Difficult to get moving without stalling

[Killawattz]

I searched but didn't find anything related to this question.  I have an 05, and to get it moving from a dead start on a level surface, requires about 1/2 throttle and a lot of clutch play.  It's somewhat lessened once it warms up, but still takes a lot of gas to get it going.  Sometimes it will "bog down" and stall, and I'm not sure if this is normal.  Recently got my gf a 400ex, and while I understand the 400EX is a 4 stroke, you can almost just let out the clutch with no throttle and it starts moving no problem.

Is this just a banshee thing?  I've had no problems otherwise, except for the occasional backfire.

[97Screamer]

Not normal, nor is an occasional backfire. I would start by inspecting the clutch. 

 

[Killawattz]

1 hour ago, 97Screamer said:

Not normal, nor is an occasional backfire. I would start by inspecting the clutch. 

 

Not sure what you mean, the clutch appears to work fine.  Not even sure what I would be looking for.

[97Screamer]

25 minutes ago, Killawattz said:

Not sure what you mean, the clutch appears to work fine.  Not even sure what I would be looking for.

On a hard, flat surface my shees start moving barely touching the throttle, 1/8 or less. If you need to get to 1/2 throttle to make it move I would make sure the clutch isn't excessively worn or out of adjustment and slipping. If this were the case you would notice slipping when ridding too but if you don't know what that feels like it might be less noticeable. Not trying to be offensive when I say that, just not sure how long you've had the bike and how familiar you are with them. Could also be a pilot circuit problem with the jetting/carbs. 

[Killawattz]

10 minutes ago, 97Screamer said:

On a hard, flat surface my shees start moving barely touching the throttle, 1/8 or less. If you need to get to 1/2 throttle to make it move I would make sure the clutch isn't excessively worn or out of adjustment and slipping. If this were the case you would notice slipping when ridding too but if you don't know what that feels like it might be less noticeable. Not trying to be offensive when I say that, just not sure how long you've had the bike and how familiar you are with them. Could also be a pilot circuit problem with the jetting/carbs. 

No offense taken, I don't really know anything.  It bogs down a lot when trying to move from a stop, but other than that, it shifts gears fine.  But if I moved the throttle to 1/8 and then slowly let out the clutch, it's going to bog down and stall out. 

It's had a lot of things done to it, such as pipes, exhaust, a boost bottle (which I want to get rid of) and looks like some sort of custom swing arm.  I just don't know much about how it's all put together, I need a manual.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Killawattz

[97Screamer]

Yes a manual will be your best friend. PM me your email address and I'll send you a pdf of the Yamaha manual. Bogging and dying leads me to believe its carbs and not clutch. If you post up all your known mods and your elevation and temperature the guys around here should be able to help you get your jetting close. There is a good chance your pilot jets are clogged from gas sitting in the bowls and cleaning them could solve your problem. There are also a dozen other things it could be.  Does your bike start easily without using the throttle? Does it bog when its rolling and you get on the gas? Pilot circuit controls up to about 1/4 throttle so if you have problems in all situation under 1/4 throttle that would be a tell tell sign.

5 minutes ago, Killawattz said:

No offense taken, I don't really know anything.  It bogs down a lot when trying to move from a stop, but other than that, it shifts gears fine.  But if I moved the throttle to 1/8 and then slowly let out the clutch, it's going to bog down and stall out. 

It's had a lot of things done to it, such as pipes, exhaust, a boost bottle (which I want to get rid of) and looks like some sort of custom swing arm.  I just don't know much about how it's all put together, I need a manual.

 

[Killawattz]

1 minute ago, 97Screamer said:

Yes a manual will be your best friend. PM me your email address and I'll send you a pdf of the Yamaha manual. Bogging and dying leads me to believe its carbs and not clutch. If you post up all your known mods and your elevation and temperature the guys around here should be able to help you get your jetting close. There is a good chance your pilot jets are clogged from gas sitting in the bowls and cleaning them could solve your problem. There are also a dozen other things it could be.  Does your bike start easily without using the throttle? Does it bog when its rolling and you get on the gas? Pilot circuit controls up to about 1/4 throttle so if you have problems in all situation under 1/4 throttle that would be a tell tell sign.

 

I have a Clymer manual on the way, should be here in a couple days.  I'll PM you my email for the yamaha one though, much appreciated.  No, it does not start easy, gotta press the throttle to keep it idleing til it warms up.  However once it's warmed up, it'll start just with a kick and hold idle fine.  I don't think it bogs when it's rolling, I'd have to test it though to be sure.

[97Screamer]

3 minutes ago, Killawattz said:

I have a Clymer manual on the way, should be here in a couple days.  I'll PM you my email for the yamaha one though, much appreciated.  No, it does not start easy, gotta press the throttle to keep it idleing til it warms up.  However once it's warmed up, it'll start just with a kick and hold idle fine.  I don't think it bogs when it's rolling, I'd have to test it though to be sure.

Now I'm going to say carbs or compression. I don't think its the clutch. Start at the easiest to test, I would do a compression test and if its good clean your carbs. Good compression depends on what mods but stock is 120ish and will give you problems starting cold around 100. 

[Killawattz]

13 minutes ago, 97Screamer said:

Now I'm going to say carbs or compression. I don't think its the clutch. Start at the easiest to test, I would do a compression test and if its good clean your carbs. Good compression depends on what mods but stock is 120ish and will give you problems starting cold around 100. 

Well to test your theory I just took it out to get the mail (my mail box is almost a mile away) and of course it was on good behavior.  Had no problems getting it moving with light throttle...  It still bogs, and like you say, it's only under 1/4 throttle.  By bogs, I mean, you'll just hear that low brrp sound, like its almost at an extremely low RPM.  It does not do it noticeably once moving, however.  I'll get a compression tester, but wouldn't low compression have other symptoms?  Because it's certainly not lacking in power, I've even compared it to other banshees.  It really hauls ass.  I get even exhaust pulses out of both pipes, though one pipe seems to accumulate more carbon than the other for whatever reason.

Though I do worry that whoever put all these mods on it, didn't up the jet properly to compensate.  Maybe the reason it's fast is because it's running very lean.  I'm not sure, gonna have to test compression and open up the carbs and have a look.

Thank you very much for the help, it's highly appreciated.

[97Screamer]

1 minute ago, Killawattz said:

Well to test your theory I just took it out to get the mail (my mail box is almost a mile away) and of course it was on good behavior.  Had no problems getting it moving with light throttle...  It still bogs, and like you say, it's only under 1/4 throttle.  By bogs, I mean, you'll just hear that low brrp sound, like its almost at an extremely low RPM.  It does not do it noticeably once moving, however.  I'll get a compression tester, but wouldn't low compression have other symptoms?  Because it's certainly not lacking in power, I've even compared it to other banshees.  It really hauls ass.  I get even exhaust pulses out of both pipes, though one pipe seems to accumulate more carbon than the other for whatever reason.

Though I do worry that whoever put all these mods on it, didn't up the jet properly to compensate.  Maybe the reason it's fast is because it's running very lean.  I'm not sure, gonna have to test compression and open up the carbs and have a look.

Thank you very much for the help, it's highly appreciated.

Yes, if its down on compression you would notice a lack of power but if you didn't know what the bike felt like at full compression you might not notice. You wouldn't be the first to buy a banshee of unknown origin, think the motor is great and then two weeks later be back here asking about top end kits. When motors start to wear it is also more noticeable when cold. As they warm up pistons expand and they'll run hard. Not saying your top end is bad, just saying it might be. A compression test will tell you for sure. If you have an aftermarket head you'd have to take the domes out to know what it should be (unless you already know what size domes). Regardless of the compression I would open up the carbs, clean all the passages and see what size jets are in there and if that size makes sense for your location and mods. Good luck!

[Killawattz]

5 minutes ago, 97Screamer said:

Yes, if its down on compression you would notice a lack of power but if you didn't know what the bike felt like at full compression you might not notice. You wouldn't be the first to buy a banshee of unknown origin, think the motor is great and then two weeks later be back here asking about top end kits. When motors start to wear it is also more noticeable when cold. As they warm up pistons expand and they'll run hard. Not saying your top end is bad, just saying it might be. A compression test will tell you for sure. If you have an aftermarket head you'd have to take the domes out to know what it should be (unless you already know what size domes). Regardless of the compression I would open up the carbs, clean all the passages and see what size jets are in there and if that size makes sense for your location and mods. Good luck!

It has FMF gold series fatty pipes, fmf powercore2 exhaust, white brothers boost bottle, and the swing arm says PRM products.  Only other mods that I know of are cosmetic/non mechanical in nature.  I'm at 3400 ft elevation.

[97Screamer]

2 minutes ago, Killawattz said:

It has FMF gold series fatty pipes, fmf powercore2 exhaust, white brothers boost bottle, and the swing arm says PRM products.  Only other mods that I know of are cosmetic/non mechanical in nature.  I'm at 3400 ft elevation.

Its been a long time since I jetted stock carbs and know nothing about that altitude so I'm going to stay away from giving you numbers. There is a jetting forum here that if your patient you can find any combo you can dream up. Other things that will matter include: are you running a stock airbox with lid? Reeds? Temperature?

[Killawattz]

2 minutes ago, 97Screamer said:

Its been a long time since I jetted stock carbs and know nothing about that altitude so I'm going to stay away from giving you numbers. There is a jetting forum here that if your patient you can find any combo you can dream up. Other things that will matter include: are you running a stock airbox with lid? Reeds? Temperature?

Airbox is stock, no idea what reeds even are, and it's tucson so really hot weather, generally 90+ til december.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Killawattz

[Jereme6655]

11 hours ago, Killawattz said:

Airbox is stock, no idea what reeds even are, and it's tucson so really hot weather, generally 90+ til december.

So I've noticed from a few descriptions you've given and also a few comments.......and this is a serious question....I am in no way busting your balls or anything. .... Have you ever ridden a 2 stroke before???

 

Like I said. Not busting your balls. I've had two people who have had me check out their bikes because they had really bad "bogging issues"...... Needless to say they were perfectly fine.... They were just guys who had only ever ridden 4 stroke quads. Watching them scratch their heads when I took off for a test ride just fine was funny. Poor dudes looked like they were learning to drive a stick for the first time haha

[Killawattz]

13 hours ago, Jereme6655 said:

So I've noticed from a few descriptions you've given and also a few comments.......and this is a serious question....I am in no way busting your balls or anything. .... Have you ever ridden a 2 stroke before???

 

Like I said. Not busting your balls. I've had two people who have had me check out their bikes because they had really bad "bogging issues"...... Needless to say they were perfectly fine.... They were just guys who had only ever ridden 4 stroke quads. Watching them scratch their heads when I took off for a test ride just fine was funny. Poor dudes looked like they were learning to drive a stick for the first time haha

I'm not some special snow flake, no need to try not to offend me, sometimes people need a little ball busting.  No, the banshee is the first 2 stroke bike I've ever had.  I can take off just fine, it just takes a lot of throttle and careful clutch work to do so.  But...being that it is the only 2 stroke I've ever had, I have no reference to compare to know if the way it is behaving is normal or not.

It's definitely rideable, but I think 97Screamer is right, it does bog at 1/4 throttle and below.  It just doesn't take well to light throttle inputs.  I can get around that by just giving it more gas and doing a burn out whenever I take off from a stop, but I'm not sure that's the way it's "supposed" to be.

Other than that it's a blast, no other complaints other than the fact it can be difficult to get started at times.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Killawattz