Social Security

[Justintoxicated]

Well, I

Edited March 2, 2005 by Justintoxicated

[Holyman]

Well I can't comment of Minn but everyone who has even thought of running Illinois has been corrupt. Well except for Abe Lincoln.

I think one of the biggest problems is people as whole get used to corruption and because they see everyone else doing it, they feel that they need to do it too and so since we're all doing it to some extent, it's easier to just do it a little bit more. For example, I feel that Bush has out and out lied about some very important things. Alot of people will say "sure he has but he had to because fill in the blank". I find it hard to understand why the "most powerful man in the world" would need to lie about anything. Lying is deception. It is a false, wrong and/or inaccurate statement made to make people think the opposite way of reality. How is that beneficial?

Now alot of can gripe about SS but the priciples it was based on are very good. The problem comes in when people are dishonest. They lie about their disabilities, hardships etc. and they rationalize that they deserve what they have stolen. A poor single mother may think that she is entitled to these payments because her parents were uneducated, the uneducated may feel that they deserve these payments because they were prejudiced against, those who are prejudiced may feel that it is ok to cheat on their taxes because they had to work harder to support those who are uneducated.

If you look closely you will see that it's all a cycle and the foundation for the cycle is personal corruption that has infected the populace. And here's the second part of the problem... distrust. People rationalize that they can trust themselves to do the right thing but they can't trust the next guy to do the right thing so why should they make the change and put themselves at a disadvantage. Their kids then learn that it's ok to be dishonest and the corruption becomes more deeply engrained. The problems of society are across the board and in my opinion will never make any permanent improvements for the better.

[Holyman]

This should keep this thread going for awhile, what are some of the issues that you feel Bush lied about?

332383[/snapback]

I feel that most people are dishonest on some level... myself included.

But I feel the more a person has to lose or gain, the more they will lie. I don't have much to lose and I hold myself to a very high level of integrity so I make every effort to be honest. If there is some mis-information that comes from me, it is completely accidental.

Bush on the other hand is an oil baron, from a family of oil barons. An oil baron in office has been a long time coming so he has alot to lose. I think he lied about knowing about September 11, I think he lied about WMD's, I think he manipulated the election to get into office to begin with and as far as I'm concerned, if his lips are moving, he's lying.

The fox is in the hen house and the fox may say he's a vegetarian and he may be. But he will always be a fox and fox's looove chicken.

The thing about Abe too is probably true. Yet after all this time, he is still called honest Abe. What will they say about bush?

[Fireman-hott]

That bush had some balls in it?

 

The CIA gave misinformation to him, he thought it was correct therefore he did not lie about WMDs. Secondly goto Glamis and lay a mini fridge in the desert then come back a month later and tell me you can just point and know where it is without any markers.

 

Manipulated the election, same shit they said 4 years ago. He won get over it. And by an even larger margin. I guess he just got better at the manipulation?

 

Clinton missed all the shit happening and let it slide. So nows it uis Bushs' fault 9/11 happened.

[Holyman]

The CIA gave misinformation to him, he thought it was correct therefore he did not lie about WMDs.

Then the responsable persons should be tried for treason and promptly executed.

Secondly go to Glamis and lay a mini fridge in the desert then come back a month later and tell me you can just point and know where it is without any markers.

Well as an uneducated white boy from Chicago who has never been in enough sand to lose sight of the parking lot, it would be almost impossible. For the wealthiest country in the world with the highest level of technology, satallite imaging, GPS and WEAPONS INSPECTORS with specialized machines to find WMD's crawling all over the friggin' place, there is no excuse for ignorance.

Clinton missed all the shit happening and let it slide.  So nows it uis Bushs' fault 9/11 happened.

Now you're starting to understand

[KGL]

The thing about Abe too is probably true. Yet after all this time, he is still called honest Abe. What will they say about bush?

 

Ask someone in the middleast in 20 years and they will probably call him their savior...

So what would Bush have to gain if "he knew about 9-11 before it happened"?

and also about the wmd's...please elaborate.

If a CIA informant should be executed for misinformation , what should we do with Clinton for giving nuke material to N. Korea?

Justin if people are dedicated to their goals they will accomplish them, the problem is you have to sacrifice and work for it, and thats why "everyone isnt doing it"...

Sure there are poor people here , but there are also groups/programs coming out the ass to assist them...

Edited March 4, 2005 by KGL

[Holyman]

Ask someone in the middleast in 20 years and they will probably call him their savior...

You may be right. After all the American Indians sure are loving all the past "white devils who speak with forked tongue" who invaded their home and put them all in exile, murdered their wives and children and stole all of their natural resources.

 

So what would Bush have to gain if "he knew about 9-11 before it happened"?

This really is a valid question. If Bush was a decent person, he would have prevented it and much of the country would have denied it was going to happen and would have called him alarmist. By sitting there and doing nothing, he was able to sacrifice a few thousand lives and generate a nation of people to support increased arms spending {which nets his buddies millions of dollars a day} and the paranoid fits in this country that would produce such stupidity as the need to keep duct tape and plastic sheeting to seal up your home from terrorist attacks. And because he says he can help, millions of people have put faith in a greedy fool who is nothing more than a man like the rest of us.

and also about the wmd's...please elaborate.

What else do you want to know?

If a CIA informant should be executed for misinformation , what should we do with Clinton for giving nuke material to N. Korea?

He should be executed too. I have no double standard and I have no party affiliation. Politicians must be held to the highest standard of US law and international law.

Justin if people are dedicated to their goals they will accomplish them, the problem is you have to sacrifice and work for it, and thats why "everyone isnt doing it"...

Sure there are poor people here , but there are also groups/programs coming out the ass to assist them...

Edited March 4, 2005 by Holyman

[KGL]

You may be right. After all the American Indians sure are loving all the past "white devils who speak with forked tongue" who invaded their home and put them all in exile, murdered their wives and children and stole all of their natural resources. "

 

Name a civilization that was formed with "peace and love"...

 

," millions of people have put faith in a greedy fool who is nothing more than a man like the rest of us."

 

Well youre half right, its because people TRUST the president that he was elected and re-elected... pessimism just doesnt sell , ask John Kerry.

So Bush let people die on 9-11 to make money huh? I seriously hope you dont

really buy into that.

I want to know why Bush would have to lie about WMD's as it was only one of several reasons for going into Iraq?...or 14 if you ask the U.N.

As for your scenario's of being poor,widowed, etc... show me where I ever said it would be "easy" to recover... I was pointing out that there are alot more opportunities here than other countries not to mention family members and church groups to provide assistance.

I have worked for everything I have and it is this spirit that makes our country great , so no matter what the circumstances I would "shake it off" and make the best of it... Im not willing to be a victom of reality.

[Holyman]

Name a civilization that was formed with "peace and love"... 

You've got a point there. I guess all the successful nationbuilding in the world is successful because "peace and love" is just tried too often and has simply failed too many times. In fact it has been such a calamitous failure that I can't think of it every being tried once during my 38 years of life. I do however appreciate the great success of death, murder and mayhem. And the "violence for the greater good" mentality really should be adopted by all. You have really opened my eyes. I realize now that it's better to live in a violent world where shootings and killings abound since this is the basis for "civilization" than in a world where dumb ol' peace and love are the preferred methods of establishing "civilization".

Well youre half right, its because people TRUST the president that he was elected and re-elected... pessimism just doesnt sell , ask John Kerry.

I'm not convinced that the people who voted for bush trust him. Many people who were polled voted for bush to give him the chance to "clean up the mess he started in the middle east".

So Bush let people die on 9-11 to make money huh? I seriously hope you dont

really buy into that.

I want to know why Bush would have to lie about WMD's as it was only one of several reasons for going into Iraq?...or 14 if you ask the U.N.

Yes I do seriously believe that bush would allow people to die on 911. Bush is the leader... the Commander in Chief of the military of this country. As such, he is sworn to protect the interests of the military and to use the resourses at hand to further his purposes. So far he has sent well over 1000 soldiers, men and women, to die in the incursion into Iraq and thousands more soldiers permantly injured. In addition to this it is said that over 100,000 innocent civilians have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is over and above the numbers that would have been killed by the oppressive regimes that were already in those countries. So in short, his job is sacrificing lives. Which UN was it that gave those reasons? Was it the one run by Hans Blix who had the longest duration over there as a weapons inspector and who said there were no weapons? Or was it the UN that advised bush not to invade a sovreign country because it is against international law, or was it the UN that bush said was useless and had no control over any decisions he was going to make?

As for your scenario's of being poor,widowed, etc... show me where I ever said it would be "easy" to recover... I was pointing out that there are alot more opportunities here than other countries not to mention family members and church groups to provide assistance.

I have worked for everything I have and it is this spirit that makes our country great , so no matter what the circumstances I would "shake it off" and make the best of it.

I'm glad you are not stupid enough to say it would be easy. No thinking person would say it is easy. And sure there are more options in this country than others. But isn't that the way it should be? Can you imagine a kid with rich parents not having enough food to eat or having to go live under a bridge. Citizens of the richest country in the world should have more benefits than every other country in the world. That being said, I want you to show us how it's done. I want you to take a couple days to locate the resources and develop the plan on how you will not just survive but successfully propel your broke family to being self suficient with money in the bank and the kids on the way to financial security.

So here it is... You are a 35 year old white female that lives in the suburbs of a large metro area {you get to pick... LA, NY, Dallas, ST Louis, Miami etc.}. You have a part time job at a quick mart during school hours when the kids are at school. You make $7 an hour. You have no marketable work skills. You have $800 in the bank, your home is worth $75,000 you owe $60,000 on the house, $4,000 in credit card debt, you owe $2,000 on your family car and it did not pass the state emissins test. If you get stopped, your license will be suspended. Your husband {your highschool sweetheart and the only friend you have in the world} has just died after extensive health care with no insurance and you owe $20,000 in medical bills and burial expenses. You have 3 kids aged 6, 8, 10 that are healthy. You smoke a joint every couple days to relax, you weigh 211 pounds and you take cholesterol medication that costs $50 per week. Your utilities are $100 a month for phone, gas and electric. You are atheist and feel that all religions are child molesters. Your house payment, car payment, C card payment are due in 2 weeks and you need to pay for your prescription and groceries. Your family is all dead and your husbands parents diowned him and the kids because you and your late husband were drug users and they always said this would happen.

You've got 2 weeks to pull yourself together.

... Im not willing to be a victom of reality

It seems you have a problem with reality all together.

[KGL]

Yes I do seriously believe that bush would allow people to die on 911. Bush is the leader... the Commander in Chief of the military of this country. As such, he is sworn to protect the interests of the military and to use the resourses at hand to further his purposes. So far he has sent well over 1000 soldiers, men and women, to die in the incursion into Iraq and thousands more soldiers permantly injured. In addition to this it is said that over 100,000 innocent civilians have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is over and above the numbers that would have been killed by the oppressive regimes that were already in those countries. So in short, his job is sacrificing lives

It seems you have a problem with reality all together.

 

Wow you should really think about writing childrens books... fantasy can be fun .

The president is sworn to protect the people , not the military... and those servicemen who you obviously take for granted signed up for military service ,no matter where it may be... its called honor, suprised you never heard of it.

Also funny how that relates to your "peace and love" sarcastibation up there, should the Iraqi people have maybe complimented Saddam to death? maybe then he wouldnt have gassed so many Kurds? (which by the way# over 100,000)

Luckily when Hitler was around we didnt have someone that shares your views running the show.

[Holyman]

The president is sworn to protect the people , not the military... and those servicemen who you obviously take for granted signed up for military service ,no matter where it may be... its called honor, suprised you never heard of it.

The president is the commander of the military. This guy wasn't even fit to be the commander of a business. Now if you put the average failed "entrepenaur" in charge of the biggest pot o gold in the world, who is he going to be interested in protecting? Only those who are sworn to sacrifice themselves to keep him in office. I never take the military for granted. In fact I would rather reserve their use for problems that are bonafide and not some wild goose chase in the desert based on bush's person crusade. BTW where the heck is Bin Laden? maybe he's golfing with bush on his ranch? Anyway... I may need some help with your definition of honor though. What part of this relates to honor? Are you calling volunteering honor? or is sacrifice honor? Maybe obedience is honor? You tell me.

[KGL]

Actually I should clarify that the president is sworn to protect the constitution and the constitution is what directs the Govt. to protect the people...

Soldiers are honoring thier country and fellow citizens by serving .

[KGL]

hmmmm, and from the N.Y. Times no less..... maybe theyll print their retraction about Bush lying in the next issue...

[Nightrider]

Regardless,we never found WMD's,probably because there never was any.

 

Just like the story of saddams capture,manifested to win the peoples support and drive the war effort.

 

They tell us what they we want to hear and some people are dumb enough to believe it.

 

You want to talk about fantasies,our goverment is creating one as we speak.Its not just Bush,although he is Mr. Roarke so to speak.

 

Do they really think everyone is ignorant enough to belive the shit they try to pass off on us?

 

Who's next?China,maybe Iran and what will be the reason,liberation.Yea right.The only thing they want to liberate is oil and eliminate anyone who's ideals don't fit ours.

Edited March 15, 2005 by Nightrider

[Holyman]

Dr. Araji said equipment capable of making parts for missiles as well as chemical, biological and nuclear arms was missing from 8 or 10 sites that were the heart of Iraq's dormant program on unconventional weapons. After the invasion, occupation forces found no unconventional arms, and C.I.A. inspectors concluded that the effort had been largely abandoned after the Persian Gulf war in 1991.

I guess it's better to trust the CIA than some guy who was part of the fallen regime who is trying to make himself seem useful.

 

 

BTW KGL... What have you done in your first week as a widowed woman to help your family? You only have 6 days left