Head collant flow.

[ZillaFreak]

13 minutes ago, registered user said:

 jesus christ claude remember zilla is the same clown that brought us failed ti rods and some half ass fuel injection that never worked. you sure u want him on your team???

And remember you have brought nothing, you won't even give your real name on here. You are a joke.

AS for my "failed" thing, what makes you think they failed? 

[ClaudeMachining]

 jesus christ claude remember zilla is the same clown that brought us failed ti rods and some half ass fuel injection that never worked. you sure u want him on your team???

Rods looks good but they havent been tested yet .



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[ClaudeMachining]

Im doing the flow study for my own interest. I dont think i will reinvent the wheel.

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[Keno]

Actually increase flow rate of the coolant can hinder's its ability to cool the head. Too fast and it doesn't have enough time to absorb heat form the cylinders or disburse heat in the radiator.
As for reserving the flow, you have any actual data to back up your claim it wont work or you just guessing?

This is false according to the formula for convection. Q=ha(delta T). Also h increases as flow increases. The only time an increase in flow is detrimental, is if the flow rate causes low pressure areas that cause the coolant to boil, drastically decreasing h. So three ways to increase heat transfer, increase thermal transfer coefficient of the fluid, increase surface area, increase temperature delta.

[ZillaFreak]

3 minutes ago, Keno said:

This is false according to the formula for convection. Q=ha(delta T). Also h increases as flow increases. The only time an increase in flow is detrimental, is if the flow rate causes low pressure areas that cause the coolant to boil, drastically decreasing h. So three ways to increase heat transfer, increase thermal transfer coefficient of the fluid, increase surface area, increase temperature delta.

I am not incorrect. 

Look at your formula. q=hA (T1-T2)

q = Watts = Joules/Sec

Right away, time is important. 

h = coeff of heat transfer = W/(m2 * C)

A = Area

Time is very important when talking about any heat transfer. If the fluid is moving too fast, it doesn't give enough time for the fluid to pull heat from the engine. The coolant wont boil over, but the engine will run hot.

Joules is energy, heat is energy. The formula is calculating how much heat per time it can transfer. So if you shorten the time, it pulls less heat out. 

Think of MPH, traveling at 80MPH, in 30 mins you went 40 miles, in 15 mins you went 20 miles.

 

TIME is important.

[ClaudeMachining]

IIRC, better flow is always better. Brandon from Mull did a good post about that here on bhq

[registered user]

claude your domes looked good from what i seen. if they have effective cooling around the plug they will b even better.  i have no doubts the factory impeller should be in the trash bin. maybe theres something better on the market already or you could make one

the idea of enter the water at front of the head first ,might sound good but i dont think it would really be any better than how it currently is without cutting and welding and plugging some of the passges to change the routing altogether. becarefull zilla doesnt lead u to a dead end road

[ZillaFreak]

2 minutes ago, registered user said:

claude your domes looked good from what i seen. if they have effective cooling around the plug they will b even better.  i have no doubts the factory impeller should be in the trash bin. maybe theres something better on the market already or you could make one

the idea of enter the water at front of the head first ,might sound good but i dont think it would really be any better than how it currently is without cutting and welding and plugging some of the passges to change the routing altogether. becarefull zilla doesnt lead u to a dead end road

What road have I lead him down? You clearly have no clue what is going on and whose idea it was for reserve flow.

 

Are you ever going to give your name or are you going to be a coward and hide behind the screen? I am still waiting for you to actual create something for a banshee.

[Keno]

I am not incorrect. 
Look at your formula. q=hA (T1-T2)
q = Watts = Joules/Sec
Right away, time is important. 
h = coeff of heat transfer = W/(m2 * C)
A = Area
Time is very important when talking about any heat transfer. If the fluid is moving too fast, it doesn't give enough time for the fluid to pull heat from the engine. The coolant wont boil over, but the engine will run hot.
Joules is energy, heat is energy. The formula is calculating how much heat per time it can transfer. So if you shorten the time, it pulls less heat out. 
Think of MPH, traveling at 80MPH, in 30 mins you went 40 miles, in 15 mins you went 20 miles.
 
TIME is important.

SMH

[ZillaFreak]

Just now, Keno said:

1 hour ago, ZillaFreak said:

I am not incorrect. 
Look at your formula. q=hA (T1-T2)
q = Watts = Joules/Sec
Right away, time is important. 
h = coeff of heat transfer = W/(m2 * C)
A = Area
Time is very important when talking about any heat transfer. If the fluid is moving too fast, it doesn't give enough time for the fluid to pull heat from the engine. The coolant wont boil over, but the engine will run hot.
Joules is energy, heat is energy. The formula is calculating how much heat per time it can transfer. So if you shorten the time, it pulls less heat out. 
Think of MPH, traveling at 80MPH, in 30 mins you went 40 miles, in 15 mins you went 20 miles.
 
TIME is important.

SMH

Ya, you should be shaking your head.

Time is important. I do heat test all the time at work. Both convection and forced convection. The speed of the fluid is very important and way too fast has caused our resistor to fail. 

Faster fluid flow is not always better.

[registered user]

In this post I want to discuss three easy ways to improve engine cooling for your dirt bike or ATV and explain why they are effective.

As improvements are made to an engine that increase its power, the amount of heat the engine will create will also increase. Effectively removing heat from the engine and cooling it is very important as the power output of the engine goes up. The cooler an engine runs, the more power it can produce. There are three ways that the aftermarket attempts to improve the cooling system of a particular engine.

1. Increase flow through the cooling system.
2. Increase the cooling capacity of the radiators.
3. Increase the pressure of the cooling system.

Let's dive in.

1. Increase flow through the cooling system

The flow through the cooling system can be increased by installing a water pump impeller designed to increase the flow rate of the coolant. The reason increasing the flow rate of coolant works is because the rate of heat transfer from the engine to the cooling system is directly proportional to the mass flow rate of coolant. This is thermodynamics jargon, but there are two key parts to consider. First, how much coolant is flowing, and second, at what speed the coolant is flowing. The more coolant that flows and the faster it flows will reduce the temperature difference between the point where the coolant enters into the engine and where it exits. This next part is not quite as intuitive. When the temperature difference between the inlet and outlet is reduced, the average coolant temperature is lowered. When the average coolant temperature is lowered the engine will run cooler. This is why fitting a water pump, which increases the flow of coolant through the engine, improves cooling.

 

2. Increase the cooling capacity of the radiators

Radiators consist of a series of tubes and fins which run from the top to the bottom of the radiator. These are often referred to as the radiator’s cores. As coolant enters the radiator it moves through the series of tubes and heat is transferred from the coolant to the fins. Air passes over the fins and heat is transferred from the fins to the air. This transfer of heat from coolant to air is how radiators reduce the temperature of the coolant.

Coolant temperatures can be reduced by upgrading radiators in three ways, by increasing the frontal area of the radiators, by making the radiators thicker, or by using materials with better heat transfer properties for the cores. For all practical purposes, increasing the radiators’ frontal area and improving the core materials is rarely a viable option for dirt bike applications. This is because there is little room for the radiators to begin with and they are susceptible to damage, making the use of expensive core materials a risky affair. Unfortunately, both of these options are better improvements to make before resorting to increasing the thickness of the radiators.

Increasing the thickness of a radiator is not as efficient of an improvement as increasing the frontal area of the radiator. In order for thicker radiators to cool more effectively than their stock counterparts, airflow past the radiators is key. When the thickness of a radiator is increased, air must travel a greater distance through the radiator before exiting. The speed the air is traveling plays a big role in determining how quickly the air heats up as it moves through the radiator. If the air is not traveling fast enough through the radiator, the air temperature will rise and equal the coolant temperature before reaching the end of the radiator. Once this happens, heat transfer stops and whatever portion of the radiator remains will not help with cooling. In order for a thicker radiator to be effective, air must flow quickly enough through it so that the exiting air temperature is at, or better yet, below the coolant temperature. In conclusion, benefits from adding thicker radiators will be more prominent in applications where speeds are relatively high. Whereas in applications where the bike is hardly moving, improved cooling may not be noticeable.

 

3. Increase the pressure of the cooling system

The last alteration to the cooling system that can be made is to install a high pressure radiator cap. As coolant temperature increases, pressure increases inside the cooling system. The radiator cap is designed to be the pressure release point in the cooling system in the event that too much pressure builds up. This can occur as a result of overheating or a blown head gasket for example. By designing the radiator cap to be the weak link in the system, other parts of the system, such as seals, don’t end up getting damaged from being over pressurized. The radiator cap features a plug and spring on its underside. The spring is designed to compress once a certain pressure is reached, at which point the plug will move upwards and uncover a pressure release hole where excess pressure will be vented. The coolant’s boiling point and ability to conduct heat are necessary factors in understanding why a high pressure radiator cap can help improve engine cooling. Water alone boils at 212°F (100°C) while a 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze boils at 223°F (106.1C). Radiator cap pressure designations are usually advertised in bar, with most stock radiator caps designed to withstand pressures up to 1.1 bar (16psi). The more pressure a fluid is under, the more difficult it becomes for the fluid to vaporize, and the higher its boiling point becomes. When water is under 1.1 bar of pressure, the temperature water will boil at is 260°F (127°C) while a 50/50 antifreeze mix will boil at 271°F (133°C). By installing a radiator cap designed to withstand higher pressures, an additional increase in the coolant’s boiling point will be seen. High pressure caps are usually designed to withstand 1.3 bar (19psi) of pressure. This 0.2 bar (3psi) increase in pressure over the stock system will increase the boiling point of water or antifreeze by 8.7°F (4.83°C). This will then bring the boiling point of pure water or a 50/50 antifreeze mix to approximately 269°F (132°C) and 280°F (138°C) respectively.

While this small temperature increase alone won’t do a lot for your engine, coupling a high pressure cap and using coolants with better heat transfer properties can do wonders. Antifreeze (ethylene glycol) alone is not an inherently good conductor of heat. In fact, pure antifreeze conducts heat about half as well as water, while a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water conducts heat approximately three quarters as efficiently as pure water. This means a cooling system using a 50/50 mix of antifreeze would have to flow faster than a cooling system filled with pure distilled water in order to achieve the same cooling efficiency. What this means for you is significant cooling gains can be made by using distilled water and an additive called “Water Wetter” in place of an antifreeze-water mix. Water Wetter is an additive that improves water’s “wetting” abilities (another whole subject), adds corrosion resistance, and slightly increases the boiling point of water. A high pressure radiator cap in conjunction with distilled water and Water Wetter as the coolant is by far the best route to go for high performance applications where freezing is not an issue. For applications which must still be resistant to freezing, the antifreeze-water ratio can be altered in favor of mixtures incorporating more water than antifreeze so that the cooling efficiency of the mixture is improved. Just bear in mind the freezing point of the mixture as it is thinned with water will be reduced, so you will need to pay close attention to the environment you are operating in so that the coolant is never susceptible to freezing. A frozen coolant system can ruin an engine and makes for a very bad day!

[ZillaFreak]

Nice copy and paste. Still haven't given your name.

As for the increase pressure of the cap, how does increase the boiling point actually increase the cooling abilities?

If your coolant never gets above 200F, why do you need to increase the pressure of the system so the coolant can reach 280F? Unless you are running your coolant over the threshold, putting a higher cap on your radiator will net you no better cooling.

[ClaudeMachining]

Nice copy and paste. Still haven't given your name.
As for the increase pressure of the cap, how does increase the boiling point actually increase the cooling abilities?
If your coolant never gets above 200F, why do you need to increase the pressure of the system so the coolant can reach 280F? Unless you are running your coolant over the threshold, putting a higher cap on your radiator will net you no better cooling.

I think it have something to do with delamination of the flow on the surface (walls)

More pressure will keep the fluid "sticked" to the wall, so better heat transfert.

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[ZillaFreak]

1 minute ago, ClaudeMachining said:

I think it have something to do with delamination of the flow on the surface (walls)

More pressure will keep the fluid "sticked" to the wall, so better heat transfert.

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Pressure doesn't increase in the system unless the coolant temp rises. So putting a higher pressure cap does nothing unless your coolant temps are higher than the current cap can hold.

[ClaudeMachining]

Im not talking about that cap stuff.

Im only saying that pressure help fluid to "stick" on the walls for better heat exchange.

Pressure doesn't increase in the system unless the coolant temp rises. So putting a higher pressure cap does nothing unless your coolant temps are higher than the current cap can hold.

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