Banshee0028 Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 This is for A-Ams of course Some a-amrs I see like QS, are hemi joints and most others are ball joints. It seems like the hemi's are stronger and better. So it seems like this is an obvious choice for hemi unless there is more to it than this?? Any drawbacks to the hemi's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 HEIM. a hemi is a motor. as to the question, if both are the proper size and strength rating. its just personal pref. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee0028 Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 HEIM. a hemi is a motor. as to the question, if both are the proper size and strength rating. its just personal pref. 285110[/snapback] Sorry, Heim joint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 HEIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsyi Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 (edited) Heim joints CAN BE stronger assuming you arnt using a dinky wink little heim. The term "heim" came from the company H.G. Heim that was granted the patents for the design. Heim joints date back to WWII. Germans used these rod ends on their planes. Heims started out being used on airplanes but soon became used in the power transmission industry. There are currently over 15 US companies that produce these types of rod ends. They range from stamped steel ends to stainless steel ones. The 17-4 PH stainless rod ends are prob the strongest of rod ends. If your links are going to see a lot of side load you'll want to avoid using a heim as this will wear them out quickly. Heims are less likely to bind up compared to ball joints which are limited to the amount they can move.. The whole thing about using heims and mounting them is very important. A heim mounted in double shear means that the heim joint has mounting material on both sides of it with a bolt passing through it all. The shear stress that passes through the heim joint then is passed onto the bolt. If the bolt is mounted in a double shear mount, then the stress goes through more than one point of the bolt. There is more than one plane for the force to go through. A single shear mount only has one plane for the force to be transfered through adn thus is weaker than a double shear mount of the same size. The double shear is stronger than a single shear BUT if you use a large enough bolt ia single shear mount shouldnt be a problem. With very little wear on a heim it is possible for it to pop out. where as the ball joint would have to wear a humongous hole for it to pop out...but would most likely break with a little play....uh...i think thats all for now....oh ya btw heims DO need to be maintained and checked more so than ball joints.....ball joints having a boot keeps them out of contact with the sand, dirt, blah blah blah that heims are more likely to see. I guess you could relate these two to an O-Ring chain vs. a Non O-Ring chain.... the non o-ring CAN last as long as an o-ring chain if maintained and lubed properly..... Edited November 26, 2004 by jsyi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsyi Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Oh ya I forgot to add....from what i've heard ASR uses' some real crappy heims on their upper arms......If you get arms I'd go with quicksand....i've heard good stuff bouts them....plus I got a real anal friend taht just ordered a set....he wouldnt order em if he didnt thkn they were worthy.....oh ya but also cuz they were more in his price range.... dont cry matt if you read this:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNBRAD Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 They do offer boots for heim joints now. They are pretty trick looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock_fuzzy_69 Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 jansen offers set of rubber boots for there a arms i do believe that you can buy a set of the rubber covers form the chassis shop as well i remember a guy on here linking us toa place that sold race car fabrication stuff there cat had every rod end assesory you coudl ever imagine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klotzban1 Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Oh ya I forgot to add....from what i've heard ASR uses' some real crappy heims on their upper arms......If you get arms I'd go with quicksand....i've heard good stuff bouts them....plus I got a real anal friend taht just ordered a set....he wouldnt order em if he didnt thkn they were worthy.....oh ya but also cuz they were more in his price range.... dont cry matt if you read this:) 285182[/snapback] My ASR uppers are in great shape and had them for quite a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txblueshee Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Oh ya I forgot to add....from what i've heard ASR uses' some real crappy heims on their upper arms......If you get arms I'd go with quicksand....i've heard good stuff bouts them....plus I got a real anal friend taht just ordered a set....he wouldnt order em if he didnt thkn they were worthy.....oh ya but also cuz they were more in his price range.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klotzban1 Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Oh ya I forgot to add....from what i've heard ASR uses' some real crappy heims on their upper arms......If you get arms I'd go with quicksand....i've heard good stuff bouts them....plus I got a real anal friend taht just ordered a set....he wouldnt order em if he didnt thkn they were worthy.....oh ya but also cuz they were more in his price range.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee0028 Posted November 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 Heim joints CAN BE stronger assuming you arnt using a dinky wink little heim. The term "heim" came from the company H.G. Heim that was granted the patents for the design. Heim joints date back to WWII. Germans used these rod ends on their planes. Heims started out being used on airplanes but soon became used in the power transmission industry. There are currently over 15 US companies that produce these types of rod ends. They range from stamped steel ends to stainless steel ones. The 17-4 PH stainless rod ends are prob the strongest of rod ends. If your links are going to see a lot of side load you'll want to avoid using a heim as this will wear them out quickly. Heims are less likely to bind up compared to ball joints which are limited to the amount they can move.. The whole thing about using heims and mounting them is very important. A heim mounted in double shear means that the heim joint has mounting material on both sides of it with a bolt passing through it all. The shear stress that passes through the heim joint then is passed onto the bolt. If the bolt is mounted in a double shear mount, then the stress goes through more than one point of the bolt. There is more than one plane for the force to go through. A single shear mount only has one plane for the force to be transfered through adn thus is weaker than a double shear mount of the same size. The double shear is stronger than a single shear BUT if you use a large enough bolt ia single shear mount shouldnt be a problem. With very little wear on a heim it is possible for it to pop out. where as the ball joint would have to wear a humongous hole for it to pop out...but would most likely break with a little play....uh...i think thats all for now....oh ya btw heims DO need to be maintained and checked more so than ball joints.....ball joints having a boot keeps them out of contact with the sand, dirt, blah blah blah that heims are more likely to see. I guess you could relate these two to an O-Ring chain vs. a Non O-Ring chain.... the non o-ring CAN last as long as an o-ring chain if maintained and lubed properly..... 285180[/snapback] jsyi, great info man. I think that is everything I ever wanted to know about Heim joints .... I think I am going to look into them some more before deciding....However if I do get them it would def be from QS.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandornothing Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 Ive ran the ASR's all season, and for the price their pretty damn slick (heims, structure, bolt grade, ect). Ive crashed twice and got away with only a bent front rim. Yes, everyone says they are cheap, but mine are holding their own compared to the stock setup.You do have to blow them out with compressed air when youre done riding for the day or else that little nylon sleeve inside the heim wont last. Yeah, sure theyre crap compared to what Gust or Ellis runs on their bikes, but not everyone can shit out that kind of money. Arms, heims, hardware, tie rods, brake lines, warranty (probably B.S.), all this under 400.00 shipped to your door from that dude on ebay. Im not trying to advertise, just trying to make a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klotzban1 Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 Ive ran the ASR's all season, and for the price their pretty damn slick (heims, structure, bolt grade, ect). Ive crashed twice and got away with only a bent front rim. Yes, everyone says they are cheap, but mine are holding their own compared to the stock setup.You do have to blow them out with compressed air when youre done riding for the day or else that little nylon sleeve inside the heim wont last. Yeah, sure theyre crap compared to what Gust or Ellis runs on their bikes, but not everyone can shit out that kind of money. Arms, heims, hardware, tie rods, brake lines, warranty (probably B.S.), all this under 400.00 shipped to your door from that dude on ebay. Im not trying to advertise, just trying to make a point. 285825[/snapback] I agree....My ASRs' are great for me and what my budget allows. All the riding I do puts these to work and I am amazed everytime. To me ...the ASRs' are perfect and built stronger than stock, but not to those who swear by Lonestar....or Houser and etc. roost on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 We're not going to be mounting a heim in double shear on anyting on a Banshee. You can get a teflon lined Rod end (Heim joint) to last just as long as a Ball joint. However, on the end of an A-Arm, you must use what is called a "high angle" rod end. Otherwise, the rod end will bind when the suspension cycles. This could be changed by re-designing the outer knuckle, and rotating the rod end 90 degres. But now, we have alot of side loads that will rear their ugly heads.... IMHO, it's 6 1/2 dozen to the other...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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