Beed drag gearing & setup advice

[This old banshee]

Sorry for a detailed post, but I'm going to give you all the rundown of the basics and my situation. (Be patient, read through it and give me your advice.)

  Thanks in advance.

Okay I need some advice and help understanding some drag basics..and some instructions..I'm not new to drag racing..nit at all but the sand thing.????? 

 My bike was just rebuilt.after it lost  it's crank 3 rides after I bought it. Basic specs are as follows:

1.) Hot Rods 4mil .

2 .) Chariot Head w Custom domes. (Specs unknown).

3.) 33mm PWKs.

4 .)  Trail/MX port on STOCK cylinders w 65 mm pistions

(Specs unknown).

5.) Stock gearing @ 14 -41.

6.) FMF  Fatty pipes.

7.) V Force 4 reeds on Billet intakes

8..) Paddles came w bike are as follows:  Skat Track hualers (was told these are very small) .? 

20 x 10 x 8.

9.( Stick length swingarm(will NIT be changed..Thus bike dies not wheelie..I thinks it's due to the A arm /YFZ shock set up that's on it. It was set up for MX and desert racing.

Here's the rub, I raced my friends (drag raced) as that's how they have fun. No traps/ lights etc.. just PISMO beach 1-5 gear runs. Here's what I ran against friends bikes :

A.) Trinity 400cc stock strike Cheetah Cub.

 B.)500+ cc Suzuki Dr Q. Quadzilla.

C.) Special one off  380cc Rob Selvy built 250 R  250R 3 wheeler.

I lost to all 3 pretty handily, the QuadZilla pulls 8 bikes on me by 3rd gear. It's has BIG low RPM power.

Now I realize, My bike us set up as a trail bike, as I still want to be able to ride all over by my house, in the dedert it feels like I have a shit ton of mid range power? And building good power by the top of 4th gear  into 5th.seemed as if I'd catch up a little they stopped pulling on me ?

 Here is what confuses me...ALOT U need to be schooled.

 I'm pretty versed in street dragracing in RZ 350s ( basuclly Banshee motors) for newbies whi font know  where the Banshee motor originated and Liter bikes etc. ALWAYS go with SMALLER front sprockets..Always for 30 years ,makes  a bike substantially quicker in the 1/4 Mile.

 Now I've been advised to go to around a 15 -43 gearing,  which is basiclly the same ratio as stock? ...but I've been told it will allow me to launch  accelerate faster??  But it doesn't make sense to my  brain...its the SAME ratio ? WHY CANT I JUST USE A 13 FRONT which is a lower ratio ??. Please EXPLAIN this to me..tell me what Im missing and what gearing I should run to drag race these guys next time we go out  in November...I wanna beat at least some of them...lol

 My motor is NOT going to be altered out side of jetting..it runs good and safe...I hope..lol

(Tell me what you think of my ideas)...to be able to swap it into the fastest possible dragbike for when we go to the dunes, I'll swap it all back to trail riding at my Mohave desert home.

1.) Re- gear to what a proven gear ratio. ADVISE Me what to use.

2.) Swap a set of Matt Shearer Small Bore in frames drag pipes vs my FMF Fatties..Do you think they will make a difference ?? Be Honest. If he's willing to Dyno his set vs my fatties in front if needed I'll buy them...if there substantially faster for drag racing   I was told there useless for MX/trail riding. What say you folks?  So I'll keep both sets to swap if necessary.

3.) I was advised my rear tires are not good for drag racing in the sand...what DIA.  should I look for ? If that's the case.

 

OKAY...THATS IT...LOL LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU ALL THINK...AND LETS GO GET EM NEXT TIME !!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[specialblend07]

You have a trail motor and are trying to race bikes setup for drag racing.

 

You need a whole new setup.

[ZillaFreak]

First, please go back and fix your hundred typos. It will make it easier for people to follow your post.

Second, you need to know exactly what is done to your bike. Figure out the porting number, the dome size, etc. You most likely have a mismatched setup and this is killing your power.

Third, you have zero chance against those 3 bikes currently. If you are losing by 8 lengths to that zilla, you need major overhaul of your setup.

 

[This old banshee]

Oh come in dudes...don't be all upitty with yourselves

Can't correct my Typos, There's no provision on my screen, seem to have format /smartphone issues. Any advice here is welcomed ...or do I need to disassemble and spec my phone too..😊😁

Why start off with the such comments ? Kinda narrsasistic and nit very helpful.  Why not say welcome to the forum & hello and your opinion as to what the  specific questions I had. 

It's clearly obvious that it's not a "dedicated" drag bike, you can drag race anything..and we all do that no matter what we ride, all of us...lol. right. Throw me a bone 👍 not a problem.

 I'm just having fun with friends. No lights , no set 1/8 or 1/4 mile mile,no timing..just old friends doin what we do .

  So you tell me a set of Matt Shearers "stamped" one size FITS ALL small bores, is dependant upon my squish,intake/transfer and exhuast dimensions...yea right...not likley, they use these pipes in Banshees from stock up to 450+ CPIs with every imaginable configuration,all with good results.

 Id ubderstand if U were utiluzing spec built one off coned sectionals. Sure...then that would help . But for average basic gains for a dude who wants to drag race is "trail" bike.  Lol 😂

 I'm betting they work and will help considerably, then I can swap back to my FMFs for trail bombing...just wanted some feedback

 Same goes for gearing, from stock to Cheetahs...you don't "need" these numbers.  You don't need them at all for a play bike.

As for the gearing. I  just wanted a difinitive explanation as to why a 15 -43 is better than a 14-41  when there exactly the same mathematical ratio. This I'd like to know if there is a factual reason.

The motor was built by a vendor here whom everyone knows and seems to respect, there's  no mismatch ... I can get the info, and will..but it's 100% not required. And No I won't post the builder..I'm happy , but would like some help maximizing it's "limited" drag potential . That's all.

 So still welcoming constructive replies, and as for the 1st 2 replies. You can still grab beers 🍺 from my cooler.. just give me something to work with..it's basic. 

[Ayesully810]

hello and welcome to the forum.  and dont mind zilla hes the ball buster around here.

specialblend already said it, a mild trail bike IN SAND against bikes that are long legged, you dont stand a chance.  you need some more mods  because just switching to some shearers or changing your gearing wont give the checkered flag.  Now if you want suggestions on what to do to your bike, the options are endless, just depends on how much money you have to spend.  But for about 800-1200 should give you the power you are looking for to be competitive on a play level

[This old banshee]

Yeah I understand where you guys coming from the Builder did MX/ hardcore port job. he said I would have more power than I would know what to do with on a trail and he is totally right it is far beyond my capability to ride at its limit or even close to it, it is a arm yanker once it gets going..out side of the drags..my bike seemed to run right with them, she hurs pretty hard in 2-3. But my clutch said adios amigo, so I didn't get a chance to make adjustments it evaluate.

 I had my bike tuned here in So. Cal . I said to get my bike safely as I live at 3200 feet but I was going to be at sea level on a fresh engine my bike dynoed at 66. 5 horsepower but 40 lb of torque.

 My friends stock stroke cheetah makes 70 and I'm assuming a lot of torque likely in the mid-40s

250R Big Bore made 67 h.p. last year at CT but I realize his bike is far lighter. 

The Quadzilla nobody knows you just bought it so he could beat his brother on the 3-wheeler he wasn't quite there but close

The Builder totally did what he said he would and what I wanted however he did say he could easily get me 10 more horsepower but it would involve different pipes, and more aggressive Port work, along with 35 PWKs he likes but said it would definitely be not as responsive on trails and I would have a lot more shifting to deal with. He advised me trail riding a drag ported  banshee is just a bummer and steered me to a MX Port job. My bike is also pretty heavy caring 6 gallons of fuel 9in lights and brackets and when on desert tires run brutally heavy run-flats... I really like it it is really fast but I would like that little extra Edge next time just to see if I could squeak in there I can already run side-by-side the low gears maybe even faster but it sure would be fun on the straightaways if I could at least run even or close enough. My clutch is pretty gone it's the one thing I did not replace it looked good to me so I chose to stay with it. I abused it and obviously made a mistake LOL.

I think I will just do gearing clean up the carburation and try that if a set a Shearers comes along at a decent price I will try them having owned RZ350s in every incarnation for 30 years I know a good exhaust pipe can give me t 3-4 bike lengths in a drag race.. but that's on a track or a drag strip I am totally unfamiliar with sand outside of my tri Z it's the only dirt thing I've owned &  ridden in many years. 

  

 

 

 

[Ayesully810]

Sounds like your builder who ever he is has already given you some solid advice on how to make it run better on the big end. good luck

[kawa110]

We’re did you find a local dyno?

[JTmachining]

Way to much for me to read here. Use search option and get back with questions that info isn’t posted

[ZillaFreak]

13 hours ago, This old banshee said:

Oh come in dudes...don't be all upitty with yourselves

Can't correct my Typos, There's no provision on my screen, seem to have format /smartphone issues. Any advice here is welcomed ...or do I need to disassemble and spec my phone too..😊😁

Why start off with the such comments ? Kinda narrsasistic and nit very helpful.  Why not say welcome to the forum & hello and your opinion as to what the  specific questions I had. 

It's clearly obvious that it's not a "dedicated" drag bike, you can drag race anything..and we all do that no matter what we ride, all of us...lol. right. Throw me a bone 👍 not a problem.

 I'm just having fun with friends. No lights , no set 1/8 or 1/4 mile mile,no timing..just old friends doin what we do .

  So you tell me a set of Matt Shearers "stamped" one size FITS ALL small bores, is dependant upon my squish,intake/transfer and exhuast dimensions...yea right...not likley, they use these pipes in Banshees from stock up to 450+ CPIs with every imaginable configuration,all with good results.

 Id ubderstand if U were utiluzing spec built one off coned sectionals. Sure...then that would help . But for average basic gains for a dude who wants to drag race is "trail" bike.  Lol 😂

 I'm betting they work and will help considerably, then I can swap back to my FMFs for trail bombing...just wanted some feedback

 Same goes for gearing, from stock to Cheetahs...you don't "need" these numbers.  You don't need them at all for a play bike.

As for the gearing. I  just wanted a difinitive explanation as to why a 15 -43 is better than a 14-41  when there exactly the same mathematical ratio. This I'd like to know if there is a factual reason.

The motor was built by a vendor here whom everyone knows and seems to respect, there's  no mismatch ... I can get the info, and will..but it's 100% not required. And No I won't post the builder..I'm happy , but would like some help maximizing it's "limited" drag potential . That's all.

 So still welcoming constructive replies, and as for the 1st 2 replies. You can still grab beers 🍺 from my cooler.. just give me something to work with..it's basic. 

You can fix your typos with a smartphone, just learn to spell.

As for shearer, they do depend on porting and dome design. It is like saying, you can put a 4mil crank and not worry about domes or porting. Everything matter if you want it to run correctly. Like I said before, sounds like you have a halfass setup and you have zero intention of fixing this.

15/43=2.867. 14/41=2.929. They are not mathematical the same. Also, larger sprockets means better chain grip and less bending of the chain around the sprocket meaning less loss from friction.

It is 100% required to know the info so people can give you better advise. It is very hard to give you better advise when you wont give any info about your current setup.

It is basic, how about you give us something to work with so we can help you. If you think what steve or myself said wasn't constructive, you are clueless. You can't drag race and expect to win when using a trail engine and setup.

[Toybreaker]

Want to be “competitive” against a built 380 trike?

 

go buy another banshee.

And build it to drag race

[This old banshee]

Alrighty then, I see where this is going...lol. In not seeking a dedicated drag bike I thought I was clear about that...lol I built the bike I want, and it's close to delivering what we talked about..just need a little more (read below)

"learn how to spell"...lol what a dude👍 Nut sack buster, you are. You try typing this little f****** screen with big fingers and no glasses lol🤣 Keep it coming.. every forum needs the equivalent of the wild eyed drunk dude  talking shit & throwing Haymakers.. sounds like that's you👍 it's all good.

Thanks for the gearing, lesson , while not the best example I provided I appreciate a  constructive response. I will start researching that.

 As far as the pipes go, I spoke with them, their pipes in question are all (premade stamped)..designed to target a vast range of engine builds, of which my build  certainly falls under. Again.. I agree a spec built motor, requires sectional coned pipes..Just like a competitive roadracer , different pipes for different tracks.

 My Banshee is crude by comparison. It's better setup than OEM but still not an dedicated spec designed blueprinted engine. 

  No such thing as a stupid question..We all learned this stuff from others before us..all of us.

 There's absolutely nothing wrong with this motor setup, "1 billion Chinamen can't be wrong"..is the saying..that why I subbed out the builder, I knew I'd be happy. Like I mentioned, the bike is strong & keeps pace when just riding, in roll ons I shoot out ahead.. I do have more power out of corners available to me than their bikes do, and FU#K can this thing jump!  they unfortunately cannot really go aggessive MX or trail riding they have swingarms that are too long.. The Quad Zilla is all stock, he wants to extend the swingarm, I'm trying to get him to leave it ...stock,!!  It's a massive chunk of Aluminum, a thing of beauty ..

 I wanted a bike that can do it all,  (which I know it is is) I shouldn't be surprised. It's just.after drag racing them and seeing hiw my Banshee accelerated..i feel I'm close..really close....lol  which us addictive as I just want this ,4 bike lengths I feel I lost to gearing and motor and weight.. honestly I am happy with the way it is but it would be fun to be neck-and-neck with the guys. as I know them they will go out and drop $3, 000 into their Motors just so that it could be quicker that's the fun of it,!! I've always been the underdog and actually relish that

 The builder assured me I'd lay waste to any drag port engine on trails or a MX track... After riding it, I have have utter confidence in the shop 🙄😁 I do my research regarding shops and individuals I hadH Harry Klemm build my 350cc Tri Z , and recomebded Rob Selvy to build all my friends engines including a 1 off 380cc Kawasaki Tecate , Jason Hall for my other friends bike, I feel I made sone good choices for us.

  On my old RZ350s, I never had my port specs...just average Spec2 porting or Tooney ported cylinders on my bike1st RZs wayyy back in 86.  I've won many roadaces and drag races in those motors

(Yes I totally agree)  it's better to have it all optimized in most cases, but ...One can get by with old school blunt hammers...lol       My race RZs produced  68-72 h.p. on YPVS cylinders, and @ dragstrips I was able to acheive 11:40 in the 1/4 mile in YPVS cylinders on a daily rider RZ my street FZRs and GSXRs were all high 9s streetbikes,so in the 80s a lil 347cc 2 stoke  in the mid 11s was pretty respectable.. Now I could easily get into the 10s with a RZ350 with CPI cylinders,lockups and programmable ignition etc. ...

 With my Banshee running so rich, and my clutch virtually useless, I know there's room for substantial  improvement,( I know it's not a drag motor)...duh I could have paid the guy ro build be a 80+ h.p. stock cylinder machine.. easily. But like I said we can race anything, we all do..it ain't about trophys .it's just fun and ribbing w friends

  I've been around various race bikes my entire life, I'm confident .."not cocky"..that with the changes I stated, I will be right there with them.  Again we're not doing official sand drags..just simple inpromptu  drag races. 

 All I need is around 4 bikes..I'm pretty sure I can acheive that😁 I think the clutch letting loose made it impossible for me to even try. But the first several runs, were reasonable for me to now evaluate in my head.

   I'll let you all know in November, win lose or draw...it's all good fun!

Also Kawa110.

  While not exactly local, had the bike to Santa Fe Springs to have it tuned, he's great no bullshit, no bad mouthing other builders...(that's one thing I don't tolerate) he just gets it done. While not the builder, he did exactly what he thought best..As it's a new 3k motor and tranny rebuild , it was detuned a little for safety at sea level from that inital figure I posted above.

 I'm in the Mohave Desert so anywhere in So.Cal is as local as it gets...lol

 

Thanks guys, 

[specialblend07]

Whoa.

[This old banshee]

4 minutes ago, specialblend07 said:

Whoa.

Yeah yeah... I know my posts are long and they're not for the faint of heart.👍 Definitely if you don't have patience, it's best to not read them 😂

[kawa110]

Ever ride Johnson valley or Sunfair lake bed, or Giant rock?