STLbanshee Posted February 4, 2004 Report Posted February 4, 2004 After all the posts on telling me how to lift my needle, thanks, it wasnt as hard as I thought, but its still almost the same as before, ok heres what I got for all you to help me out again..lol 2002 banshee SST fmfs, K&N with umi adaptor, with no lid 280 main jet stock pilot jet lifted needle one clip its cold as hell here, so that might have something to do with it, but heres what happening now, its like its got no low end power, and the ssts are low to mid range pipes, its like you hit the throtle and its hessatent but then when it hits the power bands it hits hard, hard enough to pull the front tires its 3-4 gear. My friend rode it, and he said if you would race a stock banshee in a roll on race, not like a stand still you might get beat..Is there anyway to get more low end power out of these suposevly low to mid range pipe, that feel like high rev pipes.. Quote
dirtbike killer Posted February 4, 2004 Report Posted February 4, 2004 K&N and pipes, 280 mains sounds a little small. I think you should have 320+ on the mains. 27.5+ on the pilot. Then play with the needle. With the cold weather, you might be running pretty lean right now. Your pipes feel like high rev because your running lean. Quote
Ducman Posted February 4, 2004 Report Posted February 4, 2004 I can't really testify as to your mods and sst's but with my gnarleys I guarantee I will pretty much kick the crap out of any bone stock banshee in lets say a 4th gear roll on. It may be true with a set of extremely high rev drag pipes but I highly doubt it would be that way with a pair of SST's. The FMF fatty and gnarley are more of a low end to mid range pipe. The SST's are more of a mid to top end pipe that are still supposed to maintain a decent low end. Stock pipes suck really bad on top but are so restrictive that they really aren't that great of a low end pipe either. If you are jetted properly it shouldn't be that bad on the bottom. I still think that you are WAAAAAY to lean especially on the mains and even pilots with the sst's + k&N. You need to be careful you don't over do it at this point or you'll be overhauling it. If you go to the biggest pilot that you can while remaining in the range of between 1 to 2.5 turns out on the air screws the bigger pilot will generally improve the botton end power and throttle response over a smaller one. There has to be someone else in this forum with your exact same mods that can give you the correct jetting. I now for sure that my shee gets a little on the lean side with 260 mains when it gets cold out; like 50 degrees and I have the air box lid on and a foam filter that flows like the stock one with pipes that aren't as high reving. According to the Banshee Jetting FAQ which is pretty darn accurate on a non ported motor, you should go up the following # of sizes on the mains and pilots for each of your mods = remove snorkle + 1-2, remove lid + 1-2, K&N + 4-6 and 0-1 on the pilots, pipes + 8 and +2 sizes on the pilots. Main sizes also increase with a decrease in temp and elevation. So from this estimate for where your final jetting should be, at the very least you should be at a 340 main and probably a #30 pilot. At the high end you would be at a 380 main. Really you should be shooting for the rich side to start, where it bogs from being too rich on the top end and decrease main jet sizes until you get it in tune so it doesn't bog. So it ends up being 1 to 2 jet sizes on the mains below where it bogs at wide open throtle. This will ensure that you aren't running lean. If you jet it way too lean your pistons are on a very short trip to meltdown land. So far from the posts I have herd on this forum the Jetting FAQ has given rock solid advise. I highly advise that you read it in its entireity before continuing on because right now you are soaked in gassoline with a match in your fingers looking for a place to light it! http://www.dfn.com/benkaren/jetfaq.html Quote
STLbanshee Posted February 4, 2004 Author Report Posted February 4, 2004 Ok, from talking to guys around here, in Missouri, they have never gone over a 300 on the main, I dont think Im lean cause my plugs are dark, they are not tan or even brown..I think I might step up to a 300 just to be safe, but I dont think Ill go higher then that.. Quote
Ducman Posted February 4, 2004 Report Posted February 4, 2004 If there is another guy with the same exact mods as yours, and assuming that they have their jetting done correctly, then yes you should be at the same jetting or only one size different or so. Each shee can be a little different even with the same mods but close. BUT!!!!!!!!!! Let assume that all your friends are running the same pipes and mods and everything is exactly the same on your shee as well, exept, they are all running foam air filters and you are running a K&N. So then, you go ahead and install the same jetting as your friends and guess what happens next. KABOOOOOOOM Your motor is effin toast because you should have been at lest 4 sizes larger on the mains. You were taking in soooooo much more air with the K&N vs the foam air filters that everyone else has, that you were running very lean and they were all fine. Didn't your mamma tell you not to jump off a bridge just because your friends did it first! Now compound that with the reality that everone has different mods - pipes, degree keys, filters, porting, ect. Bee careful! Learn to do a plug chop because althrough a nice chocolate brown plug is usually a good indication that the jetting is good, looking at a plug that has been in the cylinder while the bike was cold and sat for 2 minutes while warming up won't tell you chit. If you won't read and heed the Jetting FAQ for yourself then do it for the love of the banshee. I just don't want to see you posting: do I need to bore my formerly stock cylinder sleeves .040 or .060 to get to get rid of these massive gouges my melted piston and broken rings left. Quote
spoin39 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Posted February 4, 2004 I agree that you need to be around a 320+ main with no lid and K&N, but just go up one size on the pilot at a time. Start with a 27.5 and turn the airscrew out 1-2 turns if the more you turn it in the better it runs down low then go to a 30. Quote
Banchetta Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 Easy guys,,I'm the only one in my area to run 300 mains, I had pc pipes and wouldn't even run w/ 280 mains, had to run 270's...I'm at sea level, but I think area has a lot to do w/ it......Anyways, the mains ONLY control wide open throttle...the low end hesitation is caused from being lean on either the pilot or needle or even both....you said you raised the needle clip....did you raise the clip or the needle by lowering the clip??? If you lower the clip towards the tapered end, then your raising the needle which should take some of that hesitation out....If you went the wrong way, then you'll probably not see any difference...If you did raise the needle and no changes, then have you tried adjusting the air screws?? I'd also get some 27.5 pilots and try them, then readjust the air screws....the sst's have great low end....your jetted is off somewhere. Let us know how you make out and what changes your making...Do one at a time... Quote
Banchetta Posted February 9, 2004 Report Posted February 9, 2004 If you lowered the clip, then you've richen it and should have improved the throttle response, your next step will be to adjust the air screws and try that. Start w/ .5 turn out from seat, then try 1 turn out, then 1.5, 2, 2.5 and see where the shee likes to be...If it likes the .5 or less, then try a larger pilot (27.5) and readjust the air screws......also do you clean your filter w/ K&N cleaner?? Detergents will clog the guaze in a K&N filter...make sure you use the spray oil also..I've seen people use motor oil and that'll clog the K&N also..... Quote
Nightrider Posted February 9, 2004 Report Posted February 9, 2004 If your running the stock airbox lid,then 280 is probably o.k,but you need to bump up the pilots to atleast 27.5 If its boggy on the very bottom,it will probably like the bigger pilots. My PC banshee loves a rich pilot and I can tell when its getting colder out because it gets a little bog on the bottom.I run 1/2 turn out in the winter and 3/4-1 out during the summer months.I'm borderline for 30's now.Some pipes like a richer pilot.Try stepping it up and see how it does. Quote
Ducman Posted February 9, 2004 Report Posted February 9, 2004 2002 bansheeSST fmfs, K&N with umi adaptor, with no lid 280 main jet stock pilot jet lifted needle one clip I rejetted my banshee this weekend for taking the air box lid off and a colder weather. Mods are: Air box: adapter plate W/Twin air foam filter W/ foam outerware FMF Gnarlies Jetting: Elevation 300'-600' Temp 40 to 60 degrees F. #30 pilots, air screws 2.5 out Needles stock position (3rd clip down) #290 mains I thought #290's might be a tad on the rich side but they were perfect . Did a plug chop, 2mm brown band at the base of the electrode, goes in the band quick no hesitations, pulled hard all the way to the top of 6th in sandy conditions. I talked with a local yamaha shop when getting a couple of sparkplugs to sacrafice for the plug chop and they said that the Gnarlies, Fatties, and SST's all jet pretty close to the same. With a K&N I'd say you should be pretty close to my settings on the pilot, possible raise the needle one clip, and +4 on the mains which would put you at 330 on the mains. If your colder than 40 deg. then possibly one more size on the main and if your at 1500' ele. or more then minus one size on the main. Whatever you do decide to jet it at, do a plug chop, that is the only reliable method to tell if your jetting is adequate. Quote
Justintoxicated Posted February 9, 2004 Report Posted February 9, 2004 are you sure your pilots are not plugged? or is your air filter clogged (too much oil or dust?)? Nice even smoke out of both cylinders at idle? Have you tried changing the spark plugs? I ran the stock pilots a litle lean with my fatties, and had a 320 main and it ran fine with K&N and airbox lid removed, If the weather is cold, you might need to go larger on the main, it does sound like your midrange is off, but I can't help but think midrange is also affected by the jet size, since the needles taper affects teh rate of the needle's diameter into your main jet.... I don't see how mains ONLY affect WOT (when the needle is compleatly out of the jet) But I would also imagine that they would affect your midrange somewhat also (as in if your main is just not big enough period...). This is why you need to adjust the main jet first, then find the needle settings....I would say try the 300's if you already bought them, if they help maybe try 320's (Test you WOT only) or go inbetween with 310's...Whatever yuo find gives you the most power at WOT, while your plugs look nice and brown is the keeper. Then adjust your needle settings acordingly this will adjust your midrange....I would go with a larger pilot too either a 27.5 or a 30... Make sure you bring a few clean plugs to do the testing as the plugs are eaier to read when new.. Keep the used plugs for spares... Quote
STLbanshee Posted February 9, 2004 Author Report Posted February 9, 2004 ok, so after riding yesterday, in 30 degree weather, here is one thing that happened, I was heading up a snow covered hill, and didnt really get a run at the hill, but half way up the hill I gassed it, i was in 2nd gear, and I hit WOT, and it never like hit the powerband, it was just like bummmmmmmmm, it never reved passed a certain point, wouldnt you think that it would rev higher, or start to spin the tires..? Quote
Banchetta Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 ok, so after riding yesterday, in 30 degree weather, here is one thing that happened, I was heading up a snow covered hill, and didnt really get a run at the hill, but half way up the hill I gassed it, i was in 2nd gear, and I hit WOT, and it never like hit the powerband, it was just like bummmmmmmmm, it never reved passed a certain point, wouldnt you think that it would rev higher, or start to spin the tires..? 2 questions, has this just started since you made a change w/ the jetting or has this been the problem? Also, is your tors still connected?? Little black box above the left exhaust?? Quote
Banchetta Posted February 10, 2004 Report Posted February 10, 2004 2002 bansheeSST fmfs, K&N with umi adaptor, with no lid 280 main jet stock pilot jet lifted needle one clip I rejetted my banshee this weekend for taking the air box lid off and a colder weather. Mods are: Air box: adapter plate W/Twin air foam filter W/ foam outerware FMF Gnarlies Jetting: Elevation 300'-600' Temp 40 to 60 degrees F. #30 pilots, air screws 2.5 out Needles stock position (3rd clip down) #290 mains I thought #290's might be a tad on the rich side but they were perfect . Did a plug chop, 2mm brown band at the base of the electrode, goes in the band quick no hesitations, pulled hard all the way to the top of 6th in sandy conditions. I talked with a local yamaha shop when getting a couple of sparkplugs to sacrafice for the plug chop and they said that the Gnarlies, Fatties, and SST's all jet pretty close to the same. With a K&N I'd say you should be pretty close to my settings on the pilot, possible raise the needle one clip, and +4 on the mains which would put you at 330 on the mains. If your colder than 40 deg. then possibly one more size on the main and if your at 1500' ele. or more then minus one size on the main. Whatever you do decide to jet it at, do a plug chop, that is the only reliable method to tell if your jetting is adequate. If your air screws like to be 2.5 turns out, then I'd drop your pilots to a 27.5. I bet you'll have better throttle response and better low end...You'll also have more adjustment for summer..you should turn the screws in for winter and out for summer...I find the best pilot size is when the air screws like to be between 1-1.5 turns out....good luck Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.