Water pump impeller

[EaCastillo00]

Guys im thinking about upgrading my cooling sistem, any thoughts and reviews on Pro design Hi Flow impeller, what i dont understand, why does it say it slows water flow? Its called mega flow water impeller, should it increase water flow?? Im confused  ?? Also i will buy a oversized aluminum radiator

Edited June 13, 2017 by EaCastillo00

[rjdgriff]

Guys im thinking about upgrading my cooling sistem, any thoughts and reviews on Pro design Hi Flow impeller ?? Also i will buy a oversized aluminum radiator

Most of the time, over sized rad is not needed. I like the oem impeller set up


Giving away "TSS" for FREE!!!

[spurdy]

Guys im thinking about upgrading my cooling sistem, any thoughts and reviews on Pro design Hi Flow impeller, what i dont understand, why does it say it slows water flow? Its called mega flow water impeller, should it increase water flow?? Im confused  ?? Also i will buy a oversized aluminum radiator

Stock impeller flows well enough. Many of the after market impellers are made with cheap shafts and the seal will wear a groove in the shaft and then leak coolant into the clutch cover.

 

Larger radiators will help some in cooling but the stock set up will be fine if your motor is tuned right. Most of the time an overheated motor is a sign that something isn't tuned right. At least on a stock cylinder motor.

 

 

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[n2otoofast4u]

Guys im thinking about upgrading my cooling sistem, any thoughts and reviews on Pro design Hi Flow impeller, what i dont understand, why does it say it slows water flow? Its called mega flow water impeller, should it increase water flow?? Im confused  ?? Also i will buy a oversized aluminum radiator

Pressure, velocity, volume........ All 3 different things.

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[EaCastillo00]

10 hours ago, n2otoofast4u said:

 

Pressure, velocity, volume........ All 3 different things.

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3 different things but will the set up give me improved cooling, i dont have any overheating problems, but i  wish to have better cooling as in to feel more secured that my bike wont get too hot when climbing up mountains where sometimes you cant go to fast, and air wont be flowing through the radiator

[hoppedupandcutdown]

12 hours ago, EaCastillo00 said:

 Pro design Hi Flow impeller, what i dont understand, why does it say it slows water flow?

Where did you read that?

[EaCastillo00]

57 minutes ago, hoppedupandcutdown said:

Where did you read that?

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=331718869972&category=43977&pm=1&ds=0&t=1497323472562

[hoppedupandcutdown]

It funny, their page doesn't say anything like that

http://www.prodesignracing.com/main.htm

But, I also believe faster moving coolant is counter productive. It needs to stay in the radiator to cool.

That's why thermostats' job is two-fold. Another well argued topic. And Banshee ain't got one anyway.

[ginger]

there is a balance point with coolant systems and flow.  too fast, and it doesn't dissipate the heat, to slow and it doesn't turn the water around fast enough to get rid of the heat. 

 

That's why on say a small block Chevy, they run a reduction pulley the higher the RPM you plan on running the more the reduction so the flow rate says at the optimum performance.  

 

I also deal with some thermal dynamics at work. lol

[blowit]

Water pump engineering is tricky work to get right, even at static rpms.  With a PTO driven pump off of an engine, the pump performance becomes highly variable with rpm.  

 

The target flow rates of any proper pumping system employed for thermal transfer is the turbulent flow threshold.  However, this flow rate target may only be achieved in certain ports, and the radiator cores may be too small have any appreciable gain from turbulent flow.  In short, the radiator cores are purposely designed to limit flow rate based on ideal differential pressures.  The theory of "slower water works better" is not supported by any engineering practice.  In fact, higher turbulent flow will always perform better.  However, there is a point of "diminishing returns" for  too much flow rate as this just eats up power to run a pump.  

I guess I could go on all day about thermal transfer but we helped an aftermarket company design their radiators.  They were good at making them, not so good at calculating the thermal exchange.  You have to look at the thermal conductivity of the radiator (Aluminum), the fluid, the thermal mass, surface area, air temps, etc, etc.  A radiator is just as variable as anything else in the system.  

 

What does this jargin boil down to?  In the Banshee, we design to ensure the pump does not have significant "slip" which is basically power lost that only generates MORE heat.  We target higher operating pressures and proper impeller filling, which will eliminate cavitation.  

 

When you look at a pump curve, there is always a pressure/flowrate comparison, and it became obvious that in auto industry, "high flow" seems to be the trendy term(we even use it), but "high pressure" is typically more ideal. Why?  I will use just an example.  If the stock Banshee pump can do say 2gpm at 0ft of head pressure, that flow rate could drop to a poopy .5gpm at only 10ft of head pressure.  So when looking at the "flow rate" of a pump, you must always consider the pressures too.  

And when it comes down to flow velocity, it doesn't care about pressure, but without pressure(differential pressure really), you cannot get efficient flow across the radiator.

 

 

Brandon

Mull Engineering 

 

 

 

 

[BrockMoto]

What he said

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[EaCastillo00]

On 6/13/2017 at 0:40 PM, blowit said:

Water pump engineering is tricky work to get right, even at static rpms.  With a PTO driven pump off of an engine, the pump performance becomes highly variable with rpm.  

 

The target flow rates of any proper pumping system employed for thermal transfer is the turbulent flow threshold.  However, this flow rate target may only be achieved in certain ports, and the radiator cores may be too small have any appreciable gain from turbulent flow.  In short, the radiator cores are purposely designed to limit flow rate based on ideal differential pressures.  The theory of "slower water works better" is not supported by any engineering practice.  In fact, higher turbulent flow will always perform better.  However, there is a point of "diminishing returns" for  too much flow rate as this just eats up power to run a pump.  

I guess I could go on all day about thermal transfer but we helped an aftermarket company design their radiators.  They were good at making them, not so good at calculating the thermal exchange.  You have to look at the thermal conductivity of the radiator (Aluminum), the fluid, the thermal mass, surface area, air temps, etc, etc.  A radiator is just as variable as anything else in the system.  

 

What does this jargin boil down to?  In the Banshee, we design to ensure the pump does not have significant "slip" which is basically power lost that only generates MORE heat.  We target higher operating pressures and proper impeller filling, which will eliminate cavitation.  

 

When you look at a pump curve, there is always a pressure/flowrate comparison, and it became obvious that in auto industry, "high flow" seems to be the trendy term(we even use it), but "high pressure" is typically more ideal. Why?  I will use just an example.  If the stock Banshee pump can do say 2gpm at 0ft of head pressure, that flow rate could drop to a poopy .5gpm at only 10ft of head pressure.  So when looking at the "flow rate" of a pump, you must always consider the pressures too.  

And when it comes down to flow velocity, it doesn't care about pressure, but without pressure(differential pressure really), you cannot get efficient flow across the radiator.

 

 

Brandon

Mull Engineering 

 

 

 

 

Lord jesus thanks for your reply! But could you simplify things a little bit please? Just to get things straight, will the "hi flow" impeller, and the oversized aluminum radiator work? Will they improve cooling?

[ginger]

He basically said they all call it "high flow" but its actually just more pressure in the system.  it will improve cooling lol.  

[blowit]

Sorry, I can only speak for our own impeller product, but we tested several competitor pumps and the proof was in the testing.  Our pump just out performs.  But I am not here to toot our business horn, just saying we did things DIFFERENT for a reason!  We might have a small idea how to design a water pump.  

Now, relate this back to what I said earlier.  flow rate vs pressure.  If you take two pumps that move 10gpm at 0ft of head, the only other factor to determine which is best is the power used to run that pump.  However, lets say you take those two pumps and restrict them so they are now pushing 10ft of head pressure.  One pump drops to 5gpm, the other drops to 8gpm, who do you think is winning that one?  

Do you possibly see where "high flow" comes in?  You might look at the 8gpm and say, OH, it flows more, its better.  BUT, the reason is the pump is MORE EFFICIENT, has less slip, less heat generation, and can continue to move more fluid at high head pressures.  If our pump can maintain higher pressures, it automatically pumps more fluid, you get more turbulent flow, and more cooling!!  BUT, again, there are a LOT of variables in the cooling system.  You grab our pumps and then throw in an  80% mix of Ethylene Glycol and you will still have problems.  

How does this relate back to your engine???  Your engine has restriction in the cooling system PLUS we want HIGHER PRESSSURE in the coolant system as this raises the boiling point of the fluid which reduces flash boiling in the cylinders.  Our pump is designed to reduce the nasty losses you see in the OEM pump and other aftermarkets.  Some really feel moving water is moving water. I would say go talk to NASCAR engineers about that.  You want to pump just enough fluid and at high enough pressure, and you want to use the least amount of power to do it!

 

 

On short, yes, a properly designed impeller will help you cool better, and yes, a bigger radiator will CERTAINLY help cool better.  BUT, what royally pisses me off is how radiators are marketed as just "bigger"....  I should quantify my statement that a "higher energy capacity" radiator will help.  You want to know how many fins per inch, how thick, etc, etc.  

 

Just more TMI, a radiator's ability to "cool" is really its ability to dissipate heat.  Heat is energy.  Heat moves from high temp to low temp using variables such as differential temp or dT, and thermal conduction properties.  As the air temp goes up, your radiator LOSES how many BTUs it can dissipate.  You can either boost the air through it, lower the demand on it, or lower the water temp in it.  Example, water temp is running about 200F, air temp is 70F.  dT=130F.  Riding on a hot day in the sand water is still trying to run about 200F, air is now 110F, dT drops to 90F.  That is a big problem when you run the math!  You just lost 30% of your cooling capacity!

 

I will stop here for now.  

 

 

[Man-O-Steele]

Take my money