banshee370 Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Denny: Sarcastic or not your comments are unwarranted.... Do you have any idea why there are so FEW (1) long travel kits for the banshee? (especially out of ALL the manufacturers) The frame and suspension on the banshee are set op completely wrong... And I honestly dont see anyone selling one thinking that it is a real long travel design. What do you think ? Have you ever known me to hang out with Dave Gibson ? Im willing to bet companies like LSR and Houser put in just as much R&D as Gibson did. Explain please. Tig welded 4130 chromoly is tig welded 4130 chromoly is tig welded 4130 chromoly Sure they ALL do/did.... but why is it that the Gibson LT set up is the ONLY one on the market that has ZERO bumpsteer? And thats even running zero degree camber. Now tell me that bumpsteer doesnt matter in racing. I also didnt discount anyone elses R&D... No two a-arms are the same, and I would never compare them as so.... So if I just grabbed some 4130 and a tig they would be just as good as Quicksand's or Gibson or Roll? I'd be willing to bet w/ my backround and knowledge that I could make some a-arms.... So is that the same? As for costs.... Roll Lobo II with shocks are 2995.00 while Gibson's w/ TOP of the line Axis shocks are like 2400.00.... guess they arent the most expensive now... Nobody uses Gibson's LT for racing in the woods, they're strictly MX arms. I wonder why ? The reason not too many people use LT setups in XC is because of body roll... and they arent designed for that purpose in mind. These are set up to be wide and low... Not what one would want for XC. I dont think I've ever seen any pros in GNC or GNCC running Quicksand's..... I wonder why? Does that mean they arent any good? No. I think they make some great products........ Im not trying to start a pissing match...... Id just rather inform people so that they can make an educated decision on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 i sure wish they had a site for the gibson products so we could all see how pretty they are.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 (edited) Sarcastic or not your comments are unwarranted.... Ok, lets break this down so we are all clear. What did I say that was so unwarranted ? That Gibson arms are for "wealthy racers"? That is such a true statement..... because 1: They cost $1100 a set. I want everyones opinion on this question. Are $1100 dollar A-arms on the low end or high end of the A-arm price scale ? 2:They are made for racers. I want everyones opinion on this one too. How many people do you know personally that are trail riding, dune'ing or basically rececreational type riding... with Gibson long travel A-arms ? They are expensive and they are built for racing. warrented statement. The frame and suspension on the banshee are set op completely wrong... And I honestly dont see anyone selling one thinking that it is a real long travel design. Walter I couldnt agree more with you. Im not complaining that Gibson doesnt make Banshee LT arms. Im not questioning why they don't either, I fully understand the differences in the Banshees chassis and a 250r based racing chassis. And I can also understand why Gibson and ALL the big A-arm builders don't bother with Banshee parts, Banshees are not ideal MX or XC ATV's and the chassis setup mentioned earlier. So if I just grabbed some 4130 and a tig they would be just as good as Quicksand's or Gibson or Roll? I'd be willing to bet w/ my backround and knowledge that I could make some a-arms.... So is that the same? Are you implying that I am stoopid ?? I'll betcha we both could fab a nice set of YFZ450 A-arms, very similar to all the big name builders arms..... and we could charge $200 for em to cover the material cost to build em... or we could charge $1100, $200 towards materials and $900 towards R&D, labor and advertising. Gibson, Roll, Houser, Lonestar and a ton of others charge alot of money for thier parts. And they're worth it..... if you can afford it. To me...... $1100 is expensive no matter what the product. As for costs.... Roll Lobo II with shocks are 2995.00 while Gibson's w/ TOP of the line Axis shocks are like 2400.00.... guess they arent the most expensive now... Roll is outta control.... do you all know what Roll charges for a frame\arms\stem and swingarm ??? Someone take a guess. BTW Rolls not makin' frames anymore. QUOTE: Nobody uses Gibson's LT for racing in the woods, they're strictly MX arms. I wonder why ? The reason not too many people use LT setups in XC is because of body roll... and they arent designed for that purpose in mind. These are set up to be wide and low... Not what one would want for XC. I dont think I've ever seen any pros in GNC or GNCC running Quicksand's..... I wonder why? Does that mean they arent any good? No. I think they make some great products........ Walter EVERYONE uses LT arms for GNCC racing. Ballance, Borich and Smiley all use ARS\Fx, Yokley and DuVall both use Roll Lobo, they're all using 18.5 inch shocks. And they are low.... not wide tho, they're setup around 45 inches wide, but they're low, not MX style low, but lower than a stock setups ground clearance. Thats why ARS\fx arms have been such a big hit this past season, they're LT arms with an arch in the lower arms for more ground clearance. A reverse Gullwing design if you will.... similar to Gibsons lower arm. They're not cheap either, I heard $1300 a set for ARS\fx. Jerimiah Jones is MX racing with ARS\Fx arms. All the big named long travel A-arms are expensive as hell and designed with the racer in mind. warrented statement. Im not trying to start a pissing match...... Id just rather inform people so that they can make an educated decision on their own. When I first posted in this thread, my intentions were to inform people also, and it seems to me like you got very defensive and there's nothing wrong with agruing your point back. But frankly nothing I said wasnt true and I never meant to "start a pissing match". Im just a very mellow dude with an open mind who likes to bullshit about kwads. There's nothing more that I despise than an internet pissing match. If you felt offended because I didn't support Gibson's products, Im sorry bout that. I know your pals with the K&K crew and thats cool and all. I have no personal vendetta against K&K, ECATV or the Gibson products. K&K is a well respected vendor in the ATV MX scene and so is ECATV. John Natalie used Gibson arms last season and finished in second place overall. Edited December 10, 2004 by Meat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 (edited) i sure wish they had a site for the gibson products so we could all see how pretty they are.... http://www.eastcoastatv.com http://www.kandkatv.com Edited December 10, 2004 by Meat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 oh wait..look what i found.. http://www.gibsonatvracing.com/ wow what a nice site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tithead Posted December 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 oh wait..look what i found..http://www.gibsonatvracing.com/ wow what a nice site 291382[/snapback] so brooke, when are you going to tell them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilgf Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Nice Job you made on the Gibson site Brooke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tithead Posted December 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Nice Job you made on the Gibson site Brooke. 291571[/snapback] damn right! its lookin good! i like my picture to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 oh wait..look what i found..http://www.gibsonatvracing.com/ wow what a nice site 291382[/snapback] That's an awesome website. I bet the girl who made that is really hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 sorry sorry, i had to fill my shameless self promotion quota for the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 sorry sorry, i had to fill my shameless self promotion quota for the week. 291592[/snapback] Nice work on that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee370 Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Denny: Upon further research.... here is what I found out... The Roll and Walsh LT a-arms are more expensive than the Gibson's. Also.... another reason why every one elses are cheaper is that they use Ball joints (that will limit travel) and are also much cheaper to produce. Gibson has always used a high quality Spherical ends w/ heavy duty heim joints. If you notice... Eyeball, LSR, Houser, and denton all use cheaper automotive grade ball joints. The higher end arms all use Spherical ends. Cant compare apples to oranges I guess. Right there I see the cost difference between the others... Does that make them superior? Or worth it.... All depends on your pockets and how serious you are about racing. As for ARS/FX. They are produced by the owner of Custom Axis... and everyone in XC is running them because they were given to them.. Who wouldnt run a free set of a-arms? And they too are more expensive than Gibson's..... Sorry if I took things to heart.. I just cant see ripping on a product/company and comparing them like a corvette to a cavalier. An honest comparison would be the eyeball's (725.00-cheapest) to the Houser's (950.00-most expensive). I'd give my left nut for a true LT setup for my shee.... but since there isnt one... and I cant afford one... It's all good. And kick ass job on the site Brooke..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 The Roll and Walsh LT a-arms are more expensive than the Gibson's. Yea like I said before, Roll's outta control with thier prices. Nothing Roll Design is cheap. There's a good story on Walsh Racecraft in this month ATVSport. Walsh is locatd up around your end of the world Walt, I think they're from Connenicut. Gibson has always used a high quality Spherical ends w/ heavy duty heim joints. Yea Iv always been partial to Heims myself. You'd think heims would work even better when your using them in a set of LT arms. Alot of builders are using heims on thier tie rods end tho, i'd like to try something like that. As for ARS/FX.....everyone in XC is running them because they were given to them.. All the Pro riders and prolly some Pro Am riders are getting free arms.... LoneStar is givin' em to Traci Cecco, Yokley and Gust are gettin' free Roll arms.. borich ballance and smiley are gettin' free ASR\fx arms. That is why.... I must start my tremendous racing career ASAP. Free parts must be great. Borichs entire quad was built by his sponsors, they even supply the base quad, multiple quads in fact. Its crazy. And they too are more expensive than Gibson's..... yea no doubt, I heard something to the tune of $1300 a set . Did you read the thread about our very own "Holyman" might be the bearing supplier for RPM? RPM long travel arms aren't on the market yet, but they're costing around $2000 a set. Its crazy. To alot of people droppin' a grand on set A-arms is nothing, guys like Blue Doosh I just cant see ripping on a product/company I think they're expensive, if thats rippin' on em so be it. We banshee guys are used to shelling out $500 for a good set of A-arms, see'ing arms for $1000 is shock. To me $1000 is alot of money no matter what your spending it on. I never said anything crazy like "Gibson makes a bad product". I rike em arot. They're a work of art and I can appreciate the bends and the heims and how they work and the success of racers like Wimmer and Natalie. They're both great guys, I met em both at the Rausch Creek 6 hr race. Wimmer is just a pup, he's got alot of good racing years ahead of him, keep an eye on that racer. His team came in second place at that race. They were a team of MX racers racing a mostly XC track and they came in second place overall, thats pretty damn good. I'd give my left nut for a true LT setup for my shee.... but since there isnt one... and I cant afford one... It's all good. Walter.... if you build it.... they will come. I think you aughta develop the first true long travel arms for the Banshee riders. I'd be the first one to buy a set, maybe we could work out a sponsorship deal . You would sell a million sets. I mean literally a million sets. Do you have a tig and a bender !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 (edited) one or 2 more things..... Brooke, the site came out really really good, and Walter I seen Gibson makes a MX and XC a-arm, you should talk to the K&K guys about venturing into the GNCC scene more. I thing GNCC sponsorships would sell more product than GNC racing would. They're getting like 500 racers signing up for a single gncc race, every race. Its popular cause its riding\racing the trails just like most east coaster do when they're recreational riding. Its the best spectator sport ever !! You can walk right along side the entire 8-9 mile track, pro racers inches away flyin through the woods, bogging down in mud and climbing these big nasty hills. Gibson aughta favor XC racing too, he's a fellow pennsylvanian. All the best GNCC racers come from eastern PA ECATV is\was Chris Borich's biggest sponsor. Edited December 11, 2004 by Meat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanddevil111 Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 My LSR front end has 10 inches of travel with 15 1/2 inch long shocks. My old LOBO bike had almost 16 inches of travel with 19 1/4 inch long shocks. But with a long travel front end you have to run a 4+1 offset wheel so the lower arm doesn't hit the rim. If you got any questions about LT front ends...shoot me a pm...I'll do my best to help out. 282975[/snapback] thats what i was thinkin too.. now correct me if im wrong which im not sure if i am or not but Long travel a-arms arent any wider they just move the shock mout a lil bit and they put a bend in the arm right. cus sometimes they dont look wider just a whole hell of alot taller. well not all the time iguess cus the k&k quads are pretty low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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