nater006 Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Got a ticket today on my 900RR. Ran some stuff less than 1/2 mile from my house (too lazy to walk) to a friend in one of my classes. Turning onto this street, there's a barricade in the other lane but its not labeled so I didn't know why its there, what its marked as, etc. Its not labeled on the way in. Rode down the street, dropped the stuff off, and rode back -- behind 5 other cars. The barricade, of which I couldn't see till its too late, says "Road Closed" though its a small 10' hop around it in the other lane. By the time I could even see the sign there was nowhere else to turn -- and U-turns are illegal, bike, car, or truck. So i follow the other 5 for 10' around the barricade.. and pow, a cop is sitting on the street on the way back home, pulling each and every car over. Gave us all tickets w/o even asking. 2 points. If I get a ticket on the 900rr, it might as well be for going too damn fast or doing something stupid..! He gave me crap and was pretty jerkish about the "Didn't you even see the sign...?". I explained that I had come from a driveway down that street and not through the other end where the signs undoubtedly were, also, and didn't see the one on the way back until it was far too late to turn around and U-turns are illegal. He just got flustered, threw up his hands, and said "Contest it" and walked away. Stupid ignorant bitch. Oh well. I think he'll get 0wned in court. I was following the flow of traffic, responsibly, and doing the only other alternative would have been illegal and dangerous in any vehicle, and even worse on a bike. Plus for all I knew it was marked Yield and local traffic only or I certainly would not have gone back that way on the way out -- going around the block would have been fine. But, it was pretty stupid to have it that far up, past the furthest driveway, so that wasn't an option either. Ah oh well. Just pissed. If anyone has any traffic court tips or tricks to send my way... how to present myself (no lawyers in this one), what to say... what story to say.. yadda yadda.. send 'em my way. Just venting and looking for advice I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton eyed Joe Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Never been in this situation, but know people that have. If you contest it the cop has to show up. I'm thinking if he doesn't it gets judged in your favor or the judge makes the call...don't quote me on that however.....like I said I've never been in that situation. But if the cop does show up, just tell it like it is, but be courteous. My dad went to a small claims court against this jackass that owed us some money. The case before ours was still up, and for some reason the defendant kept calling the prosecution "a lying bitch". The judge had to warn this guy 4 times with a fine of $500.00 each time, and the last time he told this guy that if he did it again he would be thrown in jail. Oh, and this guy was from Arizona, so he not only dropped $2000 dollars in my town in about 15 minutes, but he almost because a resident for a few months. lol. Sometimes ignorance or an "I'm sorry" will go a long ways. It will hurt saying "Im sorry" when your not in the wrong but catoring to someones ego can work wonders. Its got me a reduced fine on a speeding ticket. 95 in a 70, dropped to 79 in a 70. The fine was about 1/3, and the points were a lot less. Yeah I felt like shit after saying "sorry for speeding blah blah" but I didn't offer any excuses either. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater006 Posted May 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Thanks.. definitely not afraid to apologize, but, I don't want to admit guilt too quickly if there is a chance of getting it reduced by partially being in the right. Guess its difficult to say. Pretty sure the cop will show up. They'll have a vendetta out against anyone my age in a college town like this most likely so oh well. But hopefully they'll be cool and remove the points, as that's all I care about. A $80-100 fine... woopie. Just want the points removed so my insurance doesn't go to hell in a handbasket. Guess I gotta get the suit and conservative shirt and tie out, and get the humble attitude going again. Just kinda sucks.. thats all. Guess I'll just explain my side in as few words as possible, and if they flame me down for it, I'll apologize and be as humble as possible and hope for the best. Got the strategy! hehehe.. well sorta.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabshee Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Nater, Stick strongly to the fact that you were following traffic - YOU DID NOT SEE ANY SIGN CONCERNING THE ROAD BEING CLOSED!!!!!!!!!! If you bring up the fact that it would have been dangerous to do anything else (like bang a U) your admitting that you knew the road was closed and as a result was considering different action. If you admit to seeing the sign - Your Dead in The Water! Now, not knowing the exact layout of everything - if you can claim that the line of cars you were following blocked your ability to view the road closed sign and you were simply following the flow of traffic thats it. What Sign??????????? It is hard to provide advise without being able to see the scene - so thats my take - good luck. BTW - An attorney would guarantee you a victory and no points - weigh the price of your insurance going up and having to pay that over X periods of months. Attorney might be cheap. The reason I say that is 10 years ago I had a bike like yours and quickly added 14 points to my record - and was supposed to loose my license - got an attorney for $350 and walked into court with 14 points, walked out with 0 points - your case would be a lot cheaper. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee0044 Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 some bull shit happened to my cousin on his daytona 955i...pulled out of a denist office after talking to his girlfreind who is a dental assistant...cracked it once to go to a pet store across the street....front wheel came up about 4 - 6 inches....i guess a cop was at the light and seen him. Next thing he knows the cop runs in the pet store and asks him to place his hands behind his back...they had his bike impounded like 30 miles away...they couldnt just send it to the place 5 mins. from his house the cop said to him quote "i will do anything im my will to make this cost you money" He went to court and the trail or whatever was delayed 30 min...he found some lawyer and asked him if uhe wantd some extra work..the guy asked him how muich money he had...he said he had was 60 bucks on him...they guy accepted and they dropped both tickets (recklass driving on one wheel...and they charged him for not having an m-class..he had his permit in the bike but before he could even get it he was like the back of the cop car) anyways the guy took the case for 60 bucks and they dropped it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater006 Posted May 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Nater, Stick strongly to the fact that you were following traffic - YOU DID NOT SEE ANY SIGN CONCERNING THE ROAD BEING CLOSED!!!!!!!!!! If you bring up the fact that it would have been dangerous to do anything else (like bang a U) your admitting that you knew the road was closed and as a result was considering different action. If you admit to seeing the sign - Your Dead in The Water! Now, not knowing the exact layout of everything - if you can claim that the line of cars you were following blocked your ability to view the road closed sign and you were simply following the flow of traffic thats it. What Sign??????????? It is hard to provide advise without being able to see the scene - so thats my take - good luck. BTW - An attorney would guarantee you a victory and no points - weigh the price of your insurance going up and having to pay that over X periods of months. Attorney might be cheap. The reason I say that is 10 years ago I had a bike like yours and quickly added 14 points to my record - and was supposed to loose my license - got an attorney for $350 and walked into court with 14 points, walked out with 0 points - your case would be a lot cheaper. Good Luck If I "didn't see the sign" they'll just tell me I was following traffic too damn close since it was a 1-lane each way setup. I just plan to say that I didn't see it till it was far too late to do anything BUT an illegal move. It sucks one way or another, so hopefully I can show that I chose the best option for the situation -- going with the flow of traffic, not breaking a law intentionally, and not even knowing it was posted due to not using it as a "thru" street. Oh well. Will get pics of the intersection and put 'em on the web tomorrow if anyone has any *extra* advice after seeing them. First round will be attorney-less, just Me vs Cop. I have a feeling if I explain the situations and be remorseful, they'll strip the points. Ppl here at work have done really similar stuff and gotten the points gone -- thats if the cop shows up even (probably will). No need paying for a lawyer this early if I can just be a good behavior person, explain a valid story, and hopefully catch a break. If it sucks and they keep it, I'll just appeal w/ an attorney. Its *JUST* 2 points but will be over $1G by the time insurance gets done sticking me in the arse, especially since I'm going to buy a new car in the next year or so. Thanks for the advice though. I'm new to the whole court thing and any advice is always appreciated. Probably am making a big deal out of it but its a lot of money and I never get in trouble... where's the angel smiley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
. Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 If you're not using it as a through street, then you ARE local traffic. Get yourself some poster board and draw a big ol picture of everything. Pictures speak a million words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater006 Posted May 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Yeah, problem with it is that even for local traffic that end of the road is *closed* to any traffic -- only for about 10' though, max. The signs were behind me on the way in so of course I didn't see them (not to mention the traffic about-to-be pulled over was blocking them) and it wasn't a really safe U-turn situation on the way back. Last night I took pics (in case they should put up more signs! hehe) and will get more today for the magistrate. There was one small "Do not enter" sign about 1.5' off the ground, which I wouldn't see until I was on top of it, and another "Road closed sign" a little higher but further back. Either way I think they'll understand that I just tried to go with the flow and not create an unsafe situation for myself or others. Should be more than enough to at least get them to drop the points -- the money is all they care about anyway. Think it even goes to a charity... at least it does in my hometown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater006 Posted May 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Oh, and thanks for the idea on the poster board. A neat sketch would compliment the pictures well, just showing why there wasn't really a good choice for unknowing local traffic (like myself) passing through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 (edited) I do not know how other states work. But I do know that in New York state, this is how things work in the eyes of traffic court. First and foremost, on the back of your ticket, you should be able to sign and send in your "not guilty" plea. On there should be a check box for "supporting deposition". Check that box. It tells the court that you want a full writeup about the ticket, why it was written, and any other pertinent information about the incident. The cop MUST WRITE it up, or you get the ticket unconditionally dismissed. Most cops won't write one. They take a little time... And if they do, you will have a better understanding of what you're up against. RULE #1 when receiving a ticket. if you know you're going to get a ticket, and there's nothing you can do about it, don't be a dick. Be courteous, call him "deputy", or trooper, or whatever he is..... If he is local, learn the patches, and see if you can spot if he is a lieutenant, or captain, or peon, ir what. Whatever he is, BOOST HIS EGO a little. Call him lieutenant or whatever. (if he is one). If he is a trooper, (state) then call him "trooper". Instead of officer. They hear "officer" from the last 10 morons he pulled over. SO, if you are different, it shows him that you have the respect, and the knowledge to call him by the name he worked hard to get. Cops love that shit. They are on an ego trip. If you are courteous, he won't write notes for himself. Some cops will write notes on the ticket if you are a dick. if you fly off the handle and tell him you will see him in court, you can bet he will make every note on that stop... If you are nice, and you end up going to trial, you can ask questions like direction of travel, approximate distances, and if the cop didn't write notes, how in the hell is he going to testify in court about it? Here's a little trick. Ask the cop how you can just plea guilty by mail. It will make him think that you are stupid enough to do so. And there fore he won't write any notes. You're set. Also, the only time a cop has to be in court, is if you go to trial. In NYS, you plea bargain first. If you want a trial, than you get re-scheduled and come back. THEN, if the cop don't show, you are good to go... BTW, both my parents are county Sheriff deputy's.......... And I have had 47 traffic violations in 9 years Edited May 7, 2004 by boonman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton eyed Joe Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Here's a little trick. Ask the cop how you can just plea guilty by mail. It will make him think that you are stupid enough to do so. And there fore he won't write any notes Brilliant......I'm just sitting here laughing because I think this would work like a charm, and honestly...I wish I would have thought of it..... And I have had 47 traffic violations in 9 years So, do quite a few people end their sentencees with "No thanks, I'll walk"? lol j/k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boonman Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Not really.... Most people have fun when I drive, but sometimes it can be a scary occurrence. Right now, I have 2 points on my liscense. In NYS, we have what is called a record of convictions. It comes wiith your liscense. Each offense you get, gets on the record of convictions. Well, at one time, I had 4 of them. I was smart, and lost my liscense 4 times before I got one I liked, and eventually kept. So, each liscense they sent me, I got me a new conviction stub. I went into court, and was bouncing these all over....... They only keep it on your record for 18 months, or is it 24?? I dunno. Not over 24. Either way, I played the game perfectly. BEat the system. Your only allowed to go to court ordered driving school once every 18 months. I went once a month for 6 months....... And time and time again after that........ I have a problem with driving. I drive my own speed limit. I don't like people in front of me, and I don't like people that drive slow. hen I go somewhere, it is my ow little "race". I see if I can beat my time the last trip I made there. I drive every morning at 70-80 MPH on my way to work. EVERY MORNING. I leave and come in an hour early to do Banshee stuff, and so I don't hit the morning traffic. When I come in to work, there is noone on the road. I get frustrated if someone's halting my flow.... My bike got me a few tickets untill I got sick of it. I would pull oer before they would even turn around. Then, I just decided I'll ride home at a slightly faster pace if they started chasing me. They couldn't catch me. Then, my buddies started dying, and I was prolly next. So, I got out of that... Man, now I'm off on a tangent. I have to go now, I have an agility test at 1:00 P.M. for the County sheriff's..... Maybe I'll make it in and be able to start writing tickets instead of receiving them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater006 Posted May 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Yeah, I tried to be as polite as possible, but it was obvious he was going to write me a ticket. Didn't ask for insurance or registration even.. just my license and walked away. Didn't even tell me what it was for until I innocently asked, and then he didn't even tell me -- he asked it in a rather rude manner in the form of a question. "Didn't you even SEE the barricades on both sides of the street? You COULD NOT miss them". Well, whatever... Ironically, I did ask how to just get rid of the ticket -- meaning, what the quickest way was to pay it off, like via mail or if they could do it online or if i could give him my card right then (not that I would have... they don't offer that here yet) Thanks for the advice though, Boonman. At the time I knew I was getting the ticket so to hell with flattering the guy. He didn't write anything in the comments section except for something scribbled that looks like "fat" or "fast" (even though I was <15mph at the time of pull over) so not much in the line of details. I got pics of the intersection now (not clearly marked unless you are using it as a through street -- which I was not -- especially if other traffic is present, AND on a motorcycle). If he shows up to court, cool. If I lose, oh well. Will run it by a lawyer and see if its worth it to appeal, and win-able. If he doesn't show up, way cool. Either way it'll work itself out. Worst case scenario is that I get 2 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrider Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 All I can say is good luck,you can waste your time drawing illustrations or explaining the whole situation to the judge,but your still gonna have to pay the ticket.Remember its your word against theirs.Since tickets were issued to multiple motorists at the same time and location,I'm sure the officer will be present at court. Your only hope is that the officer doesn't show.If you really want to fight it,go to the first court date and plead not guilty.They will give you another trial date.At the next court date,try to spot the officer who cited you.If they didn't show than your home free,If they did,go to the prosecutor and just say you want to plead guilty.They will drop the case and you will just pay the fine and court costs.I've done this many times during my younger days and had almost half of the tickets dropped.Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledofthezep Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 WTF is all this 'point' ticket business? 'round here if you get 3 tickets within like 6 months you lose your liscense for at least a month-6mo's. Luckily, my 6 months just rolled over...I've been on thin ice for about 5 now, got 2 tickets within a week & none since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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