SHNaY Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I started to pull the old girl apart and was going to do a few mods. Well friends came over and it turned into a HUGE project (the girlfriend now realizes I love the banshee more than her) I tore her down to the frame and got it powder coated. Got new shocks, swingarm, axle, and lotsa billet/chrome parts and its slowly going back together. I want to do it right and make it nice but im DIEING to go riding. The front a-arms are crap so I want to get some new ones but I am getting broke quick. I want something nice and I am a bit confused on HEIM joints or the old covered ball joints. I ride in sand and dirt and wonder about the heims. Being all open dont they wear out quicker? They just look so much weaker but thats why I am here to get someone elses view. Once its all together I will post some pics and have many parts off the bike for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledofthezep Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 the girlfriend now realizes I love the banshee more than her And you say it like that's a bad thing...best to be honest from the beginning. You may try a search, there's quite the controversy in heims vs. ball joints. Anymore more people are going with replaceable ball joints. I run heim style LS a-arms, and my good friend who builds sandrails for a living swears by heims & uses them on all of his sandcars. As long as you keep shit clean & lubed, I don't think either is really soo much better than the other to the average weekend warrior. What arms are you considering? Hope this helps somewhat... And, Welcome to bansheehq! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUSH THE THROTTLE Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 ^^^What he said. Welcome to the HQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEVER SATISFIED Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 WELCOME TO HQ... EVERYONE ON HERE IS AWESOME SO ASK AROUND... BUT STEMING FROM SANDCARS AND NOW QUADS.. HEIMS SEEM TO BE THE THING. I DO BELIEVE YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY WHICH IS BETTER THEN THE OTHER I THINK ONE HAS LESS MAINTENCE WHICH IS THE HEIMS.... I BUILD LIFT KITS FOR FULL SIZE TRUCKS AND WE USE ALL HEIMS FOR STRENGTH AND DURABILTY AND THEY LAST MUCH MUCH LONGER (WE'VE FOUND) THEN THE FACTORY BALL JOINTS... THEN AGAIN THERE ISNT THE STRESS LEVEL ON QUADS JOINTS AS TRUCKS SO AS LONG AS YOU KEEP EITHER LUBED UP I THINK YOUR FINE TO WHICHEVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintoxicated Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 (edited) Balljoints are sealed and Heims are not, I hear that Heims will wear down much quicker than balljoints in the sand due to this. Sand gets in the heims joint and grinds them down fairly quickly. I'm lookign for A-arms with balljoints myself. I don't think I'll be putting enough force directly on the Balljoints to notice the difference in strength. I don't plan on getting 30 feet of vertical air anytime soon. Custom Creations also had some interesting setup that was supposedly stronger than balljoints and but not exposed like Heims. Maybe Dunedeamon can elaborate? Edited March 10, 2005 by Justintoxicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton eyed Joe Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Balljoints are sealed and Heims are not, I hear that Heims will wear down much quicker than balljoints in the sand due to this. Sand gets in the heims joint and grinds them down fairly quickly. I'm lookign for A-arms with balljoints myself. I don't think I'll be putting enough force directly on the Balljoints to notice the difference in strength. I don't plan on getting 30 feet of vertical air anytime soon. Custom Creations also had some interesting setup that was supposedly stronger than balljoints and but not exposed like Heims. Maybe Dunedeamon can elaborate? 336974[/snapback] I'm doing some prototyping with my +2+1 a-arms, and HEIM rod ends look to be strong enough, and honestly aren't that expensive to replace. Granted they aren't sealed like a ball joint, and you must consider that if its something you feel like replacing when it needs it, and if you get a HEIM with a grease zyrk, the load ratings don't apply due to reduced surface area on the ball portion of the rod end. It has a grease line milled around the race so the grease can flow around it. So we won't be using the greasable rod ends anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHNaY Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I am leaning more toward the sealed ball joints. I need a good quality arm with a sealed ball joint I found these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=4526883150 which I am considering if I can get them either in chrome or the matching candy red I got my swingarm done in. I am waiting for the seller to respond now. The frame and swingarm back from the powder coating. INSIDE the house where all banshee's should sleep. I was tempted to sleep with her that night. And one of her in the garage slowly going back together. Yea I know the garage is a mess I just moved and had this project going on as well and the banshee is more important than cleaning up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDD Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 In my opinion both have their place. I believe heims should have a thru bolt... as is the case with adjustable upper a-arms. I don't believe heims are designed to have side pressure applied to a stud like the spindle mount. Once sand starts to wear the open ball in a heim the joint will get sloppy and will eventually fall out. Ball joints are bigger/heavier but require almost nothing to maintain them. They both have the same shear point where the cup attaaches to the bolt portion. If you want adjustability (I don't know anyone that adjusts the camber/caster once it's set) then go with the heims. If you want to bolt on and go get ball joints. Just remember to lube the heims from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintoxicated Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I'm doing some prototyping with my +2+1 a-arms, and HEIM rod ends look to be strong enough, and honestly aren't that expensive to replace. Granted they aren't sealed like a ball joint, and you must consider that if its something you feel like replacing when it needs it, and if you get a HEIM with a grease zyrk, the load ratings don't apply due to reduced surface area on the ball portion of the rod end. It has a grease line milled around the race so the grease can flow around it. So we won't be using the greasable rod ends anytime soon. 336987[/snapback] I don't believe they were greasable heims, they were different all together. hey looked pretty damn nice on Dunedeamon's quad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHNaY Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Anyone have any places that sell high quality chrome a-arms with sealed joints for dirt cheap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro189 Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 for the price of thoes arms i woulld buy quicksand a arms. i just talked to gary at quicksand and he said they have run the heim joints on their baja quads, and have about 3000 miles on them , and they are just starting to show wear. i just ordered a set for $520 shipped. i have heard that heim is a stronger and more duraable joint any way good luck, and nice looking quad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkenaround Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 I researched the difference before I bought and the difference is heim standard for atv joins will take 17000 p.s.i. pressure and ball joints will take 26000. Heim joints allow for more articulation but are not sealed therefore require either more maintenance or earlier replacement. However the bonus is that heims can be purchased very cheaply from jeg's or summit and do not require reaming of the spindle. I opted for the Heim just because they are not a special order piece and allow more adjustability. I bought the cheapest cro-moly arms I could find with heim joints from vlfj (ebay i.d.) Full flight racing for $415 shipped http://photobucket.com/albums/y32/munkenaround/ for my pics of installed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton eyed Joe Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 I researched the difference before I bought and the difference is heim standard for atv joins will take 17000 p.s.i. pressure and ball joints will take 26000. Heim joints allow for more articulation but are not sealed therefore require either more maintenance or earlier replacement. However the bonus is that heims can be purchased very cheaply from jeg's or summit and do not require reaming of the spindle. I opted for the Heim just because they are not a special order piece and allow more adjustability. I bought the cheapest cro-moly arms I could find with heim joints from vlfj (ebay i.d.) Full flight racing for $415 shipped http://photobucket.com/albums/y32/munkenaround/ for my pics of installed 337215[/snapback] Thats what I liked about the HEIM rod ends. I am making my own tapered stud that will fit the banshee steering knuckle, and when the time comes, I can just make a different stud to fit a different taper for a different bike rather than try to find a ball joint with a similar taper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHNaY Posted March 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Is there any reason I wouldnt be able to switch out the Heims for sealed ball joints on the Quicksand A-arms? I found numberous sealed ball joints that fit into the spindles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Justin, if im not mistaken, Blaines a-arms use a uniball design which is different and superior in every possible way. you should relly check into these things, they are bad ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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