SemperChaos Posted July 4, 2022 Report Share Posted July 4, 2022 Ok, so I have a stupid idea/passion project. I am about 3 years out from the first bike right now. I am going to bring back the Banshee. As it stands right now the initial price point will be 12-14k. I know its a lot but I really wont know about demand and scaling until the shop is done and the first 50 bikes or so are built/sold. The plan at the moment is for the frame to be DOM steel all new. 3 minor changes relating to modern manufacturing techniques. I know people will scream for better geometry but there are a few problems with doing that. 1. huge aftermarket support for the current frame design. 2. It will no longer be remanufacturing and that makes it subject to modern emissions. 3. to many different frame options makes it cost more. I am shooting for using a lot of OEM Yamaha parts. (Still waiting on engine quotes). The white paper is for engines, steering stem, plastics, seat, and ignition(may go more modern depends on cost). Most likely single carb for less cost/tuning into a factory looking airbox (intake obviously different). If factory electronics are not possible, then there will be a "Roll over" protection incorporated into the dash(ignition shut off). Long term, I would like to see the ignition changed to drive fuel/ port oil injection. This will end up being a cylinder/ignition swap with no changes to the bottom end. As current law is written, I can remanufacture and be under the emissions rules of the year of the vehicle model. If I am able to improve emissions that will just prevent problems. Initially I want to use a non vented carb, just to show that I am moving in the direction that they like (evap regulations). Initially I will be building all the frames myself, hand cutting/fitting everything. I will be moving into laser cut/cnc bent tubing/brackets as demand goes up. This is a huge undertaking so please be patient with me. Initial updates will be slow going and I won't be able to announce stuff right away because of funding/investors. As I have things 100% set in stone I will announce. The one thing that I do not have a line on yet is a exhaust manufacture. Tooling for stampings is silly expensive and by their very nature they need to be shitty pipes that everyone is going to take off anyway. Have to deal with the space constraints of plastics and heat on the leg is an issue. The fact that most of these bikes will not stay at 357cc is not lost on me. If I do go with a better pipe for something like a 4mil stroker and just accept that it will suck on a 347. Do we hydroform the pipe becuase its going to suck anyway? Or do we take the risk and make a pipe that the customer can grow in to. I am the most conflicted on the exhaust issue not really looking for opinions just ranting a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawa110 Posted July 4, 2022 Report Share Posted July 4, 2022 Screw oil injection. Ur going to hand build frames and are worried about pipe production? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperChaos Posted July 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2022 Hand building frames is easy if you build good jigs. I learned that from building circle track cars. You do big runs of small parts and bend bars. Some of the stuff needs to be pre-notched some does not. Its mainly pre-notching from one end to get the measurement to the start of the bend. Providing you can read a measuring tape on your benders shaft travel, its pretty easy to be consistent. The top left and right frame rails I will just get pre-bent once I have achieved the correct shape on the bender. CNC mandrel bending cost per bar isint that bad when you get 100 or more done at once. Its a 2 jig operation. First jig does the main frame, second jog does all the smaller mounting points (Think welds that will not distort the frame). The first 3 frames are R&D frames to figure out where the failure points are. Keep 1 in house and send the other 2, to youtubers for the free advertisement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2otoofast4u Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 Did you smoke the same shit as Robby Gordon? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperChaos Posted July 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2022 I think with current frame prices if I can hit sub 1500 for a new frame they will sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diebog Posted July 11, 2022 Report Share Posted July 11, 2022 That’s a pretty cool idea! I was really bummed when they had to stop selling the Banshsee years back. Personally oil port injection on stuff I’ve owned in the past (jets skis) I’ve always blocked off and mixed the gas because if it gets plugged, or low you have no idea and you keep going ending up with engine damage. And it would inject to much oil and other times to little. You would need some way of progressively injecting with rpm/load and some kind of flow sensor that would cut ignition if oil wasn’t flowing (if someone forgot to top off the reservoir, got dirt in the system etc.). So for me if it’s a 2 stroke, mixing the gas is the way to go. Makes it much more simple. I do agree with the single carb idea as that’s what I’ve run on the 4-5 Banshees I’ve owned/maintained over the years. my personal I have a Cub 400, dune port, 18cc domes, 110 octane, Bel Ray H1R 50:1 with a single 38mm carb, Paul Turner mids and been running this setup for 15 years and I haven’t lost a cylinder yet. I’m sure I could squeeze a tiny bit mor hp if I had 2 carbs but for ease of tuning and the dune riding I do, it’s perfect setup for me. Even if a single carb did cut back a little performance, someone who has no clue how to sync 2 carbs so both cylinders are pulling evenly would be better off with the single carb as the adjustment is made for both cylinders. That is if both piston, rings, reeds etc are in good order. Just my .02, I’m sure someone will chime in and say the exact opposite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperChaos Posted July 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 Sent some requests off for steel quotes today. time to build the frame table. Going for 3'X6' I am bored so I am going to kick out the first prototype out of my 2 car before the shop is done. I have been looking at alot of aftermarket frames trying to look for better construction methods. I dig the laeger swing arm mounts, they just need an insert in the aluminum puck. Planning on .083 for the bend bars and .065 for the straight bars. Should make for a very durable frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diebog Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 Can’t wait to see some progress pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperChaos Posted July 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 Well its going to be slow at first. Have to go to San Diego to make the jig at the shop I used to work at. Once I get the frame I am going to replicate up on the jig, I am sure its going to be a few days of cardboard templates for the gussets. I have not seen any metric threaded inserts that I like. I am pondering sacrificing one of my cases and putting a aluminum bar. where the motor mount is so I dont have to deal with in consistent rubber. I knew I should have grabbed that junk set of cases when I saw em. the only part that is extra pain in the ass level for the frame right now is the steering stem pivot. maybe I will have an epiphany on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawa110 Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 Junk cases on offer up for cheap in so cal right now. I vote for no link rear suspension style. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperChaos Posted July 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 Well Suck me sideways steel is expensive right now. 1 G + for material for the jig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diebog Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 Ouch! Can you find material at a metal recycling place? Years ago in Sacromento there used to be this place you can find all kinds of stuff for super cheap. tracks and I beams off roller coaster, dom tubing, aluminum etc. and it was by the pound so a heck of a lot cheaper then new stuff by the foot. Just a thought, have you checked multiple suppliers. Here in Grass valley where I reside the prices vary drastically depending who you buy from. The bigger the steel shop the better the prices as they get price breaks for the amount they buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperChaos Posted July 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 Yea, all about the same price. I was being a bit excessive with the Jig/Fab Table. So I reduced it from 36X72 to 24X72. Dropped the price of the top plate in half. As well as the price of the Legs. The legs are 4x4 .120 so she will pretty much never move of flex. I am using 2x2 .250 wall on the cross rails that get tapered fasteners to weld to/build attachments off of. Next is finding a good used Cold saw. I am going to have to measure out the solid stock for the lower a-arm mounts and have those 4 cut for me. This shit would be a hell of alot simpler if I had a lathe. Thats a problem for the big shop. From my metal quotes and factoring extra for the tabs I am looking in about 500 per frame in material. Thats with me doing all the Labor. If I can sell 1 a week. then all should be good. I will most Likely start doing 250R frames as well. Just because the demand is stupid big there. That square tubing they are made out of is real junk. Finding a straight one will be difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperChaos Posted July 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 Bought a giant ass cold band saw today. WAAAY overkill. but I am quite happy with the deal. It was far to heavy for them to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinegunbanshee Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 This is awesome. Are you familiar with the sundahl frames and geometry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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