ybanshee203 Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 One Word: FAITH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyman Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Well, Im pretty simple on this one. I believe in god "just in case". I believe in evolution. I believe in scientific theories. I'm not tryin' to rack your nads or anything here but how do you believe in God "just in case"? And how is Evolution even a viable option when it is mathmatically impossible. It is simply impossible for evolution to have ever resulted in anything. This is one of the reasons Darwins theory has been all but abandoned by scientists but not renamed. It's still called evolution but it's nothing like what evolution was said to be. It just makes more sense to believe in a creator. That's my take on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTShee Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 I only read the first page, but I am totaly with Meat on this one. I went to Cathoic School from 5 to 18 (through no choice of my own) and had so much of that stuff rammed down my throat that that now I am just sick of it. People talk about seeing lights and crap like that before you die, I have been jump started twice and didnt see shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukkyphil Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Should this topic be hear? Does it not more properly belong in the Roosting Room? I was brought up to believe that religion and politics were not the stuff to discuss over dinner, I would extend that laos to public forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 XTShee Posted on Jul 30 2004, 04:53 AM I only read the first page, but I am totaly with Meat on this one. I went to Cathoic School from 5 to 18 (through no choice of my own) and had so much of that stuff rammed down my throat that that now I am just sick of it. People talk about seeing lights and crap like that before you die, I have been jump started twice and didnt see shit. Maybe though, you could take the time to read more than the first page. I can understand how having something like the catholic religion shoved down your throat could leave a bad taste, but don't let that stop you from...from whatever...eat some peyote or something. The native americans and many other cultures have found, explored and experienced a spritual side of life. Sprituality is real and not confined or defined by the terms of any one religion. Seek and ye shall find...that is called a spriritual awakening. From there on out, you may never feel that close to God again while you are on this earth. That is when faith comes into play. Faith can be very difficult without some kind of spiritual awakening. . You may have already had one and simply lost faith due to negative experiences with the catholic church. One thing is for sure, your time here on earth...your life...will pass before you like a vapor. 0-20yrs seems like forever and you think you have forever, but the next thing you know your 30 then 40 then 70...and your life has passed like a vapor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee04le Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Should this topic be hear? Does it not more properly belong in the Roosting Room? I was brought up to believe that religion and politics were not the stuff to discuss over dinner, I would extend that laos to public forums. How would this belong in the roostin' room? This is most definitely and simply a general discussion. If you don't like the topic, you don't have to read it...and you certainly don't have to read it while you eat dinner . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducman Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 There is no point in life or death it just happens, regardless of what anybody belives. So true, yet impossible for so many to accept. Some people can not simply accept that there is a lot of shit they just don't know and can not be found out. If you need the bible as a security blanket to make you feel OK about dying, knowing that your conscious is not simply going to fade away to the nothingness that was there before you were born, that's fine with me. The bible teaches good morals and values and helps people get along with one another. But, it can also be viewed as a simple explanation with a happy ending for what we can not understand and never will. So don't go around preachin that you know your shit like its a fact. I'm not about to make a retarded argument like evolution can not mathematically exist and not explain the equation, the principle, or theory in mathematics that disproves it, or why it wont back the theory up. Thats a bullshit argument with no explanation. Nor am I going to argue that the "Theory" of evolution was the only way that things came to exist because I don't think anyone can explain the seemingly magical "spark" or cause for the combination of molecules to occur in the beginning that resulted in the first single cell organism that was able to reproduce itself, evolving into, and resulting in all the organisms that we know and are surrounded by today. That would be pushing the limits of random occurances to the limit even given the millions of years it has taken to do it. And it aint that friggin hard to figure out how monkeys, apes, and/or other prime mates along with humans can co-evolve from the same or similar genetic roots and end up different. But to fully understand how genetics and reproduction can take a variety of grass and breed it over generations to result in a stalk of corn, or a week like vine and genetically evolve through generations to produce tomatoes, you would need a slight bit more education than the high school "intro to biology" class that you obviously slept through. All I am saying is that dont try to push your argument weither your on the believer or nonbeliever side of the fence because you simply don't know can't definitively prove anything one way or another. "Don't try to sell any of your crazy here cause were all stocked up! - As Good as it Gets" It is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think your a fool than to speak up and proove it in my opinion. I am simply content for now to just not know and appreciate life for the complex enigma that it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintoxicated Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 (edited) ya im a christian to. i also believe in christ. this dude just had no belief at all. i mean why would they make up god and the bible? is it just a scandle to get your money or some shit? i mean come on, just think about it. I believe in God, but you have to go way back in history and study it well to understand how the Christian faith started and that will answer your question . I no longer believe in everything, christianity has changed so much since it started I don't know that anyone can really say exactly what is good and bad, as circumstances, the way of life in general, and the reasons behind some of the beliefs have changed so much... From my understanding of evolution, there are always mutations in nature over thousands and hundreads of thousands of year. When the mutations are bad those species die off, if the mutations are good, then those species will have an easier time living. It's more complicated than that due to dominant and recessive genotypes, gender specific alielles (Spelling), thats why it takes so long to evolve. Edited July 30, 2004 by Justintoxicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANDSTAR Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Yeah, maybe Evil is right. Those damn dirty apes are just underachevers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp559 Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Nice post Ducman, I like your theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogboystoy Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 I believe in god "just in case", Meaning that I do say "oh god" on occasion, and that if my kid (perish the thought) was in a hopsital recovering from something, that I would pray to god that he will be ok, Now I probably do not truly believe that god would do anything because I prayed or not, I think if god does exhist he is going to do what he wants regardless of what I have to say about it. I say "just in case" meaning I am trying to cover my ass just in case there is a god, and I die and go to heaven, and I have that juicy keg of beer waiting for me. Now the evolution thing: are you saying that things dont evolve? Because if you are then I think you need to do some more research. But maybe you were refering to evolution as on how life began, because I could understand how that could be a very ambiguous theory, nobody know for sure that fish evolved from blue/green algae, but that is the theory, and being that I have a scientific type mind, I will be more apt to believe that, then I would believe that there is some magical being watching and protecting us. Now on the evolving theory: there are all kinds of animals that have evolved from other animals, I believe that we did evolve from apes: hence why our genetic code is so close and only off by (what is it 3%?, or maybe it was 1%), either way that is just one of the many things that have evolved. Darwins theories are out dated by technological advances over the years, where technology has proven and disproven various thoughts on the subject. A simple point of evolution, Every year the microbiological labs that produce flu vaccines, have to predict the new strain of flu virus for the upcomming fall and winter seasons. Why do they have to do this? Because the previous years flu virus has eveolved, (some people will use the word mutate, but in this case it is one and the same). Since the virus has evolved, our bodies will not be immune or be able to fight off the virus because our bodies have not produced the appropriate antibodies that will adhere to the virus shell (the shell or protien coat has changed its chemical make up), this has changed because the DNA of the virus has changed through evolution... Now why did this change? Because like every living thing (I know a Virus has not been proven as a living thing, but it is on the fence wheather it is or isnt), has a built in drive to live and procrate. So the virus evolves to ensure its continued exhistence. A similar point can be made with bacteria and antibiotics, but I wont go into that. My point, was to be made on this small scale with something that I am very familiar with. I am also aware of this similar form of evolution on a larger scale. The Earth itself evolves. I am not trying to change anyones views, I am simply stating my own, and refute Holymans response to my earlier statement. Peace out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyman Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 There is no point in life or death it just happens, regardless of what anybody belives. I'm not about to make a retarded argument like evolution can not mathematically exist and not explain the equation, the principle, or theory in mathematics that disproves it, or why it wont back the theory up. Thats a bullshit argument with no explanation. And it aint that friggin hard to figure out how monkeys, apes, and/or other prime mates along with humans can co-evolve from the same or similar genetic roots and end up different. But to fully understand how genetics and reproduction can take a variety of grass and breed it over generations to result in a stalk of corn, or a week like vine and genetically evolve through generations to produce tomatoes, you would need a slight bit more education than the high school "intro to biology" class that you obviously slept through. Since this seems to be directed at me to explain, I will. The theory of evolution was that from a vacuum {a complete state where nothing at all exists} microscopic life began which eventually changed from its original form to every form known today. This is not only logically impossible but mathmatically impossible. Allow me to demonstrate. It's what I call the cow in the blender. I won't make you start from nothing {a vacuum}, I will give you a living cow and I will give you a blender that functions. You grind the cow up to the point that it is nothing but seperate molecules. No 2 are stuck together. Then thru random acts of whateverness, the cow would have to become reassembled. If you put the cow in a container with no other outside influences like disease, decay, heat, cold, etc. and randomly jiggled it or turned it or electrified it or heated it or cooled it or even had teams of thousands of geniuses or hundreds of thousands of computers working on it would you ever put the cow back together to be a complete cow? No. What makes evolution even more impossible is that the cow would have to have a complete reproductive system. But that would not be enough. Because it would simultaniously need to have evolved a cow of the opposite sex to reproduce. But that too would not be enough because it would have to eat. So grass would have to simultaniously evolve with it's own reproductive system which needs soil and air and sunlight and the seasons and water and insects to help keep the soil aerated and dispose of the wastes that would accumulate provided the animals lived. In addition to all of that we don't just have a functioning mechanical cow, we have one that can see, hear, taste, process thought, feel pain, and has a nervous system, circulatory system, cooling system, and digestive system which in themselves have millions and millions of connections. And if you think that all of that can happen in trillions and trillions of years by itself with no influence what so ever beyond sheer randomness then consider this... There wasn't even the cow to start with. There was no light, no air, no soil, no minerals, no electricity, no heat, no cold, no nothing. The mathmatical possibility of something as insignificant as a single cell with all of it's complexity evolving would be far less than one person living to be 10,000 years old and winning every states lottery every week for 10,000 years and all of that without ever buying a single ticket. That sir is impossible. Any mathmatician will tell you that even if you do play the lottery and use the same numbers for the rest of your life the chances of you ever winning back the money you spent on the tickets is mathmatically impossible. That's rolling a few balls in a barrel and randomly picking out a few. The theory of evolution is that by randomly rolling a few balls around in a barrel you will get a brand new #### which has never existed before and a brand new **** which has never existed before and a brand new ++++ which has never existed before and when all 3 roll out, they are all different and yet work perfectly together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Duece Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 (edited) I believe in god "just in case", Meaning that I do say "oh god" on occasion, and that if my kid (perish the thought) was in a hopsital recovering from something, that I would pray to god that he will be ok, Now I probably do not truly believe that god would do anything because I prayed or not, I think if god does exhist he is going to do what he wants regardless of what I have to say about it. I say "just in case" meaning I am trying to cover my ass just in case there is a god, and I die and go to heaven, and I have that juicy keg of beer waiting for me. Now the evolution thing: are you saying that things dont evolve? Because if you are then I think you need to do some more research. But maybe you were refering to evolution as on how life began, because I could understand how that could be a very ambiguous theory, nobody know for sure that fish evolved from blue/green algae, but that is the theory, and being that I have a scientific type mind, I will be more apt to believe that, then I would believe that there is some magical being watching and protecting us. Now on the evolving theory: there are all kinds of animals that have evolved from other animals, I believe that we did evolve from apes: hence why our genetic code is so close and only off by (what is it 3%?, or maybe it was 1%), either way that is just one of the many things that have evolved. Darwins theories are out dated by technological advances over the years, where technology has proven and disproven various thoughts on the subject. A simple point of evolution, Every year the microbiological labs that produce flu vaccines, have to predict the new strain of flu virus for the upcomming fall and winter seasons. Why do they have to do this? Because the previous years flu virus has eveolved, (some people will use the word mutate, but in this case it is one and the same). Since the virus has evolved, our bodies will not be immune or be able to fight off the virus because our bodies have not produced the appropriate antibodies that will adhere to the virus shell (the shell or protien coat has changed its chemical make up), this has changed because the DNA of the virus has changed through evolution... Now why did this change? Because like every living thing (I know a Virus has not been proven as a living thing, but it is on the fence wheather it is or isnt), has a built in drive to live and procrate. So the virus evolves to ensure its continued exhistence. A similar point can be made with bacteria and antibiotics, but I wont go into that. My point, was to be made on this small scale with something that I am very familiar with. I am also aware of this similar form of evolution on a larger scale. The Earth itself evolves. I am not trying to change anyones views, I am simply stating my own, and refute Holymans response to my earlier statement. Peace out well the whole pollywog to frog and catipillar to butterfly is cool, but wheres the monkey with a tail, so evolution stopped?, no fossils of anything to back it up, both sides are a shot in the dark, a guess..... and hospitals can f*ck around all they want but nobodys been able to create a human being by any other means than some cum in a twat, fuckers have even claimed theve cloned a human(with no proof)..my father in law launched the first appollo missions and has been a mathamitician for 40 years, he thinks he was reincarnated from a fuckin head of lettuce(he's a scientoligest) im begining to think when you die its fuckin over, if your lucky you'll fertalize some fuckers lawn.......oh and my father in law launches rockets and believes in evolution, he helped design the bomb that blew hiroshima a new ass, definiatly not a high school moron Edited July 31, 2004 by Blue Duece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob Banshee Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Hummm Will hummmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogboystoy Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Holyman, I see your theory, or statement and I totally agree. BUT, Lets say the earth came to "be" from the big bang theory (now maybe this opens a new can of worms). But lets just say that there was this particle of matter floating in space that was so dense it just exploded and created the whole universe. In fact we can even roll with the idea that god made the big bang happen. But lets just say that all he did was make the dense matter explode. And lets also say he didnt poof and create an animal or man or algae or anything. Now lets zoom into our planet earth, its a dead planet not anything on there but some basic elements and water, volcanos etc. This planet earth after a few 100,000 years gets light from the sun (because all of the dust had to settle from the big bang). So, now we have light (energy), we have H2O and we have all sorts of elements. Now we all know from highschool chemistry that all it takes is some form of energy (heat or light (to keep this basic) and a couple of the right elements, and boom you have a chemical reaction. Now this chemical reaction will form a molecule. Well, all over the earth these various chemical reactions are taking place because of the sun, volcanos (heat) and the elements etc. Now, I am not saying that, that is all it takes to make life, it is obviously more complicated than that. But the theory goes that: a few elements and molecules and compounds got together and somehow (maybe god, and maybe not) the perfect mixture happened and made a single cell, this cell happened to be the most basic cell ever, Blue/Green algae. Now, after many years of algae floating around, somehow something happened again and a multicellular life form was created, (I forget what it was called, amoeba?), now we have multicellular life, and it just keeps escallating from there, we got tadpoles, frogs, fish, eels, eventually things evolved to a point that things could leave the water, and started to crawl on land. I dont mean to try to explain to you what you probably already know, But, this is how I see it CAN happen. Also, I do not believe that the Earth is a Vaccuum, A vaccuum does not necessarily mean that there is absence of the necessary components to make life, and the Earth does get influence from outerspace (cosmic rays, metiors etc.), a true vaccuum as you described would not allow for anything to enter, sealed off from the outside. So now, the Earth has all it needs.. All of the above that was stated and TIME, plenty of it. But I also like the possibility that some aliens started life on this planet, by whatever means they have. Some religions believe that there is life outside our universe, I believe that this is a must, it has to. As large as outerspace is, Why not? Holyman, I hope I havent insulted you, This happens to be a subject that I am fascinated with, and love to debate and listen to other view points. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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