. Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 For all the John Kerry fans out there answer the following questions? How can you support a man that has spent his entire campaign trail being for the working man? I dont quite understand this being as how his only job is in the military and as a politician. The last time i checked politicians and military members are not your everyday working class citizens. This poses a problem. The military members today are the protectors of our freedoms. This is the same it has been since the beginning of time. Kerry when returning from Vietnam denounced the United States and there war efforts in this conflict. Is this the real type of leader you want? Now onto the job as a member of the congress, Kerry attended only 24 percent of the senate meetings pre nine-eleven. Then after nine-eleven attended no meetings in the senate. Do we see a huge PROBLEM HERE? I dont know about you but i sure do. This is just a few of the many reasons why Kerry lost my vote I'm not a john kerry fan exactly but I'll answer your questions. He says he's for the working man, who knows, who cares, every candidate says they are for the working man. He denounced the war because he was a soldier that was over there and was realizing the futile effort of what we were doing over there. He realized that vietnam was basically a slaughterhouse of his comrads, and we lost that war anyway. He had enough in him to say the war was wrong, which was his beliefs, which he is entitled to. And Kerry lost your vote because of not showing up for votes in the senate among other things. Do you know that George Bush has taken more vacation than any other president up to this day? I've got one question to ask you about George Bush though. In the last 4 years, what good has he done in moving our country forward? Is healthcare any better? Is the deficit any better? Is the country any safer? Has the unemployment percentage gone down? There is only one good thing I've seen that George Bush has done, and that is to bulk our military back up. Clinton desized and for the time it was a good thing to lower the deficit, and I voted for Bush because I knew he'd pull in the reigns and slow things down some. But I never expected it to be that my children's children would be paying for stuff that is happening from my parents baby boomer generation. Kerry might be far left, but Bush has gone from modestly right to as far right as he can go. It's like comparing rotten apples to rotten oranges.....if you have to eat one, you just gotta see which one smells a little bit better SANDSTAR Posted on Aug 27 2004, 12:50 PM And as far as name calling, I'll say any damn thing I want. Save your peacenik holyer than thou attude for someone else, meat. man, you sound like a little rich kid throwing a temper tantrum.....I bet you have some pretty big beer muscles too dont you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANDSTAR Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 For all the John Kerry fans out there answer the following questions? How can you support a man that has spent his entire campaign trail being for the working man? I dont quite understand this being as how his only job is in the military and as a politician. The last time i checked politicians and military members are not your everyday working class citizens. This poses a problem. The military members today are the protectors of our freedoms. This is the same it has been since the beginning of time. Kerry when returning from Vietnam denounced the United States and there war efforts in this conflict. Is this the real type of leader you want? Now onto the job as a member of the congress, Kerry attended only 24 percent of the senate meetings pre nine-eleven. Then after nine-eleven attended no meetings in the senate. Do we see a huge PROBLEM HERE? I dont know about you but i sure do. This is just a few of the many reasons why Kerry lost my vote I'm not a john kerry fan exactly but I'll answer your questions. He says he's for the working man, who knows, who cares, every candidate says they are for the working man. He denounced the war because he was a soldier that was over there and was realizing the futile effort of what we were doing over there. He realized that vietnam was basically a slaughterhouse of his comrads, and we lost that war anyway. He had enough in him to say the war was wrong, which was his beliefs, which he is entitled to. And Kerry lost your vote because of not showing up for votes in the senate among other things. Do you know that George Bush has taken more vacation than any other president up to this day? I've got one question to ask you about George Bush though. In the last 4 years, what good has he done in moving our country forward? Is healthcare any better? Is the deficit any better? Is the country any safer? Has the unemployment percentage gone down? There is only one good thing I've seen that George Bush has done, and that is to bulk our military back up. Clinton desized and for the time it was a good thing to lower the deficit, and I voted for Bush because I knew he'd pull in the reigns and slow things down some. But I never expected it to be that my children's children would be paying for stuff that is happening from my parents baby boomer generation. Kerry might be far left, but Bush has gone from modestly right to as far right as he can go. It's like comparing rotten apples to rotten oranges.....if you have to eat one, you just gotta see which one smells a little bit better SANDSTAR Posted on Aug 27 2004, 12:50 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKeR Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 Do you think Clinton was disliked by half of American when he slaughted Bush Sr. and Bob Dole in those elections? hate to burst your bubble but clinton got less than 50% of the vote against bush sr. remember that guy with the big ears? anyways i see this whole thread is getting pretty ugly and i dont want to add to it. i just want to know when it became a negative thing to serve your country? it pretty sad to see the responce a lot of you guys who served are giving. yeah its about the guy next to you your men are the best thing you have in the military. i understand that its hell so see your friend die, but thats war thats what its all about, trying to kill them before they kill you. you knew that when you signed up. i guarantee theres not a war in the history of the world that everyone agreed with but i think theres more than what you agree with to life. theres right and wrong, theres the easy way and the hard way. we could have stayed out of vietnam and we could have saved a lot of americans lifes, then again we could have left the british alone a while back too. i agree wars have become too political but the politics isnt in going to war its fighting them. my grandpa scoffs at the pussnutted attitude you see these days man and women complainging about how long there having to serve bla bla bla. 60 years ago hundreds of thousands of american boys went overseas untill the job was done. sure they bitched like everyone does but they knew they were part of something bigger than they were. i think were in the same situation now. we have a world wide issue, terrorism. and as a country we need to stop argueing about how terrible everything is and start fighting for what is right. theres good and theres evil we may not be perfect but were good. stop knocking each other down we need to band together. Bush hansnt divided the country we have and untill we as a country can join together and fight for what is right we will stay divided kerry wont fix it bush wont fix it; WE have to, so stop whinning. if you think your job is to stay here in america right now then do it, if you think your job is to fight then do that. but we need to realize theres more than just us involved. we can disagree on politics but we need to agree on what is right and what is wrong. right now terrism is wrong.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman-hott Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 Shortly before 9/11, the Post calculated that Bush had spent 42 percent of his presidency at vacation spots or en route, including all or part of 54 days at his ranch. That calculation, however, includes weekends, which Moore failed to mention. Presidents have usually spent many weekends at Camp David, which is fully equipped for Presidential work. Once the Camp David time is excluded, Bush's "vacation" time drops to 13 percent. Using public documents from www.whitehouse.gov, here is what he found: Monday, August 20 Spoke concerning the budget while visiting a high school in Independence, Missouri. Spoke at the annual Veteran's of Foreign Wars convention in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Signed six bills into law. Announced his nominees for Chief Financial Officer of the Department of Agriculture, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Financial Management, member of the Federal Housing Finance Board, Assistant Secretary of Labor for Disabled Employment Policy, U.S. Representative to the General Assembly of the U.N., and Assistant Administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development for the Bureau of Humanitarian Response. Spoke with workers at the Harley Davidson factory. Dined with Kansas Governor Bill Graves, discussing politics. Thats just one random day of his "vacation" that everyone seems to call it. What the media tells you and what you saw in Moores 9/11 bullshit documentary...Anyone else notice that in the first 15 min of the film Moore lied or screwed with facts over 59 times? What has he done in 4 Years? You do realize the economic downturn was from Clinton and not Bush? Changes to the law and bills signed regarding the economy take on average 4 years to take full effect, so unless Bush was president during Clintons last 4 years than this shit is Clintons fault NOT BUSH's. Healthcare? My healthcare is fine, Why should the government pay your healthcare? Go to Europe or Canada if you want the government to pay your healthcare But be prepared to pay out the ass in taxes, that shit aint free buddy. The unemployment has started turning around, it too took a dive because of CLintons Bills and laws which was compounded by 9/11 How soon we forget how much of an impact that had on our world. If Kerry didn't show up for any Senate hearings WTF makes you think he's gonna do a good job as president? If I didnt show up to work or only showed up 24% of the time My ass would be fired gone bye-bye. As for McCain didn't he recently bash Kerry? Wierd turn of events there you think. With that I'm out, fucking Husky has fleas gotta take her to the vet than proceed to powder and spray my carpet/furniture before the shit gets out of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUSH THE THROTTLE Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 The "mudslinging" the Bushys are putting out have pissed of John McCain. I would vote for John McCain, he has my respect. So are you going to watch McCain speak on Bush's behalf this week at the convention? It's sad to see that a group on here has become split talking about politics that should show you that we have problems in this country. I can't believe that everybody wants all sides of the issue we want safer and freedom. Pretty soon we are going to have to start doing cavity checks to keep these bastards from blowing up our airplanes which could have your family and friends on them. The enemy here is terrorists they will sacrifice their lives to kill ours. I haven't heard much about the plane crashes in Russia but I thought I heard they believe it was women wearing explosive belts, whats next have women stuffed with explosives that look pregnant and then go into the bathroom and light the string on their tampon to blow you up? We have a problem and we need to solve it now. From everything Kerry has said minus the belly aching complaints about the Bush's bashing him and the Bush bashing he does which doesn't leave much else he doesn't have a plan except to get help from countries that can't protect themselves which he's not going to get anyway. Here is the speech now "I'm John Kerry and since I was in Vietnam you are responsible for helping me. Oh and by the way I was in Vietnam. Also here's some free ketchup packets but please only one per person my wife would like to be a multi billionaire. To re-itereate I was in Vietnam." Another sad thing is that if we would attack the way I feel we should pushing buttons instead of pulling triggers our very own "United We Stand" country has quite a few people that would be sueing, asking for impeachment, and protesting within minutes. As far as I'm concerned give every decent Iraqi a week to get out of the country blow the ever living hell out of it and then they can be the first inline to get the new jobs pumping race fuel and oil wells in the new country of United Offroad Oil Pump Land. As for thinking Clinton was great can somebody please post the employment stats for every year of his presidency? I don't know what they are but I'd be interested to know. As far as vacation isn't getting blown at work similar to vacation??? I can't say anything bad about anyone risking their lives to protect me that's just plain irresponsible. Any body who risks their lives everyday in their job you have my respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
. Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 Why the hell do you EXPECT the GOVERNMENT to give you healthcare???? Will someone please explain this line of thinking, because it is completely illogical to expect someone else to be responsible for YOUR OWN HEALTH I dont expect the govt to give me healthcare. I've always paid a COMPANY out of my paycheck weekly a great amount of money to be able to go to the doctor maybe 3 times a year. I do however expect the govt to step in on all these illegitimate suing's and monopolies of the healthcare business so companies keep getting run out from under us. I've had to change healthcares 3 times now in the last 4 years because of them being bought out, or dropping the healtchare from our state because of people illegitimately suing and the govt letting them get away with it. So basically I paid a company thousands of dollars, just so they could say we cant serve you in your state because we cant afford to from people suing. I fight hard for my CONSERVITIVE values because I started with NOTHING.Getting to where I am has been very difficult, and I know for a fact that Kerry will make it damn near impossible for anyone else to get off the ground floor. I want all of you to have the chance to make it big if you choose to try. How is kerry going to make it hard for us to get off the ground floor. What are these facts that you speak of? I'd be interested in seeing them from a reputable source. In clintons years more businesses were started in this country then any other years I could ever remember. A lot of it had to do with the explosion of the internet but still, it was allowed to be conducted. My fathers company who he's worked for for 25 years, up and left for a foreign country last year. I wonder why? Changes to the law and bills signed regarding the economy take on average 4 years to take full effect, so unless Bush was president during Clintons last 4 years than this shit is Clintons fault NOT BUSH's. It's 2 years for them to start effecting the country, and yes, some of that has been from clinton. The last 2 years have been horrible though. Prices of houses have dropped, vehicles have dropped, interest rates, basically the cost of everything has gone down because us middle class workers are being squeezed. And I've felt it the most in the last 2 years than any other year in the last 8 years I've been living on my own. I've said it for a long time now that their needs to be more than 3 tax brackets, but everyone that is in the govt is either at the upper end of the middle tax bracket or the lower end of the upper tax bracket and dont want to be put in their own tax bracket and pay more taxes. Not to mention Clinton finally signed in a bill that people on welfare had a limit of how many children they could have compared to how much welfare they get. People have been working the system to long where the system was initiated from the stock market crash way back when. It's not needed now. Our country is in a position where it can take care of its own with jobs and getting people on their feet, but once they get on their feet they need to take care of their own. Not continue getting welfare. But instead we're to busy being big brother to the rest of the country. We have a presence everywhere in the world with foreign diplomacy and helping feed and help countries that need it. When is it going to come to a time where we cant do it anymore and we start taking care of our homeless and such? And firemann you talk about how kerry just talks about vietnam and ketchup packets, where is george bush any better? He's the little kid of an oil empire that had his daddy and who his daddy knew get him into the coast guard bumped over thousands of others, and got like 4 deferrments of being sent over to vietnam. Not to mention all his republican string pullers have gotten all sorts of deferrments so they didnt have to go to vietnam either. They all said the Vietnam war was a good thing and they support it, but got strings pulled so they didnt have to go. That's like sitting in the stands and telling a MLB player how he should play ball. It's not like it matters anyway, we're not voting for someone that will change the country anyway, the more and more elections go by, I just see how much that people in the background run the show. And no matter who wins, the same people are going to be pulling the strings of the president and surrounding govt. All a president is nowadays is a ballpoint pen with an arm and a string attached to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUSH THE THROTTLE Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 (edited) I do however expect the govt to step in on all these illegitimate suing's and monopolies of the healthcare business so companies keep getting run out from under us. Edited August 30, 2004 by PUSH THE THROTTLE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANDSTAR Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 (edited) Why the hell do you EXPECT the GOVERNMENT to give you healthcare???? Will someone please explain this line of thinking, because it is completely illogical to expect someone else to be responsible for YOUR OWN HEALTH I dont expect the govt to give me healthcare. I've always paid a COMPANY out of my paycheck weekly a great amount of money to be able to go to the doctor maybe 3 times a year. I do however expect the govt to step in on all these illegitimate suing's and monopolies of the healthcare business so companies keep getting run out from under us. I've had to change healthcares 3 times now in the last 4 years because of them being bought out, or dropping the healtchare from our state because of people illegitimately suing and the govt letting them get away with it. So basically I paid a company thousands of dollars, just so they could say we cant serve you in your state because we cant afford to from people suing. I fight hard for my CONSERVITIVE values because I started with NOTHING.Getting to where I am has been very difficult, and I know for a fact that Kerry will make it damn near impossible for anyone else to get off the ground floor. I want all of you to have the chance to make it big if you choose to try. How is kerry going to make it hard for us to get off the ground floor. What are these facts that you speak of? I'd be interested in seeing them from a reputable source. In clintons years more businesses were started in this country then any other years I could ever remember. A lot of it had to do with the explosion of the internet but still, it was allowed to be conducted. My fathers company who he's worked for for 25 years, up and left for a foreign country last year. I wonder why? Changes to the law and bills signed regarding the economy take on average 4 years to take full effect, so unless Bush was president during Clintons last 4 years than this shit is Clintons fault NOT BUSH's. It's 2 years for them to start effecting the country, and yes, some of that has been from clinton. The last 2 years have been horrible though. Prices of houses have dropped, vehicles have dropped, interest rates, basically the cost of everything has gone down because us middle class workers are being squeezed. And I've felt it the most in the last 2 years than any other year in the last 8 years I've been living on my own. I've said it for a long time now that their needs to be more than 3 tax brackets, but everyone that is in the govt is either at the upper end of the middle tax bracket or the lower end of the upper tax bracket and dont want to be put in their own tax bracket and pay more taxes. Not to mention Clinton finally signed in a bill that people on welfare had a limit of how many children they could have compared to how much welfare they get. People have been working the system to long where the system was initiated from the stock market crash way back when. It's not needed now. Our country is in a position where it can take care of its own with jobs and getting people on their feet, but once they get on their feet they need to take care of their own. Not continue getting welfare. But instead we're to busy being big brother to the rest of the country. We have a presence everywhere in the world with foreign diplomacy and helping feed and help countries that need it. When is it going to come to a time where we cant do it anymore and we start taking care of our homeless and such? And firemann you talk about how kerry just talks about vietnam and ketchup packets, where is george bush any better? He's the little kid of an oil empire that had his daddy and who his daddy knew get him into the coast guard bumped over thousands of others, and got like 4 deferrments of being sent over to vietnam. Not to mention all his republican string pullers have gotten all sorts of deferrments so they didnt have to go to vietnam either. They all said the Vietnam war was a good thing and they support it, but got strings pulled so they didnt have to go. That's like sitting in the stands and telling a MLB player how he should play ball. It's not like it matters anyway, we're not voting for someone that will change the country anyway, the more and more elections go by, I just see how much that people in the background run the show. And no matter who wins, the same people are going to be pulling the strings of the president and surrounding govt. All a president is nowadays is a ballpoint pen with an arm and a string attached to it. How is kerry going to make it hard for us to get off the ground floor. What are these facts that you speak of? I'd be interested in seeing them from a reputable source. In clintons years more businesses were started in this country then any other years I could ever remember. A lot of it had to do with the explosion of the internet but still, it was allowed to be conducted. My fathers company who he's worked for for 25 years, up and left for a foreign country last year. I wonder why? Let me tell you. Lets say I start an atv performance shop. I hire a mechanic for $15 hr. So, 1 month salary for the mecanic is $2400.Sounds good, right? WRONG. Not only will I have to pay their salary, according to Kerry, I SHOULD provide them health care. This is above workers comp, paid National Holidays ect.. I just paid a premium, so I know that a reasonably healthy 27 year-old male is runnin about $250 per month. Part of health care is dental expenses, so a dental plan for this growing family is gonna cost at least $150 per month. Lets say the mechanic has a wife and 2 kids. The Health care premium for his family, which Kerry seems to think I am responsible for, jumps to $575 for Doctors and $150 for Dentists. Kerry just took $8700 out of my back pocket. Then, Kerry comes along and sees that I "made" $200,001. Well, he thinks that I should pay more taxes than my mechanic. After all, anyone making more than $200,000 is rich. So I get hit at 50%. I worked 15 hr days, put my neck on the line, risked everything only to be slapped down by being forced to pay a mechanic , that is worth $15 hr, $19.53. AND THEN, THEY TAKE HALF MY MONEY AWAY. It is a total loss of $108700. Money that I gave away and got nothing in return. If you add in all the other mandatory employer bennys, the picture gets REALLY scary. It would take alot of typing to show the true cost of government to small busness. I see that I can't afford this, so I fire the mechanic and try to handle it by myself. I can't. I go out of busness after 1 year because of the government. If they would have left me alone, I might have hired another mechanic and a hot secretary, but alas, it was not to be. Edited August 30, 2004 by SANDSTAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUSH THE THROTTLE Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 and a hot secretary I follow you Sandstar, but you need some interns too they do anything for a permanent job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
. Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 I hire a mechanic for $15 hr. So, 1 month salary for the mecanic is $2400.Sounds good, right? Lets say the mechanic has a wife and 2 kids. The Health care premium for his family, which Kerry seems to think I am responsible for, jumps to $575 for Doctors and $150 for Dentists Kerry just took $8700 out of my back pocket. 2400 in pay and 725 in premiums = 8700 out of your back pocket? Am I missing something, I'm sure their is other added in premiums (workmans comp insurance etc if your mechanic gets hurt and such, but an extra 5 grand worth? So if you pay an employee 2400 a month plus the 725 for doctors that adds up to 34500 that you'd pay for the mechanic and to help them with their healthcare Then, Kerry comes along and sees that I "made" $200,001. Well, he thinks that I should pay more taxes than my mechanic. After all, anyone making more than $200,000 is rich. So I get hit at 50%. Did you miss how I stated how the taxation process has needed to be changed for years now where you would be in a class of your own and not put into the upper class because you made an extra dollar? Maybe you'd only pay 40 percent instead of the 50% And if you did make the 200,001 and got hit at 50%, and had to pay for your mechanic and his doctor bills, you'd be about 135,000 down which would give you 65 grand in profit for the year, and you would gross 165,000 for the year.......which isnt exactly to shabby for a little small time atv shop with one mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
. Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Bush has been trying to get laws passed against frivolous lawsuits. And he's been trying to secure our borders, and take away our 1st amendment, and get rid of abortion so we can go back to doing it in back alley streets, and worrying about gays liking each other among lots of other things. But what has he actually done? And your complaining that costs of items you buy have dropped and that interest rates are low?????????? New cars 0% how is that bad? Can somebody do that on a yfz450 please? It's good for us, but bad for business because noone is buying the stuff, thats why stuff is marked so low and rates are so low. Businesses in this country are hurting for money. You know why they wont do it with a yfz, because its made in a foreign country. you can walk into basically any american car dealer and get a 0% 60 month interest rate. The only money they are making is on the mark up. Have you considered that Bush was a fighter pilot what the hell good was he going to be flying around trying to shoot Charlie while he's hiding in the forests and swamps? Ah....so you're starting to see my point.....he got bumped over thousands of others to become a national guardsman and bumped over many others to become a fighter pilot......and you're right, what good would he have been over in vietnam with that training? It's amazing how things work so people that know people dont have to go risk their lives. Dont forget his deferrments that he got as well. here's a url for you....click on the pictures, theres some good ones: http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/im...tionalguard.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 uhh...kerry got let out six months early so he could run for office.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendSS28 Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 this is way out of hand, the way i see it is they are both rich morons who dont see things, or live with things we do. i really dont think you can go right here, no matter what if you elect a politician your pretty much screwed...we just need a normal, educated person in office Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhead03 Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 I agree with legend Im sick of these assholes that have been groomed to be president. Let someone who has lived a well rounded life have the spotlight and be able to debate under the same publicity as bush and kerry. It just seems to be that its not about the majority anymore. its about rich people playing games with blue collar lives. fuckshitasscuntscoobitydoo....i want to keep my right to offend the shit out of youuuuu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUSH THE THROTTLE Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 And he's been trying to secure our borders, and take away our 1st amendment, and get rid of abortion so we can go back to doing it in back alley streets What's Kerry's plan on all of this? What is Bush doing to take away the 1st amendment? On abortion watch the news they'll actually report on this I see it every month or so where some girl tosses her baby in the dumpster or puts it in a shoebox in her closet not because of any laws from Bush? It's good for us, but bad for business because noone is buying the stuff, thats why stuff is marked so low and rates are so low. Businesses in this country are hurting for money. You know why they wont do it with a yfz, because its made in a foreign country. you can walk into basically any american car dealer and get a 0% 60 month interest rate. The only money they are making is on the mark up. Thought you said you were squeezed? Not the businesses. because us middle class workers are being squeezed You didn't explain where the money is going. Let me explain again you pay less taxes than a year or two ago and make the same or more money. You also say goods are cheaper? Why aren't people spending their money on these cheap goods? Car dealers don't make any more than "mark up" on me either I've never had to finance a car is that my problem? Ah....so you're starting to see my point.....he got bumped over thousands of others to become a national guardsman and bumped over many others to become a fighter pilot......and you're right, what good would he have been over in vietnam with that training? It's amazing how things work so people that know people dont have to go risk their lives. Dont forget his deferrments that he got as well. Nope you have no point. Bush senior was a fighter pilot shot down in WWII what is wrong with his son following in his fathers footsteps? Deferrment from what? Training not the war. If his I don't know what you call it "squadron" had been sent he would have had to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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