EASTER

[Holyman]

Through the Holy Spirit, the witnesses for God and Christ are admonishing YOU Dave, or did you forget:

Deuteronomy 19:15

One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

 

Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause. For they speak not peace: but they devise deceitful matters against them that are quiet in the land. Yeah, they opened their mouth wide against me, and said, Aha, aha, our eye hath seen it. This thou hast seen, O Lord keep not silence: Lord, be not far from me. Stir up thyself and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God and my Lord.  Judge me O Lord my God, according to thy righteousness; and let them not rejoice over me. Let them not say in their hearts, Ah, so would we have it: let them not say, We have swallowed him up. Let them be ashamed and brought to confusion together that rejoice at mine hurt: let them be clothed with shame and dishounour that magnify themselves against me. Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the Lord be magnified, which hath pleasure in the posperity of his servant. And my tongue shall speak of thy righteousness and of thy praise all the day long.

366660[/snapback]

So is that your final answer to these questions...

#1 So all of that pontificating you did about the King James version being the only real bible wasn't true then right? Or are you changing your mind on that?

 

#2 What part of the books of Matthew and Mark that I'm quoting has anything to do with the Mosaic law?

Mt 10:22... 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mt 24:13... 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13... 13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

#3 What??? No retort for #3?

 

#4 You still have not shown me from the bible what it is like to be saved. Surely if being saved is something that every Christian must experience, then the bible will explain what it's like.

 

#5 You say Hitler was not lead by the Holy Spirit. But how do you know. He was never expelled from the Catholic Church, he professed to be a Christian his entire life AND he claimed to be saved. You also said that the leaders of this world are selected by God. How is it that you and Hitler have the same experience but you say he was not lead by the spirit? If he's saved, then he's OK in your book. Right??? Or do you now have a different opinion?

 

And when you say that Jesus is "in" you, are you saying that you are Jesus?

 

And when you say I blasphemed, how did I do that? When I called Easter {the very name is Pagan} a pagan holiday? I somehow did something wrong by exposing your involvement in a Satanic sex ritual?

And check out this rambling double talk... "I have been led to many passages that have justified my life since that day but those details are between me and God and I will never dishonor God in the name of Christ but I will just say that I am where I need to be, when I need to be there."

 

... I am where I need to be, when I need to be there.

WOW now that's deep.

[banshee04le]

I already answered the questions that warranted a response Dave and yes, this is where we are at now:

Through the Holy Spirit, the witnesses for God and Christ are admonishing YOU Dave, or did you forget:

Deuteronomy 19:15

One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

 

OK rj, now your turn...

It seems you and 04le are parting ways on how a person should live once they have dedicated themselves to God.

This is another "deceitful matter that you have devised".

 

Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause. For they speak not peace: but they devise deceitful matters against them that are quiet in the land. Yeah, they opened their mouth wide against me, and said, Aha, aha, our eye hath seen it. This thou hast seen, O Lord keep not silence: Lord, be not far from me. Stir up thyself and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God and my Lord. Judge me O Lord my God, according to thy righteousness; and let them not rejoice over me. Let them not say in their hearts, Ah, so would we have it: let them not say, We have swallowed him up. Let them be ashamed and brought to confusion together that rejoice at mine hurt: let them be clothed with shame and dishounour that magnify themselves against me. Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the Lord be magnified, which hath pleasure in the posperity of his servant. And my tongue shall speak of thy righteousness and of thy praise all the day long.

[Holyman]

04, you just told me the Mosaic Law is no longer valid and then you quote the Mosaic Law to me and tell me I'm being deceitful.

You quote random scriptures that have nothing to do with the subject and then you put an AMEN at the end like that somehow makes it apply.

You are like those TV preachers why wave the bible and scream and rant but who never teach anything and have no idea what they are talking about.

I'll demonstrate... what is a "publican"? What is a "jot or one tittle" and "Raca"?

Mt 5:18, 22 post 199.

 

And once you're done with that, tell me why you are hassling me about my beliefs when I am saved just like you are. How is it you think that you know whether I'm saved or not when it is God who does the saving.

 

And when you're done with that, maybe you can address these simple questions...

#1 You say my bible is wrong but you never criticize rj's translation.

#2 You say the bible is important and you should live by it but the only important part is the "your saved" part.

#3 You say that God loves everyone even those who sin but then he tortures them for ever.

You admitted {as I recall} that faith wothout works is dead but somehow you say that faith without works is not only OK but works are only to be done as an example. But Jesus himself said that you must show the same powerful works if you will have faith... John 14:12,21... 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

#4 I'm also wondering where you guys get the idea what being saved is like. Is there some scripture that says you will have some deep emotional feeling when you're saved? The only thing I can find is that the one who endures to the end will be saved. Which end do you think that is?

#5 It is a well known fact that Hitler accepted who and what he was and accepted what Christ did and yet he murdered, raped and pillaged millions of people and negatively effected the entire world. DOES all of his horror mean nothing if he had that same emotional rush you guys had when you were "saved"?

 

OK everyone now let's watch 04 dance around the issues again.

 

 

 

Oh yeah I forgot to say... AMEN.

[locogato11283]

holy shit this is still going on??? this is one of the longest posts on HQ and its about religion... carry on....

[banshee04le]

Like I said Dave, I already addressed all of your questions that warranted an answer...they are on the previous page and are very succinct and too the point.

My concerns are a little about you but more about those whom you will corrupt in your encounters. Nevertheless, for understandable yet unfortunate reasons, you are not receptive to the Holy Spirit.

The bottom line is that you DO NOT preach the gospel of Christ, and for that the Bible says that you will have no excuse come judgement day since you have been given fair opportunity to repent, which you have never done, since you had to ask about the emotional response associated with TRUE repentance.

It was interesting insight when you said that you dedicated yourself to research, some time ago, in an effort to essentially take Christ down a notch instead of lifting him up as the Bible says that you should do. Anyway, good luck with your deeds sinner.

 

RJ we have (you especially) done God's work, planted the seed where it could be fertily received. I am confident that his sheeps clothing has been stripped away. I propose that we stop here and no longer dignify him with a response and allow him to crawl around naked on his belly before us all for as long as he so chooses. I will continue to pray for him but his revileings are counterproductive at this point.

 

Please pm me if you feel otherwise.

 

The floors all yours Dave but I am CERTAIN everyone is tired of hearing your ramblings.

 

 

 

Holyman

Apr 2 2005, 03:57 AM

Post #68

 

(Mark 3:28-29) 28 Truly I say to YOU that all things will be forgiven the sons of men, no matter what sins and blasphemies they blasphemously commit. 29 However, whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of everlasting sin.". . .

 

(Hebrews 10:26-29) 26 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. 28 Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. 29 Of how much more severe a punishment, do YOU think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt?

 

sooo... care to revise that?

 

Take a good long look in the mirror Dave.

[Holyman]

04...

You really don't know the answers do you???

I'll give a summary of what you don't know...

jot, tittle, Raca, publican. These words obviously mean something to you but you have no idea what they mean.

You still have not explained why rj's version of the bible is OK when it is not the only true translation that God somehow revealed to King James. And co-incidentally the one you use.

You still have not explained where you came up with the daffy idea that as long as you have faith {remember faith = hope} you no longer need to do anything else but wait to go to heaven.

You still have not explained how God, who is love, somehow feels the necessity to torture the disobedient for all eternity.

You have still not found a single solitary scripture or even a hint of a scripture that explains what it feels like to be saved. Instead you say you will feel it in your heart, which has been proven to be treacherous and deceitful.

You have still not explained how maniacs who claim to be saved and have gone on to murder, rape and pillage are still in God's favor. You have even implied that such psycos have been selected by God to carry out these demonic activities.

You have blamed me for relying on the law of Moses and then in the next breath you have condemned me by the same laws of Moses you say were done away with.

You have time and again said that only God knows if someone is repentant and at the same time you have decided that I am not repentant.

You have even gone so far as to claim that Jesus is in you. Making yourself equal with God. Are you now denying that you have put yourself in God's throne of judgement? Are you still denying that a persons actions say what they are? You have 2 stepped, side stepped and danced around every accusation you have made and all because you have not read the bible you claim to be so fond of. And because you have rendered your God given conscience useless, because you are too afraid to actually do and live by God's commands, your actions convict you. You have repeatedly taken the seat of judgement and condemend me and anyone else who may agree with what the bible says, to your imaginary pit of fire.

The split personality of your demonic god has no foundation even in the least in the bible. And it doesn't matter which translation you use, you will not find the vindictive, hateful, vengeful, wicked and yet pushover God you worship. The God you claim to worship exists only in the imaginations of the hypocrites who stand in front of your church and threaten you with endless torture while they rape your children in the basement and demand 1/10 of your wages to support their lazy butts while they drive around in luxury cars and go to remote properties they extorted from those who don't know enough to make sure that what they are hearing makes sense. So the pearls of biblical wisdom have been wasted on you. You have adopted and promoted the teachings of Satan who wants nothing more than to pervert who God really is and what people NEED to do to gain salvation. Your unscriptural view of God... that he is a raging demon who wants to torture people and who at the same time thinks so little of his own standards that he forgives and rewards anyone who has an emotional experience yet continues to ignore his laws, is accomplishing the Devils purposes quite well.

And here is why you don't understand... (John 8:42-47) 42 Jesus said to them: "If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth. 43 Why is it YOU do not know what I am speaking? Because YOU cannot listen to my word. 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell the truth, YOU do not believe me. 46 Who of YOU convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it YOU do not believe me? 47 He that is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why YOU do not listen, because YOU are not from God."

So while you sit there and profess to be one with Jesus, you spit in his face and on everything he did when he was on earth. And in spite of all that, you will never burn or be tortured in your imaginary hell. You will live, believe what you want, and have faith in that wild imagination of yours, and when you die, you'll be dead. And it will be God's decision if he wants you after that.

And since you have now signed off from this posting, I am happy to be able to finally be able to bring anyone who has ANY questions about God, salvation, eternity or ANYTHING else in the bible, to the bible where the answers to ALL of mankinds problems are.

[rebelbanshee2]

And when you say I blasphemed, how did I do that? When I called Easter {the very name is Pagan} a pagan holiday? I somehow did something wrong by exposing your involvement in a Satanic sex ritual?

 

hmmm I gotta pay attention more..I must have missed the whole pagan sex ritual part in our easter service this year. maybe its because I was too busy celebrating our saviors resurection! But maybe next year Ill just sit Christmas and Easter out...maybe my birthday too, I might accidentally pay homage to satan!

[Holyman]

(2 Corinthians 11:12-20) 12 Now what I am doing I will still do, that I may cut off the pretext from those who are wanting a pretext for being found equal to us in the office of which they boast. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works. 16 I say again, Let no man think I am unreasonable. Still, if YOU really do, accept me even if as unreasonable, that I too may do some little boasting. 17 What I speak I speak, not after the Lord's example, but as in unreasonableness, in this cocksureness peculiar to boasting. 18 Since many are boasting according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19 For YOU gladly put up with the unreasonable persons, seeing YOU are reasonable. 20 In fact, YOU put up with whoever enslaves YOU, whoever devours [what YOU have], whoever grabs [what YOU have], whoever exalts himself over [YOU], whoever strikes YOU in the face.

 

Maybe one day there will be a celebration where it'll be ok to pee on fallen soldiers graves. What a great day of respect that will be. Until then you can go to your pagan festival and think it's OK. Afterall it's not about what God wants, it's all about what you "believe" God wants.

[banshee04le]

I will praise thee O Lord, with my whole heart; I will shew forth all thy marvellous works. I will be glad and rejoice in thee: I will sing praise to thy name, O thou most High. When mine enemies are turned back, they shall fall and perish at thy presence. For thou hast maintained my right and my cause; thou satest in the throne judging right. Thou hast rebuked the heathen, thou hast destroyed the wicked, thou hast put out their name for ever and ever. O thou enemy, destructions are come to a perpetual end: and thou hast destroyed cities; their memorial is perished with them. But the Lord shall endure for ever: he hath prepared his throne for judgment. And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness. The Lord also will be a refuge for the oppressed, a refuge in times of trouble. And they that know thy name will put thier trust in thee: for thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek thee. Sing praises to the Lord, which dwelleth in Zion: declare among the people his doings. When he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble. Have mercy upon me, O Lord; consider my trouble which I suffer of them that hate me, thou that liftest me up from the gates of death: That I may shew forth all thy praise in the gates of the daughter of Zion: I will rejoice in thy salvation. The heathen are sunk down in the pit that they made: in the net which they hid is their own foot taken. The Lord is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah. The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. For the needy shall not always be forgotten: the expectation of the poor shall not perish for ever. Arise, O Lord. let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight. Put them in fear, O Lord: that the nations may know themselves to be but men. Selah.

[Holyman]

When he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble.

Another one of your random scriptures or are you trying to make another unfounded baseless points?

[banshee04le]

2 Corinthians 13

1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. 2 I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare: 3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you. 4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you. 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. 7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. 8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. 9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection. 10 Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction. 11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. 12 Greet one another with an holy kiss. 13 All the saints salute you.14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

 

My denomination is the same as yours and rj's... Christian...why you are hassling me about my beliefs when I am saved just like you are

 

*Is the Jehovah's Witness religion Christian?

 

The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. The Bible itself reveals those doctrines that are essential to the Christian faith. They are 1) the Deity of Christ, 2) Salvation by Grace, and 3) Resurrection of Christ, and the gospel. These are the doctrines the Bible says are necessary. Though there are many other important doctrines, these three are the only ones that are declared by Scripture to be essential. A non-regenerate person, or a cultist (i.e., Mormon or Jehovah's Witness), will deny one or more of these essential doctrines. Jehovah witnesses deny the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. This alone makes it non-Christian. To support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness theology), has even altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings.

Typical with cults that use the Bible to support its position is a host of interpretive errors:

 

* Taking verses out of their immediate context.

* Refusing to read verses in the entire biblical context.

* Inserting their theological presuppositions into the text.

* Altering the Biblical text to suit their needs.

* Latching onto one verse to interpret a host of others.

* Changing the meanings of words.

* Proclaiming some passages to be figurative when they contradict their doctrines.

* Adding to the Word of God.

 

As a Jehovah's Witness you have been taught from the Bible and the Watchtower organization. You

[Holyman]

That's an interesting read. Well it shows you are capable of research but like most people in your frame of mind, you would rather go outside the bible to find something that fits your pre-conceived ideas of hatred instead of actually looking into the bible.

You quoted a website that bashes Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses. WOW that's some deep learning there. What you did accomplish though is another dance routine. After all this, you still didn't answer any of my questions with the bible. Don't you see a problem with that?

Second of all, you have missed the mark again because I have told you time and time again that the only way to be saved is thru the grace. But since you would rather look up negative things on the internet to feed your obvious hatred for people who don't agree with you, let me educate you from the bible.

The word grace comes from the greek word charis. This excerpt if found in Strong's Concordance which gives an explanation of each word in the original Greek or Hebrew and gives humble people the chance to actually understand what the bible is saying...

5485 - charis (khar'-ece) : from 5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):--acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).

This shows, as I have said a million times, that salvation is a gift from God that CANNOT be earned. A gift is FREE. A wage is EARNED. No matter what we do, we cannot earn salvation. But to show God that we appreciate and have faith in {remember faith = hope} his gift, we should do all we can to obey him even in the smallest aspects of life.

2nd, the bible says that Jesus is a God... Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

There is NO denying that, because there it is in writing.

Notice here which word is rendered "God"... 6 For'H3588 unto us a child'H3206 is born,'H3205 unto us a son'H1121 is given:'H5414 and the government'H4951 shall be upon'H5921 his shoulder:'H7926 and his name'H8034 shall be'H1961 called'H7121 Wonderful,'H6382 Counselor,'H3289 The mighty'H1368 God,'H410 The everlasting'H5703 Father,'H1 The Prince'H8269 of Peace.'H7965

That means... 410 - el (ale) : shortened from 352; strength; as adjective, mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity):--God (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might(-y one), power, strong. Compare names in "-el."

So the word can mean Almighty God or any other diety. In fact if you are concerned enough about your beliefs to actually learn from the bible, you will see in the CONTEXT of these scriptures that the english language does not express the kind of subtlety that the original Hebrew has. We use the word "god" or "God" to mean many things but the Hebrew expresses the difference between Almighty God and a god.

DEUTERONOMY 7:9 Know{H3045} therefore that{H3588} the LORD{H3068} thy God,{H430} he{H1931} [is] God,{H430} the faithful{H539} God,{H410} which keepeth{H8104} covenant{H1285} and mercy{H2617} with them that love{H157} him and keep{H8104} his commandments{H4687} to a thousand{H505} generations;{H1755}

 

DEUTERONOMY 7:21 Thou shalt not{H3808} be frightened{H6206} at{H4480, 6440} them: for{H3588} the LORD{H3068} thy God{H430} [is] among{H7130} you, a mighty{H1419} God{H410} and terrible.{H3372}

 

DEUTERONOMY 10:17 For{H3588} the LORD{H3068} your God{H430} [is] God{H430} of gods,{H430} and Lord{H113} of lords,{H113} a great{H1419} God,{H410} a mighty,{H1368} and a terrible,{H3372} which{H834} regardeth{H5375} not{H3808} persons,{H6440} nor{H3808} taketh{H3947} reward:{H7810}

 

Notice that the word "god" has both H430 and H410 next to it in each scripture. If you pay attention to the CONTEXT, you will see why there is a difference. H410 is a General god. Like saying Jimi Hendrix was a god. Obviously he was not almighty God. He was a god of what he did and what he stood for. He was above all the others but still well below the real and actual God of all things. The definition of H430 is... 430 - elohiym (el-o-heem) : plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:--angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

 

Even this does not make an entry that relates to H430 a reference to the one and only almighty God. The King James version explains who the true God is... Psalm 83...

16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.

17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:

18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

I'm sure you didn't know your own bible uses the real name of god.

Anyway as you can see the name Jehovah and LORD in all caps are the same word, H3068... 16 Fill'H4390 their faces'H6440 with shame;'H7036 that they may seek'H1245 thy name,'H8034 O LORD.'H3068

17 Let them be confounded'H954 and troubled'H926 forever;'H5704, 5703 yea, let them be put to shame,'H2659 and perish:'H6

18 That men may know'H3045 that'H3588 thou,'H859 whose name'H8034 alone'H905 is JEHOVAH,'H3068 art the most high'H5945 over'H5921 all'H3605 the earth.'H776

So when you do get around to cracking the bible open, make sure you understand that when the LORD is in all caps, it means the one and only God. When it is Lord capitalized, it is Jesus. You could have learned this if you read the preface or the appendix of the King James bible that you claim to know so much about.

 

The resurrection is also a proven fact... Acts 10:... 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

If Jesus did not die a complete death like any other human and get a complete resurrection to heaven, then the entire bible is a waste of paper. The whole bible stands on the FACT of the resurrection and without it, the bible is nothing.

 

So you can continue to believe in whatever God you want to believe in. But know this, the God you support is a hateful, deceitful, malicious god that works against everything that the loving creator stands for. And just because you found some hate based website against Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses, doesn't make it right. Everyone knows that you can find hate based websites on anything. And for the sake of equal billing, here are links to the official websites of both religions so people with open minds can decide for themselves... WWW.Mormon.org , WWW.Watchtower.org

[banshee04le]

*The Jehovah's Witnesses was begun by Charles Taze Russell in 1872. He was born on February 16, 1852, the son of Joseph L. and Anna Eliza Russell. He had great difficulty in dealing with the doctrine of eternal hell fire and in his studies came to deny not only eternal punishment, but also the Trinity, and the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. When Russell was 18, he organized a Bible class in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. In 1879 he sought to popularize his aberrant ideas on doctrine. He co-published The Herald of the Morning magazine with its founder, N. H. Barbour and by 1884 Russell controlled the publication and renamed it The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom, and founded Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society (now known as the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society). The first edition of The Watchtower magazine was only 6,000 copies each month. Today the Witnesses' publishing complex in Brooklyn, New York, churns out 100,000 books and 800,000 copies of its two magazines--daily!

Russell claimed that the Bible could be only understood according to his interpretations. A dangerous arrangement since he controlled what was written in the Watchtower magazine. This kind of assertion is typical among leaders of cult religions.

After the death of Russell on Oct. 31, 1916, a Missouri lawyer named Joseph Franklin Rutherford took over the presidency of the Watch Tower Society which was known then as the International Bible Students Association. In 1931 he changed the name of the organization to "The Jehovah's Witnesses."

After Rutherford's death, Nathan Knorr took over. After Knorr, Frederick William Franz became president.

The Society was led by Mr. Henschel who died in 2003. The group has over 4 million members world wide. The Watchtower Society statistics indicate that 740 house calls are required to recruit each of the nearly 200,000 new members who join every year.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have several

[tats4life]

wtf.............

[banshee04le]

Encyclopedia.com

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God

Section: Names for God

Related: Greek Religions

 

In the Old Testament various names for God are used. YHWH is the most celebrated of these; the Hebrews considered the name ineffable and, in reading, substituted the name Adonai [my Lord]. The ineffable name, or tetragrammaton [Gr.,=four-letter form], is of unknown origin; the reconstruction Jehovah was based on a mistake, and the form Yahweh is not now regarded as reliable. The name Jah occurring in names such as Elijah is a form of YHWH. The most common name for God in the Old Testament is Elohim, a plural form, but used as a singular when speaking of God. The name El, not connected with Elohim, is also used, especially in proper names, e.g., Elijah. The name Shaddai, used with other words and in names (e.g., Zurishaddai ), appears rarely. Of these names only Adonai has a satisfactory etymology. It is generally not possible to tell from English translations of the Bible what was the exact form of the name of God in the original. In Islam, the name of God is Allah .

 

 

Thats what it says Dave. I didn't write it. Check it yourself .

Notice Jesus is not listed. That's because no Christian with the truth would say that Jesus was God. Jesus was endowed with the Holy Spirit through Divine intervention and therefore lived a perfect life of God's will becuase God so loved the world that he essentially put forth a test for mankind and he that seeks him shall be saved. HE is the TRUTH. The Holy Spirit is still alive and he who accurately stands on the word of God with faith can be filled with it. As I said, you cast of the Holy Spirit when (not if) you sin again. However, the Holy Spirit still has the key to heart and you are saved (delivered) as long as you don't change the lock.

 

Anyway, no hard feelings, I haven't been stumbled in the least, and I hope that you haven't either. If you have been, that's what you get for coming in this thread and trying to stumble us Christians.

 

The very short history of your religion is wrought with inconsistancies and false prophecy. I can elaborate on that if you wish.

 

Encyclopedia.com

 

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God

Section: Arguments for God's Existence

Related: Greek Religions

 

There are several famous arguments for the existence of God. The argument from the First Cause maintains that since in the world every effect has its cause behind it (and every actuality its potentiality), the first effect (and first actuality) in the world must have had its cause (and potentiality), which was in itself both cause and effect (and potentiality and actuality), i.e., God. The cosmological argument maintains that since the world, and all that is in it, seems to have no necessary or absolute (nonrelative) existence, an independent existence (God) must be implied for the world as the explanation of its relations.

 

The teleological argument maintains that, since from a comprehensive view of nature and the world everything seems to exist according to a certain great plan, a planner (God) must be postulated. The ontological argument maintains that since the human conception of God is the highest conception humanly possible and since the highest conception humanly possible must have existence as one attribute, God must exist. Immanuel Kant believed that he refuted these arguments by showing that existence is no part of the content of an idea. This principle has become very important in contemporary philosophy, particularly in existentialism. The consensus among theologians is that the existence of God must in some way be accepted on faith.

 

Examine the ancient prophecies (respecting Christ and there fulfilment) and historical evidence and then grab a Bible. If you don't already belong to a church, you don't need to. Read and search for meaning on your own. Later you may wish to seek fellowship with others who have found the same truths as you, or you may choose to maintain a private relationship with God . You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. You want to know what the price is for "everything to gain"?

A GREAT DEBT OF GRATITUDE.

 

 

 

 

So uhhhhh, anyway...here's my banshee