Passion Racing?

[Big Blue]

In consideration to everyone having problems with their jetting and the talk about different domes, has anyone tried getting a set of domes cut for their specific motor? if not it would definetly be worth a try.

[23champ]

Well first lets see he mentioned that they all have different heads. And something about different carbs being ordered. Then that the one that all of the sudden ran good was left to sit. ( meaning that no one tweaked on it ) The other two, who knows the way this story is going. So you say only weather change ? Well the only one that we can say that was effected by the weather was the one left to sit. Rock on Bro !!!! Man the variables are never ending the domes in each head, the carbs, the timing. He says set-up idetical but he mentions the differances. So that tells me that they are not identical !!! Just my opionion. Also don't forget fuel and oil mix. Man like I said it will never end.

The weather in Kansas doesn't change much from July to August. An average temp for those two months is about 85 to 95. Right now it is around 60 degrees and my bros bike still runs great.. no dead spots.. thats a 30 degree drop. Pretty sure it wasn't the weather

 

As for the heads.... I guess i should have went with a trinity head like my bro because they must put some sort of magic potion into their.... 22cc DOMES!!! that Vito's forgot

[dlnoss]

There is a lot more to a dome than just the volume. The characteristics of the power are certainly affected by the geometry and clearances. I've not seen a Trinity or a Vito dome. Does the Trinity head motor rev out as well?

[PassionRE]

Champ the fact that just sitting over a month and suddenly runs good really proves the point that jetting is the issue with the other motors. Throw in the equation of different domes and sizes really mixes things up and each bike will have to dealt with individually, your better off ignoring what fixes another bike unless everything is exactly the same..pipes,carbs,domes on and on .The weather changes, humidity,temp, baro pressure all play a part in this. That is why the mysterious jetting God payed a visit to the storage shed. As far as domes are concerned, not just the cc spec is messing with you. Squish clearance, squish band width and squish angle are big parts of this. Daves "special cut domes are a good "average" of these specs. I've played with the specs and this dome covers a broad range of engines with a good margin of detonation protection.. Dave is in the "average" biz if you will. Obviously a custom built dome for every application, and I mean down to the exact bore size, carbs cc size, operational rpm, etc. etc. is best, its just not practical from a manufacturing standpoint. Have you ever tuned in ESPN and watched a 250GP race? If you were there, the first thing you would notice would be the distinct smell of racing castor in the air. After, that you would notice about 12 guys standing around the bike in the pits in red jump suits. Those guys primary goal is to pick up on residual snatch that tends to hang around the riders, their primary responsibility is to keep that bike tuned. And believe me, it takes that much brain power to do it.

As for your motors, those are far from a drag port engines. With the addition of the stroker crank and the changes it plays in the transfer ports, a minimum of exhaust port area is needed to maintain the operational range of the transfer ports themselves. Thus additional rmp is the result...that's where that top-end is coming from. Those 3 motors are pump gas motors and it plays a huge part in the broadness of your powerband. All of the marketed pipes for Banshee's, even the worst of the worst, are highly effective expansion chambers. The more effective the chamber with high compression brings on detonation risks. In order to keep your engine from shelling with modern pipes, keeping compression relatively low is a easy way to deal with it...the only problem is, your going to give up bottom end. Pump gas motors are a builders nightmare. I mean you really want to give the guy the power he's looking for you just don't want a pile of molten aluminum showing up in your mailbox with a nasty letter 3 weeks later. Im really conservative in this area just because of that . The good news, I knew that before I built your engines and it was designed around it. HP is very addictive and almost everyone is never fully quenched. Those motors can be run down to 17cc domes safely with the addition of race gas. If you want the balls to drop on your motor, start adding compression, and advance the timing up to 4 degrees...you'll find the broadness your looking for. If you decide to do it without increasing octane, hold on to your wallet and don't send that molten box of ugliness to me....Jim

[Oilsmoke]

30 degree jump in temp can make up to 3 size main jet change.

 

let's say your rich and 90 degree outside temp. 2 month later it's 60 outside and your Shee runs alot better than you know you are rich if it runs better in colder than hot weather. Common Jetting tool.

Edited October 16, 2004 by Oilsmoke

[locogato11283]

id have to disagree on the jetting issue. if the jetting has been the same fomr several months now then jetting is not the problem. the summer here was 85 to 95 which is typical. now its down to 50s during the day. if he hasnt changed his jetting and it still runs fine then how much of a part is jetting really playing in this equation? i dont buy it. 23 champ, has he messed with the jetting at all since this summer? if not then i guess i need a more in depth explanation on how it could be the jetting.

[23champ]

About the jetting/weather.. All i'm saying is the temp increased about five degree during the time it was sitting in the shop. He pulled it out, fired it up, and it ran like a top. Still runs great, and has ever since. It has gone through various altittude changes and temp changes and nothing seems to affect it now. I mean it started running great at 90 degrees and, its now 50 degreese outside and it still runs great (although, Im sure its probably running a little lean now). Seems weird

 

Dude, I ain't tryin to dog you out, I know you know your shit. I've just been a little frustrated(sp) with the jetting aspect lately. I have sat down a looked over keihins avalible needle jets for the PWK and figured out the chart, and what i need, and came to the assmption that there was no way to get the correct jetting with what i was working with, as far as parts go. Sure, I spent a lot of time changing mains, pilots, and needle clips, and never got anywhere. I was tring to fix the problem with the parts I knew how to work with. I have always been able to jet everything in by using the existing parts. This thing is totally different, I need a different length on the needle, along with a differnt diameter needle. I hopefully can find a solution to the problem now that i have learned the whole function of the needle jet and what area(s) it affects. I think I fucked up by ordering those slides, Im pretty sure the needles Im gonna order are gonna do the trick.

[23champ]

sorry, I forgot to quote that last post. It was directed at jim

[23champ]

30 degree jump in temp can make up to 3 size main jet change.

 

let's say your rich and 90 degree outside temp. 2 month later it's 60 outside and your Shee runs alot better than you know you are rich if it runs better in colder than hot weather. Common Jetting tool.

Don't think you under stood me right, It was 90 when it stared running good. it is now 50 and it still runs good. No changes have been made to the bike.

 

By the way, if the temp changes 30 degrees and you have to make a three size drop in your main, you are probably gonna have to change more than just the main (for correct jetting). Come on jetting tool

[Oilsmoke]

Agreed You mostly need to add some fuel in the pilots by turning them in alittle and drop the clip one slot. if you where spot on in the hotter temp.

 

and I did misunderstand that post. My bad.

Edited October 16, 2004 by Oilsmoke

[locogato11283]

23 champ, i have 2 other sets of needles for the 35mm carbs and neither did the trick. they are one leaner and one richer needle tapers. dont know if thats what you are going for.

[23champ]

23 champ, i have 2 other sets of needles for the 35mm carbs and neither did the trick. they are one leaner and one richer needle tapers. dont know if thats what you are going for.

 

Loco,

Are they CGK and EGK? That should be the letters for the taper. Standard is a DGK. I'm looking for a DGM or a DGH. I just put a DGL in it but I can't really tell a difference, because its so cold out. The L1 or "clip position" part of the needle is too lean right now because of the temp outside. So actually for winter time I need Either a DEG or a DEM.

 

I can't tell if the dead spot is from being too rich or lean. I wish there was a Dyno around here. I'm sure trying to tune in a controlled environment is much easier. With the temp changing so much right now I cant tell if I goin the right way or the wrong

[locogato11283]

23 champ, i have 2 other sets of needles for the 35mm carbs and neither did the trick. they are one leaner and one richer needle tapers. dont know if thats what you are going for.

 

Loco,

Are they CGK and EGK? That should be the letters for the taper. Standard is a DGK. I'm looking for a DGM or a DGH. I just put a DGL in it but I can't really tell a difference, because its so cold out. The L1 or "clip position" part of the needle is too lean right now because of the temp outside. So actually for winter time I need Either a DEG or a DEM.

 

I can't tell if the dead spot is from being too rich or lean. I wish there was a Dyno around here. I'm sure trying to tune in a controlled environment is much easier. With the temp changing so much right now I cant tell if I goin the right way or the wrong

yea those are the ones i have i think. neither one made any bit of difference. wheres the closest dyno at anyway???

[23champ]

23 champ, i have 2 other sets of needles for the 35mm carbs and neither did the trick. they are one leaner and one richer needle tapers. dont know if thats what you are going for.

 

Loco,

Are they CGK and EGK? That should be the letters for the taper. Standard is a DGK. I'm looking for a DGM or a DGH. I just put a DGL in it but I can't really tell a difference, because its so cold out. The L1 or "clip position" part of the needle is too lean right now because of the temp outside. So actually for winter time I need Either a DEG or a DEM.

 

I can't tell if the dead spot is from being too rich or lean. I wish there was a Dyno around here. I'm sure trying to tune in a controlled environment is much easier. With the temp changing so much right now I cant tell if I goin the right way or the wrong

yea those are the ones i have i think. neither one made any bit of difference. wheres the closest dyno at anyway???

I was just gettin ready to ask you the same thing. There is one at St. Joe Harley ,but they will only run harleys on it. I'm sure there is one in KC somewhere. If it would just warm up to about 70 it would be no problem.

[locogato11283]

I was just gettin ready to ask you the same thing. There is one at St. Joe Harley ,but they will only run harleys on it. I'm sure there is one in KC somewhere. If it would just warm up to about 70 it would be no problem.

yea i dont think theirs is even big enough to put a 4 wheeler in. i wish it was. i know a few people down there and could maybe get a chance to use it, if only it would fit quads. i know there are some in KC. im thinkin about taking my down before i tear the passion cylinders of of it.