND HE IS THE HEAD OF THE BODY, THE CHURCH, THE FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD; THAT IN ALL THINGS HE MIGHT HAVE THE PREEMINECE. 19FOR IT PLEASED THE FATHER THAT IN HIM SHOULD ALL FULNESS DWELL

So why are you taking things out of context? How can He have been created when He AND the Father are both ALPHA and OMEGA, FIRST and LAST? He is ONE with the FATHER, that has been more than adequately PROVEN. You are falling for the WRONG SIDE OF THE PARABLE because you "understandeth NOT and then came the wicked one and stole away that which was sown in your heart. YOU have received seed by the wayside. You have been cunningly deceived by the wicked one and made to think that you are wise and prudent, when the TRUTH will ONLY be revealed to BABES." CUNNINGLY DECEIVED YOU HAVE BEEN, JUST LIKE JESUS PREDICTED. YOU HAVE DENIED JESUS IN THE WORST WAY. You are also on the WRONG side of the parable of the SHEEP THAT IS DUMB BEFORE HIS SHEERER AS YOU ARE LED TO SLAUGHTER. You must receive JESUS like a child (babe). Your side of the parable does not stand up to TRUTH. THAT is the test and you are FAILING!

So where is your answer?

 

In Isaiah 44:6 God says:

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

(do you see that? AND HIS REDEEMER the LORD of hosts"...they are ONE from the beginning of the beginning...they are BOTH FIRST and they are BOTH LAST because they are ONE! Therefore Jesus COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CREATED!)

 

Isaiah 48:12 God said:

Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he ; I am the first, I also am the last.

 

Revelations1:8 Jesus said:

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

Revelations 1:11 Jesus said:

I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:

 

Revelations 22: 12-13 Jesus said:

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

Sooooo, how can this be, since by definition of these words, there can only be ONE first and ONE last?

 

You think that you calling JESUS a creature AGAIN (Woe to you!!!) answers this? It doesn't. That is the best you can do? You CANNOT ADEQUETLY answer this because you are cunningly deceived by the wicked one to fall for the wrong side of the parable. You are WIDE on the path and NO WHERE NEAR the gate. How can you not know that you are DENYING JESUS his DIETY. THAT IS WHAT "WHOSOEVER SHALL DENY ME BEFORE MEN, HIM SHALL I ALSO DENY BEFORE MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN (who JESUS is ONE with, the are both FIRST and both LAST because they are ONE!) What is your explanation Mr. WRONG SIDE OF THE PARABLE? Remember this:

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11He answered and said unto them Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15For this peoples heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their HEART, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16But blessed are your eyes, for they see and your ears for they hear 17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them: and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. 18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

 

In Isaiah 44:6 God says:

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

(do you see that? AND HIS REDEEMER the LORD of hosts"...they are ONE from the beginning of the beginning...they are both first and they are both last because they are ONE! Therefore Jesus COULD NOT HAVE BEEN CREATED!)

 

So where is your answer Mr. Jesus is a "creature". Admit that you cannot answer it with a preponderance of the evidence to justify being on the right side of the parable and I will give you another question if you would like. Guess what, not only are you wrong about this, but you are most definitely wrong, and again cunningly deceived, if you think you will get a second chance for salvation after you die .

"ALL WILL FIND THAT THEIR DEEDS WERE NOT ENOUGH"! ESPECIALLY YOURS!

Humble yourself and save your family!

 

1 Timothy 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

Humble yourself and save your family.

[Holyman]

So since I am so wrong on what Col 1:15 says, what does it mean when it says that Jesus is the Image of God the Firstborn of all creatures?

See the whole bible is accurate and without conflict. So if the whole thing doesn't make sense, then the understanding is wrong. It seems to me that you are saying something like this...

 

In the beginning of everything God was by himself. But he also had 2 other parts of himself that he could split off and they could do what he told them or talk to him or pray to him or ask for his guidance. But these other parts of himself are still God.

One day God and his other 2 personalities create humans and the humans tick him off so he punishes them with eternal torture. Apparently God has made a deal with his sworn enemy Satan, so that any of God's bad kids that have listened to Satan get sent to his place to be tortured. It seems that God is more ticked off at stupid humans than the devil because he sends them to the Devil to be tortured so they know they did something wrong to God. Anyway... because God really loves them, especially personality #2, he says right from the beginning that he, #2 {but really he himself since all of his personalities are him} is going to go and kill himself to pay for their sins. After a few thousand years, {apparently God is in no hurry to kill himself for these rotten kids he made} he goes and kills himself to pay himself back for the wrong that his kids did to him. The 3rd part of his personality is basically a maid or errand boy or handy man that runs around just doing what it's told and fixing things that are messed up. The thing is

[banshee04le]

So since I am so wrong on what Col 1:15 says, what does it mean when it says that Jesus is the Image of God the Firstborn of all creatures?

See the whole bible is accurate and without conflict.

 

Dude, you are taking this out of context as usuall. The whole Bible is accurate when taken IN context! You are totally missing the big picture because you are led as a lamb to slaughter by satan!

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 FOR BY HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED THAT ARE IN HEAVEN, AND THAT ARE IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE WHETHER THEY BE THHRONES, OR DOMINIONS, OR PRINCIPALITIES, OR POWERS: ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM, AND FOR HIM 17AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST AND HE IS THE HEAD OF THE BODY, THE CHURCH, THE FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD; THAT IN ALL THINGS HE MIGHT HAVE THE PREEMINECE. 19FOR IT PLEASED THE FATHER THAT IN HIM SHOULD ALL FULNESS DWELL

 

All things have been created "BY HIM and FOR HIM". If Jesus was Michael the Archangel at the time of creation, would an angel have created all things for himself? Isa 43:7 says God created "everyone ... for my OWN glory...".

 

Jn 1:3 says in reference to Christ, "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence". How could Christ have been a created being if ALL things came into existence through him? If Jesus was a created being, then according to Jn 1:3, Jesus would have had to create himself.

in Isa 44:24, God says that he "by myself" created the heavens and the earth and asks the question "Who was with me?"

 

How come rj and I can answer these questions and you can not?

Why are you denying Jesus when Jesus said that will surely rule you OUT of the Kingdom of Heaven?

How come you still have not answered why God in the old testament and Jesus in the new testament both said that they are "Alpha and Omega the First and Last

the Beginning and the Ending"????? There can only be ONE FIRST and ONE LAST!

I have many more also that you cannot answer, but ANSWER THESE OR STOP WASTING EVERONES TIME!!!!

Do you have a question that we cannot answer Mr. "take things out of context"?

 

You have been cut assunder by the wolf in sheeps clothing. As I pointed out, you have no better or more accurate view than the Muslims!!!

 

15For this peoples heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their HEART, and should be converted, and I should heal them . 16But blessed are your eyes, for they see and your ears for they hear 17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them: and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. 18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

 

1 Timothy 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

The tide was fully turned against you in this thread on the birthday of ADAM and SIN

...coincedence? HE HAS REVEALED HIMSELF

 

Luke 10:21

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. 22ALL things are delivered to me of my Father; and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son and he to whom the Son will REVEAL HIM!!!

 

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Isaiah 44:24

Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, AND he that formed thee from the womb, I AM the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF

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This SAYS IT ALL!!! THEY ARE ONE!!!!! The fat lady has sang her FIRST and LAST song!!!

 

Do you still DENY the unspoken TRUTH of LOVE that ANY good Father would WILL

for his Son to be greater than Himself... wouldn't you WILL for your son to be greater than you...to be smarter, to prosper more or whatever?...THAT IS THE LOVE OF A FATHER!!! Do you think the Father is not a GOOD Father?

Edited June 18, 2005 by banshee04le

[banshee04le]

And guess what, if you are wrong about this, which you OBVIOUSLY ARE, then you are WRONG about HELL too! And since you seem to not understand how God could torture you for ever and ever, I'll tell you what has been revealed to ME. God doesn't torture you. Hell is this simple....God does not have to torture you for eternity. ETERNITY TORTURES YOU FOR ETERNITY...ever notice how you can tire so quickly of things that at first didn't really seem all that bad...maybe it was even fun for a while? ANYTHING FOR ETERNITY WITHOUT THE FATHER IS HELL. IF YOU DENY JESUS THEN YOU DENY THE LIGHT...YOU CAST YOURSELF INTO DARKNESS. God does not "withhold" light from the wicked. The wicked "withhold" light from THEMSELVES. HE DOESN'T TORTURE YOU, BUT YOU WILL SUFFER BECAUSE HE MADE THE SPIRIT ETERNAL. IF YOU DENY JESUS, YOU WILL CAST YOURSELF INTO DARKNESS FOR EVER AND EVER. God created everything, and since then, NOTHING is created and NOTHING is destroyed! It just changes state. Science has proven that. Have you ever noticed that there is much more darkness in the universe than light, yet light has all of the power? Ever notice how light cannot be explained in any real worldly terms. The best thing scientests have ever made up is that light is made up of something called photons that cannot be grasped or defined and these "photons" propogate through something they call "ether" which also cannot be grasped or defined. We have at least discovered that, at the speed of light, TIME BECOMES NON EXISTENT. TIME is the torture of eternity. Time is the torture of the first one to close his eyes to the Light (deny God), which was satan. 144,000 (or whatever) JEWS will be saved for their deeds. Gentiles MUST HAVE the GRACE OF GOD. God knew that the Jews would reject Him. Are you a Jew or are you a Gentile? Come to the light. Jesus said:

Matthew 8:11,12

11And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

Notice that the children who sit down with the WRONG "God" are cast into outer darkness. The children of Jesus Christ are of the light:

 

1Thessalonians 5:4,5 Speaking of the second coming of Christ:

4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Ephesians 5:13,14

13But all things that are reproved (you have not reproved yourself) are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light

5:20 Giving thanks always unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: 6:6 "but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart".....12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places....23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace be with them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.

 

Notice 5:20 says God AND the Father, 6:23 says God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.. They are ONE. If that were not true the Bible would NEVER MIX THE TITLES, but it does FREQUENTLY because it is written to make it clear to those who Jesus said "should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their HEART, and should be converted, and I should heal them" .

You will also notice that it says that it is "Gods will" to be a "servant of Christ".

 

Mathew 17:7-10

But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? 8And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? 9Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. 10So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

 

I am forever a HUMBLE SERVANT of the LORD. I will defend His honor without recompence of reward, but simply because it is JUST and RIGHT and TRUE.

 

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Isaiah 44:24-26

24Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, AND he that formed thee from the womb, I AM the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF; 25That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 26That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers....

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[Holyman]

Just to give you an idea how brain dead you are, you keep saying I'm a sheep being sent to the slaughter as if that's a bad thing. How many evil sheep are there in the bible?

The second thing is you keep saying that God and Jesus are the same but you never can grasp why God would need to call himself 2 different things if he is ONE. The God you are talking about is a liar. The bible says there is one God, Jehovah and yet you say he is really Jesus and he killed himself. Family re-unions must be a real trip for you because great grampa and his son and his son and you are all the same. Unless when God says when he has a son he doesn't know what the word son means.