banshee04le Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 How can a floaty ghosty thing that lives on after you die be inept? Or are you now accepting the fact that the soul IS the person.BTW have you figure dout what Raca is yet? 372627[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 As illustration by example of someone who is not short sighted or spiritually inept, I would like to express a clarification on something I said earlier pertaining to repentance. This clarification is based on personal spiritual growth and enlightenment. While I still contend that repentance can be emotional, I implied that it involved some sort of personal reflection or spiritual introspection that should manifest itself in remorse. That may or may not be part of the souls spiritual cleansing process to prepare the ground for the seed of salvation, but I do not believe it is an implicit requirement. Rather, repentance is simply a consequence of spiritual growth. In other words, repentance is simply humbly moving closer to an understanding of God's will, which can be expressed and experienced joyfully. God's will is simply for us to break free of those things which chain the spirit to the soul. Nonetheless, no person can attain, on their own, complete knowledge of the truth. Luckily for us, the truth was divinely bestowed upon Jesus, who is there to serve as proxy for all who accept, keep the faith and aspire to move closer to God's will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locogato11283 Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 18 pages...you guys just gettin started??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyman Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 As illustration by example of someone who is not short sighted or spiritually inept, I would like to express a clarification on something I said earlier pertaining to repentance.This clarification is based on personal spiritual growth and enlightenment. While I still contend that repentance can be emotional, I implied that it involved some sort of personal reflection or spiritual introspection that should manifest itself in remorse. That may or may not be part of the souls spiritual cleansing process to prepare the ground for the seed of salvation, but I do not believe it is an implicit requirement. Rather, repentance is simply a consequence of spiritual growth. In other words, repentance is simply humbly moving closer to an understanding of God's will, which can be expressed and experienced joyfully. God's will is simply for us to break free of those things which chain the spirit to the soul. Nonetheless, no person can attain, on their own, complete knowledge of the truth. Luckily for us, the truth was divinely bestowed upon Jesus, who is there to serve as proxy for all who accept, keep the faith and aspire to move closer to God's will. 372663[/snapback] And what scriptures do you base these new theories on? I know you would never do this but maybe you should set aside your self-aggrandizement for a moment and crack out the dictionary. Start out with introspection and end up at repentance. If you do research in the actual bible and not just in your head, you will see that repentance is the result of effort and not just a by-product of spiritual understanding. Repentance requires action on the part of the repentant one. Repent is a verb not a noun. So for a person to repent means they must take action and not just sit there and be "spiritual" and have repentance grow on them. It's interesting too that even though you said the Holy Spirit had abandoned this thread, you claim to have grown spiritually since then. Hmmm maybe you don't know everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 you will see that repentance is the result of effort and not just a by-product of spiritual understanding. Repentance requires action on the part of the repentant one. Repent is a verb not a noun. So for a person to repent means they must take action and not just sit there and be "spiritual" and have repentance grow on them. Yeah, and I said accept, keep the faith and aspire to move closer to God's will. Anyway though, as has been one of the main points I have been trying to make all along, you talk alot about about the "EFFORT" and "ACTION" one must take more than you talk about Jesus. And this is wrong because all you are doing is talking. Your "EFFORT" or "ACTION" does not exceed mine and, according to the Bible, is not a measure of ones salvation anyway. You are continuosly and feverishly working only to defend you own "easy way out" theories instead of defending Christ (lifting him up) like the Bible says that you should do. You have said that, God requires: love, joy, peace, long suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness and self control.. I have seen you exhibit relatively few of these traits the past few months. All you have done for 2 months is try to self justify yourself for not recognizing Christmas, Easter and not voting. FINE DON'T DO THOSE THINGS, but don't try to come in here and say that other Christians aren't pleasing God if we do. In other words,stop trying to self justify yourself, because you are simultaneously turning people away from the Word. Hmmm maybe you don't know everything. Nonetheless, no person can attain, on their own, complete knowledge of the truth. Luckily for us, the truth was divinely bestowed upon Jesus, who is there to serve as proxy for all who accept, keep the faith and aspire to move closer to God's will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super88_banshee Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 18 pages...you guys just gettin started??? 372674[/snapback] I too was beginning to think this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyman Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 accept, keep the faith and aspire to move closer to God's will. You may aspire to move closer to God's will but your aspirations require no effort on your part and I doubt you can show in the bible what God's will is. Your "EFFORT" or "ACTION" does not exceed mine and, according to the Bible, is not a measure of ones salvation anyway. (John 14:12) . . .. 12 Most truly I say to YOU, He that exercises faith in me, that one also will do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father. (James 2:14-22) 14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? 15 If a brother or a sister is in a naked state and lacking the food sufficient for the day, 16 yet a certain one of YOU says to them: "Go in peace, keep warm and well fed," but YOU do not give them the necessities for [their] body, of what benefit is it? 17 Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself. 18 Nevertheless, a certain one will say: "You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works." 19 You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected, (1 Peter 2:12) 12 Maintain YOUR conduct fine among the nations, that, in the thing in which they are speaking against YOU as evildoers, they may as a result of YOUR fine works of which they are eyewitnesses glorify God in the day for [his] inspection. Can you read the bible and NOT see that a person MUST demonstrate by their actions {works} that they serve God??? Maybe you don't get it yet. You are insignificant in this whole discussion. You drop the bible on the floor read a bunch of random verses, develop your own theories, about what God wants and then somehow think I'm competing with you The only reason I have continued on in this discussion is because there ARE people who have never really thought about there beliefs and have now had the chance to compare the contrived pagan beliefs you adhere to and what the bible says. The only time you open the bible is to drop it on the floor and hope that a new understanding pops up. Which it apparently has with your recent adjustment on repentance. You say that you have seen little of my demonstration of the fruitage of the spirit. Yet again I am not doing anything to try to impress you. You say I don't talk about Jesus enough. Do you want me to read you a story about Jesus? What you don't know who Jesus is? Is there anyone here who has not heard of Jesus? What else needs to be said about Jesus. Well, I guess the stuff you didn't know about Jesus... He is the SON of God, NOT God himself, He did not ALWAYS exist, he was created and is subordinate to his father. He PREACHED every day of his life to people with no spirituality and told them that REPENTANCE was necessary to gain salvation. He did not say get spiritual and some repentance will grow on you. He condemned the religious hypocrites who thought it was OK to be JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD and still be in God's favor. He died to be a RANSOM not a proxy. There is a difference. He said that anyone who would follow him would DAILY follow Jesus... (Luke 9:23) 23 Then he went on to say to all: "If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake day after day and follow me continually. Not just when you feel like having a holiday. You have not yet ONCE found a scripture to support the selection of one man over another in politics... do you not understand that the bible says to stay free from the world??? You have not once found a scripture to support your pagan rituals of christmas and easter. There is NOT ONE scipture to support having ANY birthday rememberances of ANYONE including Jesus. And hypocrites who claim to serve God but continue to act like the rest of the world are CONDEMNED in the bible. The real Jesus is not the weakling you show hanging on a cross, he is not the helpless baby in a barn, he is not the all forgiving wimp that that forgives everyone for everything because that's his job. Jesus is a mighty King, the Son of God, the reflection of God in all his strength. But you make him out to be some disgusting sissy that shuffles around forgiving everyone no matter how bad they are. The fact is, you don't want to know about the real Jesus. You want the one that you can hang in the living room to make you feel that no matter how much wrong you do, it'll be ok. You worship a symbol of what you think God is. You don't have a hint of a clue as to who God really is. And every time you promote something that is NOT FOUND IN THE BIBLE, you spit in the face of the real Jesus that you claim to care so deeply for. My suggestion to you is to get off of the drugs you are obviously on, shut off the computer and spend a year reading the bible. MAYBE you'll get a clue then. AMEN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 Well we have come full circle, right back to where we started, and are no closer to a resolution. Therefore, I will once again take the high road by making this my last post in this thread. The reason that this will be my last post is, due to your indignation, I realize that at this point our dogmatic battle of ideological discrepencies undermines God's will for humanity. That is to say that I believe continuing would yield results more negative than positive for all involved. You are wrong in so many ways and I am certain that everyone who has read this can see that. You act like "yeah Jesus was created by God and yeah the TRUTH was in Jesus, but I can know and do everything that Jesus did good enough to get into heaven on my own". Yet you have shown yourself to be self centered, hateful and without self control, lashing out with verbal attacks repeatedly. The sad part is that your tongue is your only downfall, but the Bible says that is the greatest measure of unrighteousness. You never once even remotely preached ANYTHING in the spirit of Jesus teachings. Jesus taught with LOVE. So when are you going to step up and be like Jesus? Jesus probably would have had a banshee too, if they made them in 20AD huh? Like I said, you will do what is convenient for you and call it God's WILL but what about the things that YOU ARE NOT DOING?!?!? JESUS WON'T HELP YOU because you won't call on him properly, but Jesus is there for those of us who will. And, as I said before, your lack of intellectual AND spiritual development astounds me for the "office in which you boast". Also, I have vowed not to read your reply because I know that it will not offer anything constructive or truthful. May God's LIGHT burn through your dark cloud of confusion. In Jesus name, Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyman Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 (edited) Well now that that is over, I would like explain a few things that most people can't seem to get straight. #1 God's will. God's will {will is the same as his desire} is... (1 Timothy 2:3, 4) . . . This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. Interestingly enough, accurate knowledge is is linked with salvation. And co-incidentally one of the biggest mistakes many people have been lead to believe is that Jesus is God. But that same scripture continues... (1 Timothy 2:5-6) 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all-[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. Not only was Jesus NOT God almighty, as a human like the rest of us, he wasn't even close. He was also not a proxy, he was a ransom. A proxy is a substitute. Someone who stands in for you when you are not there. A Ransom is a price paid to release someone from captivity. Jesus paid the debt that Adam incurred. That debt was to God. God gave Adam, a perfect man, the opportunity to live forever as long as he obeyed God's simple laws. Because he chose not to, he sold his offspring into slavery to sin... (Romans 5:12) 12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned-. (John 8:34) 34 Jesus answered them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Every doer of sin is a slave of sin. Since Adam gave each of us the birth defect of sin, the only way to be redeemed from sin is for another perfect man to provide it. All the defective people in the world could never compensate for the debt of sin. Like someone who needs a heart transplant, all the defective hearts in the world could never provide the needed help. Based on God's own laws of an eye for an eye, and the laws on redeeming someone from slavery, the payment for a debt or compensation for a loss must be equal. God sent his son to live a faithful life to balance the scales for the offspring of Adam. Because Jesus did remain obedient to God, he paid the ransom. But since everyone is a sinner, the only way to benefit from the ransom is to understand who paid the ransom, and have a faith {remember faith is hope} . It must not be a blind faith, it has to be a faith based on the fact that Jesus paid for your chance to get BACK the everlasting life that Adam threw away, and that he as a human was raised from the dead, thereby proving that his sacrifice had effectively reversed the sin we inherited from Adam. (1 John 2:1-6) 2 My little children, I am writing YOU these things that YOU may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. 2 And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world's. 3 And by this we have the knowledge that we have come to know him, namely, if we continue observing his commandments. 4 He that says: "I have come to know him," and yet is not observing his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in this [person]. 5 But whoever does observe his word, truthfully in this [person] the love of God has been made perfect. By this we have the knowledge that we are in union with him. 6 He that says he remains in union with him is under obligation himself also to go on walking just as that one walked. This scripture shows that Jesus' sacrifice was propitiatory... or one of atonement or to reconcile or bring back together. It was not as the "Passion" movie suggests... that Jesus was just going to stand in for you and take a severe beating instead of you. It is a sacrifice to pay a debt. This scripture also shows that a person who professes to be a christian needs to also FOLLOW chirst continually and not just some fleeting emotional rush. The second thing to consider is that if God was willing to allow his firstborn son to take the lowly position of a human to give humans the hope of getting back something they lost, why would he be so eager to torture those who never knew anything about his son. Wouldn't it make sense to give everyone the chance to take advantage of the sacrifice that he so generously provided? It's not a handout, it's a gift to those who appreciate it and trust in its value. These are simple facts that most who claim to know the bible do not comprehend. It's so simple that bible even says that... (John 8:31-32) 31 And so Jesus went on to say to the Jews that had believed him: "If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples, 32 and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free." An immeasurable freedom both of mind and spirit can be had if you know the truth of the bible and live by that truth. So don't let the stories of burning in Hell keep you from learning about God and what makes HIM happy. Most people feel that there is a force much greater than humans out there somewhere. There is. Just be assured that the God of the bible is not the hate filled monster that many "religious" people make him out to be. Edited May 24, 2005 by Holyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGL Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 Scuuze me while I whip this out..... O4 le, I could care less how many long words you type to make you (or to anyone reading it) seem so intellectually superior to the rest of the world... This "holier than thou" attitude you have , it certainly isnt very Jesus like. He was a preacher to the common man he didnt speak down to others as you do and then claim to be taking the high road Heres one for you since you obviously love symbolism... Just because you bought your bible , doesnt mean you OWN it . May my light of truth burn through your clouded vision of what Jesus was trying trying to accomplish. Just a guess here, I could be wrong , I wasnt there... but I dont think everytime Jesus spoke he ended it by saying " In my name Amen" ...youre killing me with that ! and as you know, thou shalt not kill. But of course this is just my humble little opinion... although I am an agent of satan, my duties are largely ceremonial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 May my light of truth burn through your clouded vision of whatJesus was trying trying to accomplish. But of course this is just my humble little opinion... although I am an agent of satan, my duties are largely ceremonial 373111[/snapback] Well, I didn't read your reply Dave, but when I seen KGL had posted last, I did read his. That's a nice godless heathen of a witness you have there. With friends like that you don't need any enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyman Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 (edited) On Seasame Street {I'm going waaaay back here} they used to have a skit called one of these is not like the other. And they would have 4 things on the screen like 3 bananas and 1 crow bar. It was designed to help children identify the obvious differences between what something looks like and what something really is. Here's an example of someone who claims to be honest... I will once again take the high road by making this my last post in this thread. Yet 3 hours and 12 minutes later he posts again. He has quoted random scripture to try to say how different he is and he even quoted Luke 18:9-14 which says... 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are , extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Now with that scripture in mind let's look at what 04 says about KGL... That's a nice godless heathen of a witness you have there. The fact is that even if KGL is a Satanist, he is humble enough to see that 04 is not supporting the bible. And I will gladly associate with those who have an open heart to what the bible says to do. Even Jesus associated with the publicans {BTW since 04 will never answer this... a publican is a tax collector. Tax collectors were hated at the time because they were told to bring in "x" amount of money for the tax and anything they got above that they could keep. So they often abused people for MUCH more than was actually owed} prostitutes and other sinners in an effort to educate them about God. Because he spent so much time teaching these "lowly" ones, the "higher ups" often accused Jesus of being a drunk and or demonised... (Mark 2:16-17) 16 But the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw he was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, began saying to his disciples: "Does he eat with the tax collectors and sinners?" 17 Upon hearing this Jesus said to them: "Those who are strong do not need a physician, but those who are ill do. I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners." (Matthew 11:18-19) 18 Correspondingly, John came neither eating nor drinking, yet people say, 'He has a demon'; 19 the Son of man did come eating and drinking, still people say, 'Look! A man gluttonous and given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' All the same, wisdom is proved righteous by its works." (John 8:47-50) 47 He that is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why YOU do not listen, because YOU are not from God." 48 In answer the Jews said to him: "Do we not rightly say, You are a Sa Edited May 24, 2005 by Holyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 Well, I have been incouraged to continue by a reply to a PM that I received from RJ. Randy [ Forward PM | Reply ] Personal Message banshee04le Randy, Today, 04:16 AM [Delete Post] I was wondering if you could help me with something. I'm not going to read holyman's last post unless there could possibly be some glimmer of hope. I was wondering if you could tell me if he has posted anything different than his rehearsed rhetoric? Also, I know my delivery of the Word has not strictly adhered to the loving examples of Jesus, but was hoping you would council me, on anything I presented, that you may have perceived as questionable in content. Thank you. Mike Re:Randy [ Forward PM | Reply ] Personal Message rjvoight Re:Randy, Today, 07:16 AM [Delete Post] No sweat, I am a little behind on the posts since I was out of town. I will look over them and get back to you. Mike, you are doing a fine job against someone who thinks he has everything right and interperets the bible in a way to strengthen his argument. He ignores content and context of passages and does not look at the entire Bible as one intertwined explanation of salvation. He focuses on works and what he or we need to do to get ourselves into heaven. If you are saved, as I have said in the past their will be fruit but who are we to judge how much fruit is suitable for any other person? God uses us all according to our God given abilities. Anyway, just keep turning his conversations away from himself and works and back to Jesus Christ and the plan of Salvation. I will be praying for you dude, take care and I will catch up with in a day or so after I review the thread. RJV Holyman posted: 04 has constantly shown that HE is the one that has the wisdom...QUOTE May my light of truth burn through your clouded vision of what Jesus was trying trying to accomplish. underscore added. I think that this was INTENTIONAL deception on your part. Anyone can look up on this very page and see that it was your godless witness, who only spoke up because he has no humility and was offended because I am presenting an argument more scholastically than he would be capable of, is the one who said (making a pun on what I said) "my light of truth". If you look up, it is plain to see that I said "God's light of truth". Either way, I deserve an explanation and apology for this. But again, that would require humility which you know nothing of. So what? Just an honost mistake was it Dave? If you wish, RJ and I will continue to humiliate you so that maybe you can learn some humility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalegoldston Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 Not to be ignorant or anything. But do you both believe each other will end up in the same place in the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyman Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 Not to be ignorant or anything. But do you both believe each other will end up in the same place in the end? No not really. 04 thinks he will be in heaven when he dies and I hope that I will be remembered by God when I die. I will not presume to say how, or if God will reward or not reward. One thing is for sure, none of us will be roasting in hell. 04's ME ME ME attitude is evident thru out. Here's another example... ...I will continue to humiliate you so that maybe you can learn some humility....04... You have slandered me but you have not humiliated me. If you could come up with some scriptures to back your beliefs, I would gladly be humbled by the scriptures. But instead of using the bible, you are attempting to "school" me as if I would need to humble myself to you in order to learn the bible. You are exactly like the Pharisees. You want the glory for yourself instead of giving the glory to God. When are you going to open your bible? When will you see that your faith is worthless because you want to be glorified in front of people for what you know. (John 12:42-43) 42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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